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Size comparisons
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I barely post on here anymore because of discord and i do not want to cause anymore issues here or derail the thread further, but i will add this. There is quite a clear reason to why not just me but a few others have brought up the issues regarding user DinoFan83 (or Chocolatecake 123 as he sometimes goes by) because there is clearly an issue that is sadly being ignored/enabled by the mods here. Im not saying he mods here are doing a bad job not at all. A lot of people here are not quite as paleo crazy or as interested in the subject as me or some others here, so you might not see what he's doing. But anyone who does have an interest in it and does not have a huge bias can see what he's doing and what he has been doing for a while.
DinoFan has been banned from multiple yes, MULTIPLE discord servers because of his conduct. What has been posted above is nothing out of the normal for him. Yes this thread is not about the behaviour of users on other platforms but when countless users are trying to show the mods here just why he should be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to the giant theropods and then nothing is done about it that comes across as a little...strange ? As i and others have pointed out before, Dinofan hates Tyrannosaurus. He always has done, and this can be backed up by me and countless others that have interacted with him. Now, hating an extinct animal that has never done anything to you is pretty normal on the internet these days. A lot of people have a dislike regarding Tyrannosaurus. But that just means you have a huge chip on your shoulder regarding the animal, and that is reflected in your posts about the animal. And that means you are not being objective. Most if not all of your posts go against what is currently established by modern studies by actual palaeontologists and respected researcher's. There are countless studies on the mass of the giant theropods that most modern day studies have Tyrannosaurus as the most massive. Then countless others interested in the subject also find that Tyrannosaurus is the largest. Adult specimens for Tyrannosaurus such as Scotty and Sue have estimated body masses succeeding any other giant theropod. Randomdinos favourite theropod is Spinosaurus, and even he clearly states that Tyrannosaurus is the largest currently when using GDI analysis. He does not let any bias get in the way of his work, and that is what DinoFan can not do. This is NOT about wanting or keeping Tyrannosaurus as the largest giant theropod in some fanboy way even though I know there are a ton of people out there that DO want that, and this applies to the other giant theropods also. It's just that with the most current scientific data from experts with no bias involved place Tyrannosaurus as the largest theropod, and that is then reflected in the work from researchers. If any giant theropod is ever confirmed to actually displace Tyrannosaurus as the overall largest, then that will be reflected in the work from experts and researchers the world over. But that has not happened yet. Dinofan often presents HIS WORK and his more bias views as actual study and the most current data from other actual verified experts. It's not and that is why it's not reflected by anyone else, and he should clarify that for the people who do not know better. This is about the most current scientific understanding of these animals. Currently, adult specimens of Tyrannosaurus such as Scotty and Sue are more massive than other rival giant theropods. This is backed up by the studies from verified experts and other respected researchers such as Franoys who's just completed his thesis and whose work is being used in an actual peer reviewed study coming soon. And others such as Randomdinos, who often works very closely with Fran. I have interacted with both on many occasions regarding the size of these animals. If you can not use the work from an actual palaeontologist or any peer reviewed work then you should be using the work from Fran who is practically a fully fledged palaeontologist at this point anyway. I mean, why would you not use accurate and up-to-date rigorous paleo work ? Because it does not correspond to the narrative that YOU want people to believe. Dinofan wants more people to believe what he wants and DOES NOT CARE ABOUT ACCURACY. I could go on and on and believe me i have done plenty of times before. I have interacted with Dinofan on discord, i have interacted with him on Diviantart and on other forums, and it is always the same. And once more and more people start seeing what he's about he normally leaves the forum and starts repeating the exact same pattern somewhere else if he's not banned first. He used to post non-stop on a forum called World of animals but once other users there (including myself) started challenging his narrative and he knew he could not trick anyone there any more he left and started posting on this site. It just goes on and on he joins different forums or different discord servers like some sort of machine. He honestly seems like he is obsessed with his hatred for this animal. I'm not saying he should be stopped posting here, but I do think more mods should question what he's posting and try and push him into being a more objective user, even if It's just as simple as he has to post these are MY ESTIMATES and might not reflect the work done by experts or respected researchers (because his posts never do he often falls back on using the work from Spino in wonderland someone else who in the past also had an intense hatred for Tyrannosaurus what a coincidence). Plenty of people come to these sites for information, and that is probably why he posts so much here. This is not a personal attack, and do not try and make out that it is. All I'm doing is calling out the bias of this user this is about accuracy and being objective and I hope more is done to make sure more accurate work is posted here. The evidence is all over this thread people have tried to show you he is not to be trusted when it comes to the giant theropods because he clearly has his favourites and the ones he dislikes, and he lets that get in the way and that ruins his credibility. He behaves this way on this site he does it on Reddit he does it on Diviantart and has done it countless times on discord and I know this has been brought to your attention a few times now. How much more evidence do you need ? Please do not turn a blind eye to this. Sorry for the ramble, but it needed to be said. 
Thank you for the great suggestion and putting your opinions. Using troll/teasing type of words are not allowed. Mods objected only for this reason. Since we don't have enough expertise to analyze who is telling truth and who is spreading misinformation we couldn't reached to a convulsive solution.
So here is the solution, For now we are allowing to continue the debate but we will keep extra attention to this thread/topic. If again this thread got derailed, we will surely take decision to ban members who are trying to spread misinformation. You can help us by reporting the posts.
Updated Giganotosaurus skeletal by Franoys (just completed his thesis and his work is being used in peer reviewed work coming soon)
 *This image is copyright of its original author Here is some information on what has changed from the last version of the diagram and what has been adjusted. Also the studies that were used to help create the skeletal. changes: 23/12/2021: Huge update. The first of a series of updates regarding the Carcharodontosaurids. Hopefully not other than the mass might change in the future. -Updated and improved the skull, using data from the latest Kem-Kem beds monograph that helped a lot articulating and studying Carcharodontosaurine crania. (More on that with future updates). Redrew the cervical centra and ribs, corrected the dorsal vertebrae proportions (now the centra is shorter in hight, but they have higher neural arches, over double the centrum height as described by Cuesta (2018). -Changed the vertebral formula from 9 cervicals /14 dorsals to 10 cervicals and 13 dorsals, like Concavenator's description and Harris 1998 suggest, contra Stoval 1950 and Canale et al 2014. The original mounted skeleton also shows 10 cericals with 10 cervical ribs. -Redrew the femora and updated the pelvic girdle. -Rearranged the tail (I updated the whole Carcharodontosaurid composite tail, changing slightly the assigned positions of the perserved Acrocanthosaurus's caudal centra, in a way coherent with Cuesta's thesis about Concavenator corcovatus and BHI reports) augmented the intervertebral cartilague between caudal centra, and redrew and re scaled the posteriormost end of the tail using Concavenator instead of Allosaurus. As a result the animal now is slightly longer (a bit over the 12.2 m length listed in Currie & Carpenter (2000) and Coria & Currie (2006). -Removed the caudal pleurocoels since Giganotosaurus lacks them even if they were said to be observed in Acrocanthosaurus. All other Carcharodontosaurids seem to lack them (Coria 2003, Cuesta 2018). -Updated the mass estimation with the higher densities proposed by Larramendi& Paul( Used the roughly median value of 0.97 SG). It also takes into account the slightly deeper torso, however a full new GDI will have to be performed to make sure it checks after the changes made. Studies used for this work. 1)Stromer 1931 II. Vertebrate remains from the Baharîje Beds (lowermost Cenomanian). 10. A skeletal remain of Carcharodontosaurus nov. gen. 2)Paul C. Sereno, Didier B. Dutheil, M. Larochene, Hans C. E. Larsson, Gabrielle H. Lyon, Paul M. Magwene, Christian A. Sidor, David J. Varricchio, Jeffrey A. Wilson (1996): Predatory Dinosaurs from the Sahara and Late Cretaceous Faunal Differentiation. Science, New Series, Vol. 272, No. 5264 (May 17, 1996), pp. 986-991 3)F. E Novas, S.Valais, Pat Vickers-Rich, T.Rich (2005): A large Cretaceous theropod from Patagonia, Argentina, and the evolution of carcharodontosaurids. 4)Juan Ignacio Canale, Fernando Emilio Novas & Diego Pol , Historical Biology (2014): Osteology and phylogenetic relationships of Tyrannotitan chubutensis Novas, de Valais, Vickers-Rich and Rich, 2005 (Theropoda: Carcharodontosauridae) from the Lower Cretaceous of Patagonia, Argentina, Historical Biology: An International Journal of Paleobiology. tromer 1931 II. Vertebrate remains from the Baharîje Beds (lowermost Cenomanian). 10. A skeletal remain of Carcharodontosaurus nov. gen. 5)Rodolfo A.Coria, Leonardo Salgado (1995) A new giant carnivorous dinosaur from the Cretaceous of Patagonia. Nature, Vol 377 (September 21 1995) 6)Coria RA, Currie PJ. 2002. The braincase of Giganotosaurus carolinii (Dinosauria: Theropoda) from the Upper Cretaceous of Argentina. J Vert Paleontol. 22(4):802 – 811. 7)Coria RA, Currie PJ. 2006. A new carcharodontosaurid (Dinosauria, Theropoda) from the Upper Cretaceous of Argentina. Geodiversitas. 28(1):71 – 118. 8) J.W Stoval, W.Langston (1950): Acrocanthosaurus atokensis, a New Genus and Species of Lower Cretaceous Theropoda from Oklahoma. The American Midland Naturalist, Vol. 43, No. 3 (May, 1950), pp. 696-728 9) J.D. Harris (1998) A reanalysis of Acrocanthosaurus atokensis, its phylogenetic status, and paleobiogeographic implications, based on a new specimen from Texas. New Mexico Museum of Natural History 10) Currie P. J. & Carpenter K. 2000. — A new specimen of Acrocanthosaurus atokensis (Theropoda, Dinosauria) from the Lower Cretaceous Antlers Formation (Lower Cretaceous, Aptian) of Oklahoma, USA. Geodiversitas 22 (2) : 207-246. 11) Eddy DR, Clarke JA (2011) New Information on the Cranial Anatomy of Acrocanthosaurus atokensis and Its Implications for the Phylogeny of Allosauroidea (Dinosauria: Theropoda). PLoS ONE 6(3): e17932. doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0… 12)Cuesta Fidalgo, E. (2017). Concavenator corcovatus  Theropoda, Dinosauria) from Las Hoyas fossil site (Early Cretaceous, Cuenca, Spain): taphonomic, phylogenetic and morphofunctional analyses.13)Ibrahim, N., Sereno, P. C., Varricchio, D. J., Martill, D. M., Dutheil, D. B., Unwin, D. M., ... & Kaoukaya, A. (2020). Geology and paleontology of the upper cretaceous Kem Kem group of eastern Morocco. ZooKeys, 928, 1. 
I've been very lacking on time lately, but I think it is appropriate to say the following to LoveAnimals, GuateGojira, JurassicDD, sanjay, and whomever else this may concern.
The theropod size-related topics this whole thing is all about and that I used to be very involved in are no longer of any importance to me. Real life matters are taking up sufficient amounts of my interest to the point where my interest in theropod size has disappeared, as well as significant amounts of my time (which is why I'm so lacking on it). I have told this to tigerluver via private messaging, and have given them permission to clarify it with whoever they see fit. So maybe T. rex is the largest known theropod. Maybe I have been underestimating its size. And maybe I've also been overestimating the size of carcharodontosaurids and spinosaurids. But none of these would matter if they were the case, since as previously stated I am uninterested. Hopefully this has helped to clarify anything.  (12-28-2021, 04:06 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(12-28-2021, 12:13 AM)JurassicDD Wrote: Updated Giganotosaurus skeletal by Franoys (just completed his thesis and his work is being used in peer reviewed work coming soon) Its a beautiful update I love it. Frans work is being used in a study that is currently being worked on and will be released at some point. I know his work is extremely rigorous and he's updating all of his work currently. It will take a while but its nice to know. All of his work has got to be updated because of the density update that came from Larramendi Asier , Gregory S. Paul2 , Shu-yu Hsu. Basically all the mass estimates have got to be increased.
Allosaurus fragilis by Franoys updated
 *This image is copyright of its original author Information on the update and the studies used to help create the diagram for those interested. 23/10/2021 A skeletal update that had to happen; and that actually demonstrates that scaling using scalebars can be misleading, so it is better to avoid when possible. For quite some time I suspected the pelvic girdle seemed small; specially considering Gilmore's description of USNM 4734. But no matter what; scalebars kept giving that result so I gave up. However, I decided to actually superimpose the medial view of the ilium with the sacrals and adjusted it until all the scars for attachment of the transverse process of the sacral vertebrae, sacral ribs and said elements matched perfectly. So all that region got upscaled by aprox 7,1% and now it has a deeper torso. I also made other changes while at it; inspired by Evers et al 2020 and their study on the cheek configuration of Allosaurus' skull, and some minor other stuff. Studies used. Madsen Jr, J. H. (1976). Allosaurus fragilis: a revised osteology. Utah Geological and Mining Survey Bulletin, 109, 1-163. Gilmore, Charles W. (1920). "Osteology of the carnivorous dinosauria in the United States National Museum, with special reference to the genera Antrodemus (Allosaurus) and Ceratosaurus". Bulletin of the United States National Museum. 110: 1–159. doi:10.5479/si.03629236.110.i. 
The ultimate size chart of Spinosaurus aegyptiacus, made by me.
*This image is copyright of its original author This size chart shows the actual size of Spinosaurus aegyptiacus based on holotype specimen, showing a drastic downsize of this species when excluding the very large Moroccan individuals. The model used is taken from Dan Folkes' Twitter profile which I edited personally by adding the patterns of the Spinosaurus real-life interpretation from National Geographic.
New one! Giganotosaurus carolinii
*This image is copyright of its original author
Amur tiger 'Igor'
 *This image is copyright of its original author In his prime
My ultimate self-made comparison :The size of the modern South American jaguar
*This image is copyright of its original author
Tyrannosaurus rex current largest specimen Scotty RSM-P2523-8 skeletal diagram by Dan folkes https://twitter.com/DanPalaeon1
 *This image is copyright of its original author Scotty compared to Sue (skeletal by Randomdinos)  *This image is copyright of its original author
(01-17-2022, 07:08 AM)JurassicDD Wrote: Scotty compared to Sue (skeletal by Randomdinos)My boy is enormous! Did you make the size comparison between Sue and him? Because visually seems you scaled Scotty higher than the 3.9 m measurement given by Dan Folkes. As far as I know Sue is 3.8 at the hip, and visually Scotty seems more than just 10 cm taller there (I may be wrong) |
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