WildFact
›
Premier Section
›
Edge of Extinction
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
|
ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris)
|
WOLVERINE
1 - Vadim Gorbatov I found the peintings of Vadim Gorbatov many years ago and posted the one with the bear and the tiger on the other forum. Here's it is:  *This image is copyright of its original author 2 - The book of J.W. Jankowski I scanned pages 49 and 50. As they were long, I needed 3 scans for every page. 2a - Page 49  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author 2b - Page 50  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author 3 - Translation I know it is a lot of work Wolverine, but it would be much appreciated if you could find the time to translate both pages. The reason is that many readers are unable to use the translator. 4 - Tiger Uporny Thanks for the video. I didn't know that Uporny was largely eaten by his killer. It seems he was eaten from back to front. This, again, underlines that his killer was another tiger. I don't know why he didn't start with the boar, but I do know that Uporny was killed on a cold day. Maybe the boar was frozen. During the mating season, fights between male tigers are common and fierce. At times, they are deadly. When one of the two is killed, his body often is mutilated by his killer. Every now and then, the winner also eats a part of his opponent. Cannibalism in big cats is not unusual. The video shows that Uporny had grown significantly after his release. I think the tiger in this photograph is Uporny. It most probably was taken when he was much younger:  *This image is copyright of its original author
Here is the title page (on the top) and 1st page of Jankovski's book "Tiger, deer and jenshen" as wanted Peter :
https://www.litmir.me/bd/?b=181911 1st page https://www.litmir.me/br/?b=181911 In pages 49 and 50 describing the giant Sungari tiger there is nothing about bear-tiger conflict. Its only shortly written that a tiger had pulled out from the houl in the tree an Asiatic black bear and ate it almost compleetely: "А Арсений недавно следил крупного «кота» целый день и к вечеру нашел — знаешь что? В дупле липы берлогу медведя-муравьятника. И остатки самого мишки: тигр его вытащил из дупла и сожрал почти целиком." There is one other interesting passage concerning fate of the giant tiger skin: "Очищенные кости, почти по цене пантов, взяли китайские аптекари; шкура украсила роскошную гостиную семейства Бринер в Харбине. А огромный череп с желтоватыми клыками — с большой палец каждый — Шин подарил другу юности — моему отцу. В его богатой коллекции рогов, клыков и черепов этот занял самое почетное место." "Chinese pharmasists got cleared bones, Bryner family placed the wonderful skin in their official hall in Harbin. And the giant skull with welowish teeth - with the size of big finger each - Shin gave to my father - his friend from the youth. In his rich collections of horns, teeth and skulls it occupy the most prestigious place". Bryner family was a rich business family in Tcarist Russia having German-Swiss origins, so they got the skin of Sungari giant, but in China later on power came communists and is not clear what happened with that skin. @peter this is what says the young ranger in the video who discovered the body of Uporni: "We are on the place of accident... we discovered the corps of wild boar.... adult boar...and a tiger with most probable name "Uporni"... radio collered neck.... with eaten back part of the body..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrNsht7WXLk
WOLVERINE
Thanks again for the translation. I've some questions about the information you posted. 1 - As to the remains of the Himalayan bear they found. Was that bear killed by the Sungari river tiger or another tiger? If it was killed by the Sungari tiver tiger, it means the hunters had been at his trail for some time before they found him. 2 - In his book, Jankowski wrote the tiger was skinned before he was cut to 9 pieces. I assume that the 'Japanese' hunter who skinned the tiger most probably was the Korean professional hunter Sin-En-Tschzhin? 3 - Jankowski confirmed the skin was 11.6 (350,52 cm.), but later apparently said it was over 3.75 m. (...). That's a difference of 25 cm. (about 10 inches). If it really was 375 cm., it means the skin was 12 feet and 4 inches, and not 11.6. I wonder what kind of tape was used (inches or cm.). A fresh (unprepared) skin of 12.4 would fit a tiger nearly twice the weight of an average adult male Amur tiger. If it was that long, the tiger would have been close in size when measured 'over curves'. 4 - The skin went to the Bryner family in Harbin (northeastern China). After World War Two, Mao came to power. What happened to the Bryners? Could the skin be in one of the large Institutes in Harbin? 5 - I'm very interested in the skull. If correct, Jankowski's father got it from his old friend, the Korean hunter Sin-En-Tschzhin (the hunter in the photograph). This means it's likely that the Jankowski's still have the skull. How find out more? What would you suggest? 6 - The video shows a quite large male Amur tiger lying on his belly in the snow. He must have been surprised and killed in seconds. This is why they didn't find signs of a struggle. It was an execution. The photograph of the autopsy posted before (watch the faces of those present) suggests the damage must have been considerable. Male Amur tigers are not as heavy as male Ussuri brown bears, but my guess is that an average male brown bear surprised in a similar way also wouldn't stand much of a chance, provided the tiger gets a good grip right away. If not, chances are there will be a struggle. If both are average in size, the margins could be small. I slightly favour the more robust bear, but both know they can kill each other. There's a big difference between an ambush and a fair struggle. Talking about a fair struggle. Sysoev is one of the few who could have witnessed a fight between a young adult male tiger and a Schatun. In his story ('Amba'), the bear won, but it was a close call. Sysoev's book ('The Northern Jungle', if correct), is next on the list. It was published in 1960 or thereabout. (02-27-2018, 04:18 PM)peter Wrote: WOLVERINEThe bear pulled out of the tree has been killed by another tiger, not by giant we talked. This case is described also in page 50 but in the bottom where starts another chapter of the book. Bryner family later immigrated to United States, one of them - Yul Bryner even became a famous actor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yul_Brynner That's all I know. 
Here is the title page and the last page of Jankovski father book (in Russian) "Half century tiger hunting" as Peter wanted. In the last page there are a lot of photos of tigers that could be posted by somebody in the forum:
http://www.rulit.me/author/yankovskij-yurij-mihajlovich/polveka-ohoty-na-tigrov-download-free-376086.html photos: http://www.rulit.me/books/polveka-ohoty-na-tigrov-read-376086-70.html That book by my opinion is even more interesting, less dialogs between people and could be particulary interesting for those who are interested in Amur leopards. The book initially was published in Harbin in only 500 copies. 
Wolverine
What does he speaks about the Amur leopard in his book? If I read old book written by hunters, all of them were written it as the Korean leopard. "The Tiger's Claw" written by Mary Linley Taylor. She wrote the Korean leopard instead of the Amur leopard. A thing was that the Amur leopard in Korea was also known as different from today's Amur leopard in Russia. Do you know how many books were written by Yankovsky? I would buy and read all of those books.  *This image is copyright of its original author Who caught the Sungari river tiger? It says the Korean hunter name Sin En Tschzin (신용진) and Yankovsky hunted this tiger together. I remember Yankovsky was impressed by hunters in Korea, because Korean hunters are catching tigers with outdated rifle. A few of those best Korean hunters actually hunted together (or may helped) along with Barclay when he was in Korea. I never heard of this hunter name 신용진 even though I know some of the best hunters in Korea in 1900.
@peter here is a translation of the second and most dramatic part of the chapter. As you can see there is only one word for bear mentioned in the text:
"He holded on his shoulder long Japanese arisaka (gun) ready to be used. Uithout moving his eyes from the strange item Shin specially found under his feet a dry brunch and pressed on it. After the noise of broken brunch spread around the stange item became as alive: a gigantic red-black colored head got out through the grass and slowly turn in his direction: "Who dear to diturb tha sleep of the the Lord of Far Easterm jungles"? The predator had so high self esteem it was so get used to the fear of every beast and humans that even didn't consider the option to stand up. He looked aggressively to the distant human figure but didn't see the top ot the gun directed on him. The tiger has been eaten well (not hungry) that was even lazy to roar on the stupid human been. But tiny 6 mm gun (bullet) suddenly burned his body from aside. Shin says: the tiger roared with terrific power, fell aside, than immediately jumped and with tree jumps rich the forest desapearing among it. For some time could be heard a noise of broken branches, buches and everything became quite. AT THE PLACE TIGER WAS RESTING SHIN FOUND A BLOOD, NEXT TO IT - A BIG HEAD AND BEAR'S PAW: OBVIOUSLY THE LORD HAS BEEN RESTING AFTER BIG BREAKFAST. Such a large traices, do you understand I have never seen - with the size of my hat... I would not take the risk to follow the beast in the forest alone, if the tiger is wounded we should follow him all tree of us... There shouldn't be another opinion on that case. A wounded small tiger is dangerous to follow alone even during the winter when you have unobstructed view. But during the summer in the dence vegetation is equal to suicide We quiqly had a breakfast and were preparing to get out of the tent but than suddenly a obstacle arise - Pak was so terrified that he refused to stay alone in the tent, the fear of aboriginal tiger from wounded tigers is so big. ...... here follows a long conversation between people how they should hunt down the tiger............................. The size of the that beast's traises could terrify every tiger hunter. Such a big traices we have never sow in our lives. We were standing on the edge of the meadow and high wall of the forest but didn't have desire to go further. A black blood has polluted the leafs of wild grapes tree, half-crushed and smashed by the gigantic body. It was 11 am. The sun was burning, large insects were everywhere around and were feeding on the blood but we still stand undecisevely at same place. At last we started moving, shoulder next to shoulder, with guns in our hands as a military unit. On the left side was Valentin, in the centre - me and on the left side - Shin. Pak was beside us with the Browning gun in his hands. The forest was so dence, packed by lianas that at some places we could see to more than a few steps ahead. It was hard to find worse place. We entered in damp half-darkness. "With one jump this monster could smach all of us together. We would just mot have enough time spread around in case of attack in such a dense vegetation" - I thought for myself and probably same thoughts had all of us. ............................................................. There he is!!! - whispered Valentin. He first noticed the beast. Our view was obstructed by low branch of pine but for short Valentin it was easier to see beneath the branch. -Where? - shot it - we said together. Pak was beside us as a dead. Than in the last moment when I looked in the direction of Valentin's gun I saw a redish siluet and in that moment I heard the noise of bullet. We with Shin were ready with our fingers on the guns but there was no need to make a shot, the beast didn't make any movement. Valentin's bullet succeeded to penetrate the mighty neck of the tiger, the wound was so small that even blood was not visible, the beast was dead as mummy. Here tiger made his final jump and fell. And here already dead he was lying until our arrival. The small bullet of Shin's arisaki gun had made the deadly job. (mean that actually tiger was deadly wounded earlier by Shin, described in the first part of the chapter) We have seen a lot of tigers during our life but never something similar. Super powerfull male with gigantic dimentions. We, four guys seat on his back as on sofa.... 9 guys brought the dead tiger..... We didn't succeed to measure whole body, so part by part it measured at least 350 kg.... the Japaneese guy measured the skin from the nose to the tail in the yard. It was 11 and a half feet - more than 3 and 3/4 meters. Chinese pharmasists got cleared bones, Bryner family placed the wonderful skin in their official hall in Harbin. And the giant skull with welowish teeth - with the size of big finger each - Shin gave to my father - his friend from the youth. In his rich collections of horns, teeth and skulls it occupy the most prestigious place" End of the chapter @
Wolverine
Yes, I know Yankovsky family. Yankovsky and all his family were seized and taken back to Russia in 1945 when Soviets entered Korea. Their family members were separated after 1945. Valery Yankovsky was in the Korean news when I was in high school. Valery Yankovsky believed Korea as his homeland along with Russia because he lived in Korea for a long time. Thus, he wanted to visit Korea. There are actually many Russians in Korea. George Yankovsky also caught another gigantic tiger in Manchuria. This tiger was 396 cm long, but there is no photo of this tiger.  (03-01-2018, 01:22 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Is the story "Amba" in book form? Would Sysoev be the author? Amba" ? It's the Siberian name given to the tiger, the tiger's name which even the hunters pronounce by whispering... I remember to have seen the movie "Dersou Ouzala" by Akira Kurozawa, from the book of Vladimir Arseniev. Amba, the tiger, fearsome spirit of the forest... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dersu_Uzala_(1975_film)  (03-01-2018, 02:27 PM)Spalea Wrote:(03-01-2018, 01:22 PM)brotherbear Wrote: Is the story "Amba" in book form? Would Sysoev be the author? In Dersu's world, the tiger was 'Amba'. The Udege also use this word. The short story named 'Amba', however, was written by Sysoev. It was first posted by 'Grahh' from AVA in the thread 'Male bears are not our of the predatory reach of tigers if of similar size' (the title could be slightly different). Last time I visited AVA, it was still there. Sysoev's story is about a male tiger. The tiger was robbed more than once by a brown bear. As the bear was very large, he was unable to do anything about it. When another, smaller, bear also tried to rob the tiger, a fight erupted. As the description was very detailed, my guess is that Sysoev could have seen a fight between a brown bear and a tiger himself. I once read he saw four, but that seems unlikely. Anyhow. The brown bear, an emaciated 'Schatun', won the fight and killed the tiger. Although written in Russian, there is an English version. I'll try to find it, but it might take a while. In the meantime, my advice is to buy 'Dersu the Trapper - A True Account by V.K. Arseniev'. The first English edition was published in 1941 by E.P. Dutton & Co (New York). A new version was published in 1968. In 1996, an edition translated by Malcolm Burr was published. This is the one I bought (ISBN 0-929701-50-X or 0-929701-49-6). Highly recommended:  *This image is copyright of its original author
(03-01-2018, 07:16 PM)Polar Wrote: Here's an interesting artistic collage depiction of Uporny's life by WWF: Well done and interesting. Thanks for posting it. |
| Users browsing this thread: |
| 31 Guest(s) |