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Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
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Avoca Male Lions and Their Male Lineage
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 (9 hours ago)NLAL11 Wrote: A brief history of the Southern Avoca male (and his brother). The blog intimates that the other brother died fighting the two Leeubron males over the Hamilton pride. I can’t say I generally like when blogs do this, they don’t have real definitive evidence that the bigger maned S.Avoca died fighting the Leeubron males, yet speak on it as it’s certain. Nonetheless, I have been thinking the same for a while now and even mentioned before how I really doubted the Nkhulus were behind it. Reason for this being, there was no change in behaviour from them, it ended up taking them a while to become fully dominant over the Sand River Pride. Even the remaining S.Avoca was spending some time with that pride after returning from KNP, and was mentioned in a MalaMala report with them. Now, the Nkhulus knew they were facing a coalition of 2 and if they were the ones to kill bigger maned S.Avoca, it made no sense why the takeover was longer than expected, although I’m sure the pride was constantly running from them too. It was almost like they were just as surprised to find the pride now vacant. 
So he is back at Rhino Post, question is would his 2 sons accept him if they bump into each other, as they are territorial males now by the looks of it.
After S.Avocas went nomadic under pressure of Nkhulus, they moved several km from their territory and were seen mating with the Hamilton pride, while not long before the Leeubrons were also seen mating.
That was the last confirmed sighting of the 2 S.Avocas together if I'm not mistaken, later it was said they were seen close to their territory again before the smaller one showed up injured in Sabi Sands, but I don't think this sighting was ever truly 100% confirmed. The larger Leeubron male was photographed with injuries around that time as well. Anyway it was never clear what happened but Leeubrons and Nkhulus were the most likely culprits. Maybe Londolozi got info from Kruger guides about a fight with Leeubrons because often they don't make such statements about who killed who if they aren't sure. You'd think they'd say something like "the larger S.Avoca went missing in Kruger", or at best "it is believed that a clash with Nkhulu or Leeubrons were likely the reason why the larger S.Avoca disappeared", but they straight up said the Leeubrons killed him. 
All - we have seen an extended conversation regarding the name used for a particular lion, which appears to have been put to bed. I am here to ask everyone that we leave it that way. As for the names used for individual lions, folks need to not be bothered by something so trivial, at least until he receives a proper, official, name. I think we all understand that Nkuhuma Male is no longer young, just as many other lion's names do not appear to have been literal at all times, males named Dreadlocks, for instance, do not always have dreads in their manes, or males named Mohawk often do not carry their signature hair style for their entire lives. When someone uses the name NYM, people know exactly who is being referred to, and folks shouldn't get upset by it, until someone finally gives him an official name, I'd imagine, we will likely continue seeing that name used.
As for the rest of this conversation, I am simply going to remind everyone, that personal attacks directed at any member will not be tolerated on this site, especially those made during what appears to have become a heated conversation, over something so pointless. We have lost valuable members of this site, due to senseless and extended arguing, and while we do not wish to see anyone banned, if these things continue, people are going to start getting banned. It needs to stop. I see the conversation has moved on to the more important things, let's keep it that way. As always, thank you for your understanding, and your cooperation. (5 hours ago)Tr1x24 Wrote: So he is back at Rhino Post, question is would his 2 sons accept him if they bump into each other, as they are territorial males now by the looks of it. They haven’t been spotted with that female in a while so that definitely increases Mohawks chances, and that’s assuming he wants to be back with his sons. Very weird how Mohawk left his boys to go back to Nkuhumas and stayed there even while being pressured by PCMs, now with PCMs spending a bit more time in the West, he goes back to KNP. Just like the other S.BDM, they both have very weird movements.
As for Mohawk being accepted, it wouldn't be the first time territorial males have accepted new members.
I remember reading about a coalition I think in Eastern Africa were some older brothers took over a pride and a little later they were joined by their slightly younger brothers. Lions probably cannot rationalize "oh I'm territorial now, I can't accept anyone anymore", if they see a friend they'll likely be friendly, reason why dominant males may not attack their natal pride if they still remembers them. Issue is if Mohawk has a strong enough bond to rejoin or not, he's a father after all, not a brother who formed close bonds since cubhood, he was only sticking around when he got ousted. And it is also doubtful if the NKs are fully territorial at the moment, but considering how one of them stalemated one of the 3 dominant Imbali males, they could very well be. (5 hours ago)Mapokser Wrote: As for Mohawk being accepted, it wouldn't be the first time territorial males have accepted new members. I think u might be on about the Sababora males in Serengeti, the 7 older brothers, after killing Bob Jr, ended up taking his territory but were later joined by their 2 younger brothers. I don’t follow up on that area at all really, but I’m not so sure they were accepted officially as part of the coalition, more so just allowed to stick around up until this point. Possibly similar situation to the younger BRBs being allowed to hang around Rongai Pride, sure they were chased off when they come too close into contact with pride females or cubs, but were seen spending time with their older brothers numerous times. They could have tried to take an adjacent pride and kept them strong bonds but it was clear they were ready to become dominant males, despite their young age, and even chased Lorkulup once. Mohawk will only be accepted if they see him as an asset, they won’t carry dead weight just cos he’s their father. Judging by his time back in Sabi Sands, he still seems to have that dominant side to him. 
The definition of a territorial male is that they dont accept other males in a set territory that arent part of their coalition. So the Sababora males likely either just considered the two newcomers as already part of their coalition that got lost along the way. Or they weren't territorial to begin with. Though some males are so lousy in being territorial that its less a case of accepting and more a case of being to lazy to chase them off.
Mohawk will put his sons through a similar dilemma. If they still see him as part of their group and he isn't causing too much problems for them or the pride, they may allow him to return. Otherwise, they might just as easily kill him. Blood bonds mean nothing for animals. The blood of the covenant is thicker than the water of the whomb. Time will tell. But its probably better if we never find out.  |
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