Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines

[Smilodon-Rex]

(11-26-2018, 09:08 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(11-26-2018, 08:46 AM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote:

(11-23-2018, 04:41 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(11-23-2018, 04:21 AM)tigerluver Wrote:

(11-23-2018, 01:17 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:

(11-22-2018, 09:21 AM)johnny rex Wrote:

(11-21-2018, 09:16 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Based on the femur length to skull ratios of extant tigers, I would say the Padang specimen. 

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The average femur length (FL)/condylobasal length (CBL) from the above is 1.23. If we use the lower 426 mm CBL value from post #989 we'd get a femur length of 523 mm. Now the more exceptional a skull, the more we have to think about the possibility of the FL/CBL ratio being closer to 1 rather than what is in extant tigers. Even then, 490-500 mm femur would be in the realm of possibility, thus outsizing the Ngandong femur no matter which way one looks at it.

I see, what do you think of WaveRider's previous statement on the largest skull of prehistoric Panthera leo? He stated "I estimate the equivalent greatest length of skull of the largest Panthera (leo) spelaea individuals unearthed to date I am aware likely at around 500 mm and possibly even 510 mm for a couple of them, therefore approaching the size of the largest Panthera (leo) fossilis specimen known to date (the 192 mm MT3 individual from Chateau) for which I currently estimate with some necessary caution given the extreme size of this metapodial and the kind of bone it is a likely equivalent greatest length of skull in the region of 520 mm (most likely range 500-535 mm and with a 95% Confidence Interval even clearly higher then that).



WaveRiders"

Thoughts?

Dunno, but sound quite dubious to me that Cave lion's skull to rival the largest Cave bear and SF bear.

Also, WaveRiders seemed to refuse to share any of his share of information with us.

I discussed that metapodial in the cave lion thread recently. It is certainly gigantic. The main debatable point is proportions. Extrapolations from one bone to another, especially between different species, comes with a bag of salt. That's why I try to avoid the topic as much as possible. The rest as @GrizzlyClaws stated, we can't say anything as there's no record of them in any form. Dr. Marciszak knows the history of the cave lions' remains inside out and he's yet to make a mention of such.

On that old fragment, there's too much uncertainty in faunal level, range, and morphology. It lies right at the boundary of tiger and cave lion. In post #140 @GuateGojira linked to our old discussions a lifetime ago. The photos unfortunately do not show anymore, but maybe @GuateGojira could repost them if he has them saved somewhere.

I do remember you once stated that the Cromerian lion specimen with the 192 mm MT3 should have a skull in between 450 - 500 mm, but more precisely around the same league with the Chateau giant with 484.7 mm skull. Hence, the largest earlier transitional Panthera spelaea with 475 mm was indeed close to that level as well.

BTW, I think that Waverider has also mixed up the fact that the 192 mm MT3 wasn't from Chateau, but from Central Europe.

500mm skull may belonged to the Panthera (leo) fossil and Panthera (leo) spelaea's population transition? I remember that the 475mm skull also owns some Panthera fossil's characters, basis on these, I just simply analyse whether the supersize Panthera spelaea was the last gigantic Panthera fossil or not? 

BTW, as far as I'm concerned that some of the gigantic Panthera spelaea's specimens also from Central Europe in earlier period,  while in Western Europe, Panthera spelaea's size looks smaller, but on the contrary, Panthera fossil has the largest population at the same region like 484mm skull from France

The 475 mm skull belonged to the earlier Panthera spelaea population with some Panthera fossilis characteristics.

The late Panthera spelaea population got proportionally broader snout, but the maximum size of its skull was only as large as the specimen 2900-3.

 Perhaps if Panthera spelaea could survive up to nowadays, it could looks just modern Asiatic lion's size. compared with Panthera atrox, Panthera spelaea could more able to narrow the self body-size.

 

*This image is copyright of its original author

@tigerluver , could you help me to download and copy the paper ? I would appreciate it if you could help me Reply