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Overrated size of Munna aka Langda of Kanha National Park
Overrated size of Munna aka Langda of Kanha National Park
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Overrated size of Munna aka Langda of Kanha National Park
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Ok so this is just a follow up topic for Pckts and myself to discuss and shed some light on reality because the people Pckts has been quoting are the same people that make absurd claims about tiger sizes and most of these "in the know" are actually people that followed most of my and Tiger_Lover's work on the original AVA.
I'll put some up pictures, tell me if you still find their opinion reliable after looking at them. 
Could you please make an introduction about who is Munna and what is what Pckts is saying about him?
When I first see this post, I simple don't understand the point of it. Information please. [img]images/smilies/huh.gif[/img]
Name : MU1=Langda=Langru=Munna=Meadow male
Location : Kanha National Park Year of Birth : 2003 Ancestry : Son of Old Mukki male and Minkur female, Brother of Pattewala male Status : Live Sex : Male Species : panthera tigris tigris Due to his preferred terrain and striking facial markings which says “CAT” in his forehead, Munna is perhaps the most photographed and most easily recognisable tiger in the Kanha Park today. He had battled his way to dominance, which at times has led to injury. He spends most of his time in meadows, but his territory ranges from Chattapathara to Bamni Dadar to Neelamullah to Link 9 to Kanhaghat to Naktighati. His rise to dominance was tough and included many fights particularly during 2005 and 2006 when he was consolidating his area. In one of the fights he sustained a leg injury giving him a limp, hence Langda or the limping one. This has healed almost completely now and he is now in complete control of his territory.  *This image is copyright of its original author Credits to Apollo for the work, there you go Guate. that should help [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img] 
Copters initially said munna was smaller than Pattewala and Naak Kata male, but munna is specifically said by eye witness accounts to be much larger. Even the FB page for Kahna Tigers said it in response to my question. I will post everything that has been said below.
Here was Copters response to my question which started my investigation What is the size difference between Pattewala and Munna? Who was the larger tiger, munna? Pattewala was the heavier male by quiet a margin, Munna's size was never great but what he lacked in size, He made up for it with strength and dominance. Kariya Ghatti and Munna are probably two of the smallest males from Kanha. I posted the following findings "Munna - Large male from Kanha Tiger Reserve'' http://wildtigerwatch.blogspot.com/2011/...tures.html "This is Munna from Kanha NP, he was considered to be the biggest tiger in the park " From Prathap (he lives in India) "There are big tigers and then there is Munna. A perspective here to see his sheer size. Notice the vehicles in the background are not more than 10 mtrs away. Look at his size as against the size of the gypsies behind."http://indianaturewatch.net/displayimage.php?id=451852 "Munna is the biggest Kanha male i've seen in recent times though, followed by Pattewala male and Langda. It isn't Langda's size that makes him an emperor but his dominance and his unique writings on the forehead which clearly says "CAT". " http://animalvsanimal.yuku.com/topic/500...8a5t7Eysyg Munna killed Konda as well? This is Konda, in Jan 2008, only days before he was killed in a fight. Murderer: Munna. https://www.facebook.com/Kanha.tiger.ide...=3&theater (I must of misread or he took that down, it doesn't say that anymore) and more asianbuffalo1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar "I just checked the stripe, and he's def. Link 7 male Naak kata. The date of the vid is this year, so looks like Naak kata is alive. Anyway, this male is def. a very big male on a par with kzt023 of kaziranga, and only slightly smaller than wagdoh of tadoba. Also, Naak kata is notorious for being a short-tempered male and always picked fight with Munna, but got beaten up badly every time, resulting in his trademark scar nose. You say this male is bigger than Munna?A bit fatter, but not bigger IMO" asianbuffalo1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar "Naak kata is about 9 yo according to what I've been able to find. Munna is 7, turning 8 early next year. according to the photographer who fequents kanha and took pics of both,link 7 male Naak kata is a grumpy tiger who loves picking fight with the dominant male of kanha meadows Munna, but got the s*** beaten outta him EVERYTIME. I have 2 photos back in 09 of Naakata with a newly added injury to his nose after losing a fight with Munna. Munna is barely 4 then, Naak at least 6. So yeah, ...." a guys responseKshitij Degaonkar1 year ago in reply to asianbuffalo "Fatter for sure. I would say longer and taller too. And yes, he is short-tempered! Naak-kata is an old male who has been ruling Kanha even before Munna arrived on the scene as a dominant male. His prominent nose scar was there before Munna established himself as a dominant male so it must have been the result of a battle with some other tiger rather than Munna'. asianbuffalo1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar Naak is 2nd in line after the kanha ruler meadow Munna.One thing I'd like to note is a tiger's weight fluctuates tremendously(60-90kg or more) due to various reasons:stress, food etc.Munna looked really really pathetic in lots of photos due to these, and you might've happened to see him when he's like that, but when he's filled out,he's right there with Naak in size and always his boss in strength. I also replied to your comments on jagroar8309 vid last night, please check if you haven't. Thx! *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original authorprasadgodbole12 years ago Jab kaleja babbar sher ka ho to munna kobhi bahar niklna padta hain  *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original authorasianbuffalo1 year ago in reply to Kshitij Degaonkar ...Naak is no match for Munna. You can tell obviously by looking at head and paw size that Munna is boss of all Kanha tigers. And no, Munna simply can't rule the meadows with guts & valor alone, he has to back it up with serious power coming from sheer size, esp. againts feroiocus guys like Naak. Munna is not a single inch shorter in shoulder height and body length than Naak, a bit leaner but more solid, and overall more powerfully built than Naak. He's a ruler by both size and strength.  *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original authorKshitij Degaonkar1 year ago Also, the thick flab of fat under his belly is very noticeable when he turns to go inside the bushes at the end of the video. By the way, seemed like you had been maintaining enough distance and silence at the start but at the end of the video, there was too much noise of the gypsy vehicle and you seemed to be getting nearer to the tiger. What exactly happened?Lastly from Tigers of Kanha's official Facebook page [list=none] [*]Is munna larger than his brother, Pattewala and the other male that he injured? Nakaa male (sp) I believe.Like · Reply · 9 hrs [list=none] [*]  *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original authorTigers of Kanha At similar shoulder heights, Munna is more heavily built and longer in body length, and therefore quite a bit larger than Pattewala. Naak Kata is similar to Pattewala in height and length, but has a smaller head and not as heavily built as Pattewala, so he's nowhere near Munna's level. Check out these photo of Munna, where you can see his size in contrast to the jeep and the tigress:I have shown numerous quotes here, Im not sure where the "misinformation" is?
Heres the Munna images he is speaking of
 *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author Since the time I came to know about the Link 7 tigress cub killed by a male tiger, I was very curious to see the male, and here it is... The link7 female with the male that had killed the cub. He is huge fellow, people who had seen the link7 tigress know how huge she is and here in the picture one can see she's looking like a cub in camparasion to the male.  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author
Trust me, You don't know what you're talking about because the people you are quoting are a bunch of nobodies. out of everyone you quoted, Kshitij Degaonkar is the only guy that has seen wild tigers in his life and i can confirm this because he used to be under me in the old orkut group back in the days. as far as Asianbuffalo/Minh ha goes, this guy is heavily biased towards Munna and Tiger sizes in general.
Pckts, I have been in the business for 6-7 years to know what I'm talking about. ok let's begin  *This image is copyright of its original author read all the replies of Asianbuffalo, the video uploader or jagroar is a close friend of mine btw.  *This image is copyright of its original author Kshitij has been to Kanha National Park, I can confirm this but he's wrong here with Shivaji/Wagdoh thing. Infact, everyone in the tourism community would name Wagdoh as the biggest male from Central India and the next-ups would be males within Tadoba, I assure you of that. Munna and others don't even compare because they are not in the same league as Wagdoh male.  *This image is copyright of its original author "Munna is capable of reaching 360-410kg in weight" "Munna's big and tall as KZT023" "450-500kg tiger"  *This image is copyright of its original author Overrating Munna's size again and turning him into some Fairytale tiger from fantasies.  *This image is copyright of its original author I agree with Kshitij here, this is exactly what happened in Bandhavgarh. B2's popularity overshadowed Bokha's existence.  *This image is copyright of its original author comparing KZT023 to Katezari male of Tadoba and Jay of Nagzira to KZT023 and KZT085.  *This image is copyright of its original author we have a genius over here LOL  *This image is copyright of its original author all of this is made up and misinformation. Lastly, my point was to show you that you were copy pasting conversations and quotes from the wrong people. I know them all, been there and done that.
I didn't just show buffalo, I showed direct quotes from indiannaturewatch, wild tiger watch , prathap and Kahna tigers.
I never said Munna was larger than any kaziranga tigers or Waghdoh, nor does anything that you showed say they are larger than munna or vice versa. And nothing is said of Patewala or Naak Kataa being larger than Munna. I have showed a couple that said munna is larger than both, though. Lastly, you agree with Kshitij ? Really, they just said bamera is up there with Waghdoh. Which we all know is not true, considering the many eye witnesses who say Waghdoh is far larger than bamera. If anything, Kshitij seems more biased for Bamera than anything else, if he/she is trying to say that bamera is the same size as Waghdoh. Not only that, have they seen Munna, Naak, or Patewala, considering they use the word "surely" and "right up there with" shows that they don't know either. What qualifications do they have that makes you think they know more than anybody else listed?  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author  *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author Obviously he/she is wrong when trying to compare Bamera to Waghdoh, so they are not any more believable than Buffalo, IMO On a side note, I actually have another quote of Munna being the largest tiger in Kahna, and its from you.... Roflcopters writes "Munna is the biggest Kanha male i've seen in recent times though, followed by Pattewala male and Langda. It isn't Langda's size that makes him an emperor but his dominance and his unique writings on the forehead which clearly says "CAT". " http://animalvsanimal.yuku.com/topic/500...8a5t7Eysyg 
I've no opinion on the debate, you guys are the modern tiger tracking experts. The only thing that bothers me about all these estimation from eye witnesses is the "much bigger" phrase. In pictures, all these cats look equally robust, so they're not referring to that. If they're referring to dimensions, no dominant male can be truly "much bigger" than another unless one can differentiate 8 inches (roughly 60 kg of weight difference) accurately from a distance on a moving target without the last tiger in front of him as reference. Just look at Khali, supposedly a giant tiger of modern times in this video. There's a clear size difference, but no dwarfing in dimension (obviously the weight is different story).
(07-18-2014, 03:11 AM)'tigerluver' Wrote: I've no opinion on the debate, you guys are the modern tiger tracking experts. The only thing that bothers me about all these estimation from eye witnesses is the "much bigger" phrase. In pictures, all these cats look equally robust, so they're not referring to that. If they're referring to dimensions, no dominant male can be truly "much bigger" than another unless one can differentiate 8 inches (roughly 60 kg of weight difference) accurately from a distance on a moving target without the last tiger in front of him as reference. Just look at Khali, supposedly a giant tiger of modern times in this video. There's a clear size difference, but no dwarfing in dimension (obviously the weight is different story). You can definitely see difference between robust tigers and not so robust tigers, IMO. Waghdoh looks massive no matter what, in person or film. Patewala, Munna, Bamera, katezari, Jai etc.. Those tigers look huge, tigers like Raja and Shivaji look very muscular but not as bulky, then when you see the gaur hunt video or raja walking infront of the Jeep, you realize how massive they really are. Shivaji is said to be massive as well but looks to be a shorter stockier tiger, so it depends. Thats why I like to take as many eye witness accounts as I can and compare to see if the facts line up. Copters has far more expierence with Tigers than I do, and he knows way more about Indian tiger personalities, but I don't think he has seen any of the Kahna Tigers in person, correct Copters? That is why I prefer to take these eye witness accounts and claims. If you have seen them in person, I would quickly take your word on it. Also, Khali looks far larger in the video. Much more massive, taller and longer. Remember, you aren't talking about differences in feet, but rather inches. So you'll never see a complete mismatch, these tigers need certain size to even attempt to usurp a resident male from a territory. That being said, Waghdoh is always quoted as being untouchable outside of the Kaziranga monsters which I think the unanimous consensus is, they're the largest tigers alive today.
A couple more,
Munna Tiger at Kanha"but when we saw this animal sideways we were stunned by the size. The huge tiger is about 250 KG and dominates the Kanha Park by its sheer size and strength." http://tigersafari.blogspot.com/2013/11/...kanha.html "Kanha National Park is the largest national park in Central India. There is a significant population of leopards, Royal Bengal Tiger and Indian wild dog in Kanha National Park, Madhya Pradesh. Among all animals, one male tiger named munna is very famous. Munna is famous for his large size. He has big head and 'CAT' written on his head. " http://historicaltimeofindia.blogspot.co...adesh.html (07-18-2014, 03:26 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:(07-18-2014, 03:11 AM)'tigerluver' Wrote: I've no opinion on the debate, you guys are the modern tiger tracking experts. The only thing that bothers me about all these estimation from eye witnesses is the "much bigger" phrase. In pictures, all these cats look equally robust, so they're not referring to that. If they're referring to dimensions, no dominant male can be truly "much bigger" than another unless one can differentiate 8 inches (roughly 60 kg of weight difference) accurately from a distance on a moving target without the last tiger in front of him as reference. Just look at Khali, supposedly a giant tiger of modern times in this video. There's a clear size difference, but no dwarfing in dimension (obviously the weight is different story). I know a plenty of people that have seen Munna out in action and no one really thought he was anything more than average, Sure big to some that have never seen Tigers like Wagdoh, Shivaji, Jay, Katezari, Pench's Charger, Raja, Agasthya, Ram, Bamera, B2 etc etc but overall, Munna's size was overrated by many, that is all. I don't want to keep running around the bushes here and Yes, I agree with the last statement. Outside of Nepal/Assam area, Wagdoh is the largest by far.  (07-18-2014, 03:42 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Is this Munna? Yeah thats Munna *This image is copyright of its original author I was just curious about Munna's weight, and this picture opened up a reference point for estimate. I drew a parallel line on both cats and compared the lengths. Munna's 25% longer than the female. Say the female is on the short end (Mazak, 1981) and is 240 cm, Munna would be 300 cm in total length. Applying that to regression derived from both reliable hunting and scientific records I get a mass for Munna of 241 kg. |
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