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Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines

Guatemala GuateGojira Offline
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(08-01-2018, 08:11 AM)genao87 Wrote:
(07-06-2018, 08:17 AM)Smilodon-Rex Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author

Giants of Ice Age——American Lion&Smilodon designed by myself
 @GrizzlyClaws ,  Smilodon populator's size may just equivalent to modern big tiger's subspecies, however, they still heavier than modern lions and tigers, and can also grow into 400 kg. Moreover, Smilodons have the more powerful body than modern lions and tigers since they born.
 American Lions also have the more powerful body than modern felines too, be different from Smilodons, American Lions are taller and their heads are bigger. 
    Here are the bodysize's range of few prehistoric big cats:
Smilodon populator——from 420 to 430 kg
Amphimachairodus giganteus——it may the biggest machairodontinae in history, according to the estimates of 460 mm skull, the weight limit may achieves  450 kg
American lion——from 450 to 465 kg  
Eurasia Cave lion——from 430 to 450 kg
Mosbach lion——from 450 to 493 kg
Ngandong tiger——from 350 to 370 kg
Natodomeri lion——from 350 to 370kg

wait whut??  where did these figures came from?  since the Ngandong Tiger shrunk???    where are sources and fossils that made these the latest and correct figures??

Those weights are incorrectly quoted. Check this:

* Smilodon populator: Sorkin gives a weight of 470 kg, but latter Christiansen and Harris (2005) provided a maximum weight of c.360 kg for the biggest specimen analyzed in the study, with a posible upper figure of 400 kg for the larger specimens (like the one in Paris Museum). This last figure is quoted by Anton (2013).

* Amphimachairodus giganteus: There are no estimations available, but based in the giant skull of 415 mm of Machairodus horribilis the posible maximum weight is of 405 kg (Tao et al., 2015), however this is using the equation of Van Valkenburg (1990), which provides overestimations, from my point of view, and depends to much of the length of the skull, independently of the robustness of the specimen. This animal was large, but probably a weight between 300-350 kg seems more plausible.

* American lion (Panthera atrox): Anyonge (1993) produced weights of over 500 kg for this species, but his results are unreliable and are proved to be gross overestimations. Sorkin (2009) estimated a weight of 420 kg, but he used only one speciment, ignoring the intraespecific variation of the species, thus is unreliable. Latter Christiansen & Harris (2009) calculated a largest weight of 351 kg, using the same method of Sorkin but with more specimens of lions, tigers and jaguars, producing a better calculation. Wheeler & Jefferson (2009) calculated a maximum of 332 kg, using the average of the results of all the equations used, however the figure of 478 kg obteined by the equation of the femora midshaft, in fact is not using the "weighted" method and also we must take in count the fact that the results of the equations of Christiansen & Harris (2005) must be used together and not separatelly, as will produce biased results. It seems that a maximum weight of 350-360 kg seems more reliable. For details check the link: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-america...hera-atrox - post No. 13.

* Eurasian Cave lion: With Panthera spelaea, no calculations of such a large weights is reported, Hemmer (2011) report an extreme weight up to 400 kg. I have not the full document at hand, so I don't know the method he used or if he is quoting other studies, but with skulls with greatest length of c.450 mm, such a weight is not completelly out of question. Smaller males from Yakutia and Alaska were of the same size than modern lions and tigers, so probably a figure of 250 - 270 kg is more reliable.

* Mosbach lion: This must be the Panthera (spelaea) fossilis species. The maximum weight that I have saw in litterature is of 367 kg (Guzvika, 1998). However with skulls as large as c.480 mm, this is the perfet candidate for a maximum of 400 kg, appart from Smilodon populator.

* Ngandong tiger: In the case of Panthera tigris soloensis, Hertler & Volmer (2008) calculated a maximum weigh of 470 kg using the largest fossil available (femur of 480 mm in length), but they used the formula of Anyonge (1993) which is unreliable. Latter Volmer et al. (2016) reduced the weight to only 298 kg using the formula of femur length of Christiansen & Harris (2005), however the problem is that they only used the length and not the girth and other measurements and also the figure is not "weighted", so but values are unreliable (one to high and other too low). Using the equation of Sorkin (2009) but with the method of Christiansen & Harris (2009), which is using many specimens, I got a figure of 368 kg. The forum of the Russian guys and Roman Uchitel webpage estimated a figure of 350 kg. 

* Natodomeri lion: For the moment there is no official figure for this giant lion, but definitelly is over 300 kg.

Hope this helps to clarify the case.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GuateGojira - 09-06-2018, 05:44 AM
Sabertoothed Cats - brotherbear - 06-11-2016, 11:59 AM
RE: Sabertoothed Cats - peter - 06-11-2016, 04:28 PM
Ancient Jaguar - brotherbear - 01-04-2018, 12:45 AM



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