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Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines

Turkey Arctotherium Offline
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(05-13-2019, 10:26 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:
(04-20-2019, 08:07 PM)Spalea Wrote: @Shadow :

About #1076: Agree with you... 25% larger than the modern lions is a pretty vague assertion. But if this increase is affected into the three dimensions, (1,25)exp 3 = 1,95 (1,953125 exactly)

So with a normal male lion, 200 kilos, we get 390 kilos for the American lion.  With a big lion, 220 kilos, 430 kilos...

We recognize here the Wikipedia estimations:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_lion

But they also mention a 523 kilos estimation. With this method we get this weight from an actual 270-kilos lion. I don't know what to think about it and believe it's a little bit overrated.

A 600-kilos big cat ? The most biggest lion ever caught in wild weighed 313 kilos. From this exceptional specimen we get a 610-kilos American lion. We are allowed to dream...

This is for all the posters in this conversation.

The estimation of 25% larger came probably from the size of the body, not the weight, as the first reports of it came only from comparison of fossils and until 1993 there was no weight estimation in any document. So using weights is incorrect.  

Wikipedia is not reliable in this case, the simple reason is that the "guy" that put that quote just copy-paste that part about the weight of Panthera atrox and did not made any effort to check the source of that estimation. In fact, the article that he quotes as a source of the 523 kg (Implications of Diet for the Extinction of Saber-Toothed Cats and American Lions) did not make ANY weight calculation, in fact they are just quoting the old figures from Anyonge from 1993:

*This image is copyright of its original author


It is well known that the figures from Anyonge are overestimations and are not reliable, so there is NO American "lion" of over 500 kg, that is for sure. Sadly, NOBODY had correct this in Wikipedia, I tried but it was reverted, I put the reason why and it was erased, so it seems that a "fan" is taking control of that page. At least they had updated the fact that this great cats are not "lions - leo" but a species of its own, altough related with modern lions.

Now, what happen with the other source, can you ask? Well, lets check:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Simple, it just a list of animals in the area, there is no weight estimations on it.

So this is how the myths started, this is how missinfomation begins. A "guy" from Wikipedia edited what he want to believe and then many other people in internet start copy-paste that without taking the time of read and research the papers that they use.

At 2019, the heaviest/newest estimation for Panthera atrox remain to be 351 kg (Christiansen & Harris, 2009), maybe up to 370 kg using the largest specimen available from California. There is other estimation from other paper also from 2009 of over 470 kg, and althoug they used the formulas of Christiansen & Harris (2005), they only used the length and the circunference and the results are not "weighted", interestingly the results of that study was that the heaviest Panthera atrox was of less than 340 kg, using all the formulas available together. Panthera spelaea fossilis is bigger in the skull department, and although there is an estimation of almoust 370 kg in a previous study (using dentition), I do believe that is a perfect candidate for a cat of 400 kg, and this point of view is supported by Dr Helmut Hemmer in his document "The story of the cave lion - Panthera Leo Spelaea (Goldfuss, 1810) - A review". 

It is interesting that the body dimentions of the biggest liger actually measured by Guinness and the largest Panthera atrox/spelaea-fossilis match each other, but the weigth of 418 kg of "Hercules" is from its fat (they say that is not obese, but we can see it is), so is logical to conclude that a meager similar sized cat will weight less.
So,2012's study come from 1993(Anyong)?
https://markgelbart.wordpress.com/2019/01/06/2-new-studies-of-pleistocene-lions/
https://markgelbart.wordpress.com/2017/01/31/panthera-atrox-the-1007-pound-giant-lion/
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Arctotherium - 05-17-2019, 03:18 PM
Sabertoothed Cats - brotherbear - 06-11-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Sabertoothed Cats - peter - 06-11-2016, 04:28 PM
Ancient Jaguar - brotherbear - 01-04-2018, 12:45 AM



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