There is a world somewhere between reality and fiction. Although ignored by many, it is very real and so are those living in it. This forum is about the natural world. Here, wild animals will be heard and respected. The forum offers a glimpse into an unknown world as well as a room with a view on the present and the future. Anyone able to speak on behalf of those living in the emerald forest and the deep blue sea is invited to join.
In fact, the lions could be heard roaring (somewhat distantly) most nights. Every day we saw tracks for the Nharhu males and the odd River Pride lioness. I even came across relatively fresh tracks for the Mayambula Pride moving as far north as Tortillis Plains in the East.
My lion luck wasn’t as bad, and we found the River Pride with their cubs on a couple of occasions. On one occasion, we followed up on their roaring to an area where vultures littered the trees like forgotten Christmas decorations. It took a little searching, but eventually some growling led us to the pride that had finished off their kill and were moving with the males and cubs to a resting spot for the day. Following that meal, the pride was surprisingly mobile this past week, and these wanderings started pushing them beyond the bounds of our concession for the first time in months. On a couple of occasions, they even crossed from the Timbavatiinto the Klaserie Private Nature Reserve.Although this was frustrating at times, it is movement that was fully expected as the cub are growing older and bigger, and now require more food. The older cubs celebrated turning 6-months old this week, and the moms have done very well getting all six cubs to this age, but their jobs are far from over. Sadly, we haven’t seen the youngest lioness to see whether or not she is showing signs of lactating, and thus providing confirmation as to our suspicions that she may have had cubs. The lack of lone lioness tracks moving in and out of a common area are making me think that I have once again jumped the gun. Time as always, will tell.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Nharhu males are looking in good shape (well, except for the limping one whose limp is as bad as it has been since they set up base around Tanda Tula), and they are turning into proper lions now! Since chasing the larger Mbiri males back out of their territory almost three weeks ago, it is as if their confidence has increased and their roars have gotten louder – a great sign for a stable lion future in this area.
Note: I thought limping Nharhu is healing up, but it looks like his limp is permament which is leaving great most of security work to the other two Nharhus. So far those boys were doing very well in that matter, but it looks like more dificult times are ahead of them. Monwana males are settling on their borders (they are said to be big boys) as well as Scorro males (I presume those are big boys as well as they are Matimba blood, but that one is just my guess). Moreover there are 5 Vuyela males which could preasure them directly or indirectly. There also ever present Mbiri males intrested in getting their old territorry back. I wish all best for Nharhus, but they are in very difficult arena to be dominant of. I even think that losing River pride by Mbiri males to Nharhus miight be better for them in the long run. I hope they will remain in charge tho. Time will tell.
In fact, the lions could be heard roaring (somewhat distantly) most nights. Every day we saw tracks for the Nharhu males and the odd River Pride lioness. I even came across relatively fresh tracks for the Mayambula Pride moving as far north as Tortillis Plains in the East.
My lion luck wasn’t as bad, and we found the River Pride with their cubs on a couple of occasions. On one occasion, we followed up on their roaring to an area where vultures littered the trees like forgotten Christmas decorations. It took a little searching, but eventually some growling led us to the pride that had finished off their kill and were moving with the males and cubs to a resting spot for the day. Following that meal, the pride was surprisingly mobile this past week, and these wanderings started pushing them beyond the bounds of our concession for the first time in months. On a couple of occasions, they even crossed from the Timbavatiinto the Klaserie Private Nature Reserve.Although this was frustrating at times, it is movement that was fully expected as the cub are growing older and bigger, and now require more food. The older cubs celebrated turning 6-months old this week, and the moms have done very well getting all six cubs to this age, but their jobs are far from over. Sadly, we haven’t seen the youngest lioness to see whether or not she is showing signs of lactating, and thus providing confirmation as to our suspicions that she may have had cubs. The lack of lone lioness tracks moving in and out of a common area are making me think that I have once again jumped the gun. Time as always, will tell.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Nharhu males are looking in good shape (well, except for the limping one whose limp is as bad as it has been since they set up base around Tanda Tula), and they are turning into proper lions now! Since chasing the larger Mbiri males back out of their territory almost three weeks ago, it is as if their confidence has increased and their roars have gotten louder – a great sign for a stable lion future in this area.
Note: I thought limping Nharhu is healing up, but it looks like his limp is permament which is leaving great most of security work to the other two Nharhus. So far those boys were doing very well in that matter, but it looks like more dificult times are ahead of them. Monwana males are settling on their borders (they are said to be big boys) as well as Scorro males (I presume those are big boys as well as they are Matimba blood, but that one is just my guess). Moreover there are 5 Vuyela males which could preasure them directly or indirectly. There also ever present Mbiri males intrested in getting their old territorry back. I wish all best for Nharhus, but they are in very difficult arena to be dominant of. I even think that losing River pride by Mbiri males to Nharhus miight be better for them in the long run. I hope they will remain in charge tho. Time will tell.
The Nharhu males have chased many times the Mbiri males, At the moment they aren't a trouble like the five Vuyela.
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07-18-2020, 12:09 AM( This post was last modified: 07-18-2020, 12:10 AM by Tr1x24 )
(07-17-2020, 11:33 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: The Nharhu males have chased many times the Mbiri males, At the moment they aren't a trouble like the five Vuyela
(07-17-2020, 11:12 PM)Potato Wrote: Note: I thought limping Nharhu is healing up, but it looks like his limp is permament which is leaving great most of security work to the other two Nharhus. So far those boys were doing very well in that matter, but it looks like more dificult times are ahead of them. Monwana males are settling on their borders (they are said to be big boys) as well as Scorro males (I presume those are big boys as well as they are Matimba blood, but that one is just my guess). Moreover there are 5 Vuyela males which could preasure them directly or indirectly. There also ever present Mbiri males intrested in getting their old territorry back. I wish all best for Nharhus, but they are in very difficult arena to be dominant of. I even think that losing River pride by Mbiri males to Nharhus miight be better for them in the long run. I hope they will remain in charge tho. Time will tell.
Currently 5 Vuyelas are hanging further south and west in Klaserie, Monwana males and Xikukutsus/Mapoza are in bigger danger from Vuyelas, but who knows..
And i dont think they have to be affraid of any coalition of 2, because if they can deal with Mbiris, they can with everyone..
They will be fine unless 5 Vuyelas invade them..
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In fact, the lions could be heard roaring (somewhat distantly) most nights. Every day we saw tracks for the Nharhu males and the odd River Pride lioness. I even came across relatively fresh tracks for the Mayambula Pride moving as far north as Tortillis Plains in the East.
My lion luck wasn’t as bad, and we found the River Pride with their cubs on a couple of occasions. On one occasion, we followed up on their roaring to an area where vultures littered the trees like forgotten Christmas decorations. It took a little searching, but eventually some growling led us to the pride that had finished off their kill and were moving with the males and cubs to a resting spot for the day. Following that meal, the pride was surprisingly mobile this past week, and these wanderings started pushing them beyond the bounds of our concession for the first time in months. On a couple of occasions, they even crossed from the Timbavatiinto the Klaserie Private Nature Reserve.Although this was frustrating at times, it is movement that was fully expected as the cub are growing older and bigger, and now require more food. The older cubs celebrated turning 6-months old this week, and the moms have done very well getting all six cubs to this age, but their jobs are far from over. Sadly, we haven’t seen the youngest lioness to see whether or not she is showing signs of lactating, and thus providing confirmation as to our suspicions that she may have had cubs. The lack of lone lioness tracks moving in and out of a common area are making me think that I have once again jumped the gun. Time as always, will tell.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Nharhu males are looking in good shape (well, except for the limping one whose limp is as bad as it has been since they set up base around Tanda Tula), and they are turning into proper lions now! Since chasing the larger Mbiri males back out of their territory almost three weeks ago, it is as if their confidence has increased and their roars have gotten louder – a great sign for a stable lion future in this area.
Note: I thought limping Nharhu is healing up, but it looks like his limp is permament which is leaving great most of security work to the other two Nharhus. So far those boys were doing very well in that matter, but it looks like more dificult times are ahead of them. Monwana males are settling on their borders (they are said to be big boys) as well as Scorro males (I presume those are big boys as well as they are Matimba blood, but that one is just my guess). Moreover there are 5 Vuyela males which could preasure them directly or indirectly. There also ever present Mbiri males intrested in getting their old territorry back. I wish all best for Nharhus, but they are in very difficult arena to be dominant of. I even think that losing River pride by Mbiri males to Nharhus miight be better for them in the long run. I hope they will remain in charge tho. Time will tell.
The Nharhu males have chased many times the Mbiri males, At the moment they aren't a trouble like the five Vuyela.
I meant the following next 2 years or so (time to rise generation of cubs sired by them) so some of mentioned coalitions are not a problem now, but very well might become problem sooner or later. Also I desagree that Mbiriis are not a problem. They are very capable of taking on Nharhu males espeecially if limping Nharhu does not join a fight. For the last couple of months they were venturing into Nharhus territorry I believe in hope of finding Nharhus not together. Such ventures always might turn out to be deadly. Actually Majingialnes worked on Salatis that way for two years and they succeed. Even tho Nharhus manage to push back Mbiris succeesfully so far at all occasions, they might be not as succeesfull in the future.
(07-17-2020, 11:33 PM)TinoArmando Wrote: The Nharhu males have chased many times the Mbiri males, At the moment they aren't a trouble like the five Vuyela
(07-17-2020, 11:12 PM)Potato Wrote: Note: I thought limping Nharhu is healing up, but it looks like his limp is permament which is leaving great most of security work to the other two Nharhus. So far those boys were doing very well in that matter, but it looks like more dificult times are ahead of them. Monwana males are settling on their borders (they are said to be big boys) as well as Scorro males (I presume those are big boys as well as they are Matimba blood, but that one is just my guess). Moreover there are 5 Vuyela males which could preasure them directly or indirectly. There also ever present Mbiri males intrested in getting their old territorry back. I wish all best for Nharhus, but they are in very difficult arena to be dominant of. I even think that losing River pride by Mbiri males to Nharhus miight be better for them in the long run. I hope they will remain in charge tho. Time will tell.
Currently 5 Vuyelas are hanging further south and west in Klaserie, Monwana males and Xikukutsus/Mapoza are in bigger danger from Vuyelas, but who knows..
And i dont think they have to be affraid of any coalition of 2, because if they can deal with Mbiris, they can with everyone..
They will be fine unless 5 Vuyelas invade them..
Very agree with you.
The Mbiri never have lost a battle before (at least that wasn't been recorded as was in the case with the Nharhu males).
The Monwana are very big boys, But the Nharhu are strong and I believe they can grown a bit more...
At least until the 8 years old.
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"And i dont think they have to be affraid of any coalition of 2"
If limping Nharhu will be unable to fight then I believe then can be overthrown by coalition of two.
" because if they can deal with Mbiris, they can with everyone.."
I think it is more aboout Mbiris looking for a easy fight - finding one of the Nharhu without his brother. That they venture so often recently into Nharhus territory is a sign for me that they are not afraid of Nharhus at all.
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In fact, the lions could be heard roaring (somewhat distantly) most nights. Every day we saw tracks for the Nharhu males and the odd River Pride lioness. I even came across relatively fresh tracks for the Mayambula Pride moving as far north as Tortillis Plains in the East.
My lion luck wasn’t as bad, and we found the River Pride with their cubs on a couple of occasions. On one occasion, we followed up on their roaring to an area where vultures littered the trees like forgotten Christmas decorations. It took a little searching, but eventually some growling led us to the pride that had finished off their kill and were moving with the males and cubs to a resting spot for the day. Following that meal, the pride was surprisingly mobile this past week, and these wanderings started pushing them beyond the bounds of our concession for the first time in months. On a couple of occasions, they even crossed from the Timbavatiinto the Klaserie Private Nature Reserve.Although this was frustrating at times, it is movement that was fully expected as the cub are growing older and bigger, and now require more food. The older cubs celebrated turning 6-months old this week, and the moms have done very well getting all six cubs to this age, but their jobs are far from over. Sadly, we haven’t seen the youngest lioness to see whether or not she is showing signs of lactating, and thus providing confirmation as to our suspicions that she may have had cubs. The lack of lone lioness tracks moving in and out of a common area are making me think that I have once again jumped the gun. Time as always, will tell.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Nharhu males are looking in good shape (well, except for the limping one whose limp is as bad as it has been since they set up base around Tanda Tula), and they are turning into proper lions now! Since chasing the larger Mbiri males back out of their territory almost three weeks ago, it is as if their confidence has increased and their roars have gotten louder – a great sign for a stable lion future in this area.
Note: I thought limping Nharhu is healing up, but it looks like his limp is permament which is leaving great most of security work to the other two Nharhus. So far those boys were doing very well in that matter, but it looks like more dificult times are ahead of them. Monwana males are settling on their borders (they are said to be big boys) as well as Scorro males (I presume those are big boys as well as they are Matimba blood, but that one is just my guess). Moreover there are 5 Vuyela males which could preasure them directly or indirectly. There also ever present Mbiri males intrested in getting their old territorry back. I wish all best for Nharhus, but they are in very difficult arena to be dominant of. I even think that losing River pride by Mbiri males to Nharhus miight be better for them in the long run. I hope they will remain in charge tho. Time will tell.
The Nharhu males have chased many times the Mbiri males, At the moment they aren't a trouble like the five Vuyela.
I meant the following next 2 years or so (time to rise generation of cubs sired by them) so some of mentioned coalitions are not a problem now, but very well might become problem sooner or later. Also I desagree that Mbiriis are not a problem. They are very capable of taking on Nharhu males espeecially if limping Nharhu does not join a fight. For the last couple of months they were venturing into Nharhus territorry I believe in hope of finding Nharhus not together. Such ventures always might turn out to be deadly. Actually Majingialnes worked on Salatis that way for two years and they succeed. Even tho Nharhus manage to push back Mbiris succeesfully so far at all occasions, they might be not as succeesfull in the future.
Who knows.
in a future the Mbiri will be more older and already have passed their prime while the Nharhu in fact would be in their prime 7-8 Years old.
Anyway I hope that the River pride cubs can do it.
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(07-18-2020, 12:21 AM)Potato Wrote: "And i dont think they have to be affraid of any coalition of 2"
If limping Nharhu will be unable to fight then I believe then can be overthrown by coalition of two.
" because if they can deal with Mbiris, they can with everyone.."
I think it is more aboout Mbiris looking for a easy fight - finding one of the Nharhu without his brother. That they venture so often recently into Nharhus territory is a sign for me that they are not afraid of Nharhus at all.
When the Mbiri were chased off by the Nharhu males the scenario was that the Nharhu have find the Mbiri in their territory and have chased them off, Mbiri have been a bit nomadic lately.
They have been seen in the Northern Timbavati roaring and the Nharhu have responded the threat.
Until the point that the Mbiri have moved towards to KNP...
with the past of the months the Nharhu have gaining a lot of confidence and Mbiri lost it in my opinion.
(07-18-2020, 12:21 AM)Potato Wrote: If limping Nharhu will be unable to fight then I believe then can be overthrown by coalition of two.
(07-18-2020, 12:21 AM)Potato Wrote: "And i dont think they have to be affraid of any coalition of 2"
If limping Nharhu will be unable to fight then I believe then can be overthrown by coalition of two.
" because if they can deal with Mbiris, they can with everyone.."
I think it is more aboout Mbiris looking for a easy fight - finding one of the Nharhu without his brother. That they venture so often recently into Nharhus territory is a sign for me that they are not afraid of Nharhus at all.
They literaly lose their territory to Nharhus, so your words are not logical..
And only 2 Nharhus chased them recently , 2 out of 3, and they didnt dear to fight in even numbers...
Nharhus deserve more credit than people give them..
(07-18-2020, 12:21 AM)Potato Wrote: If limping Nharhu will be unable to fight then I believe then can be overthrown by coalition of two.
(07-18-2020, 12:21 AM)Potato Wrote: "And i dont think they have to be affraid of any coalition of 2"
If limping Nharhu will be unable to fight then I believe then can be overthrown by coalition of two.
" because if they can deal with Mbiris, they can with everyone.."
I think it is more aboout Mbiris looking for a easy fight - finding one of the Nharhu without his brother. That they venture so often recently into Nharhus territory is a sign for me that they are not afraid of Nharhus at all.
They literaly lose their territory to Nharhus, so your words are not logical..
And only 2 Nharhus chased them recently , 2 out of 3, and they didnt dear to fight in even numbers...
Nharhus deserve more credit than people give them..
I very agree with you in this point buddy, the people sometimes think that the Mbiri males can defeated the Nharhu only for be matimba sons, I agrre that they are warriors, big males, but the truth and that all of we have witness is that the Nharhu males on a 2v2 have demostrated that they are warriors and very intelligent in only 10 months they have took-over a big territory, have mated with three different prides and probably have cubs with two of the three.
Only the time will tell if those cubs will make it. the rest is history.
"in a future the Mbiri will be more older and already have passed their prime while the Nharhu in fact would be in their prime 7-8 Years old."
Mbiris are born in late 2013 so they are just coming to 7 years old now.
" Mbiri have been a bit nomadic lately. They have been seen in the Northern Timbavati roaring and the Nharhu have responded the threat."
They are still terrytoorial and in full control over Myambula pride.
"with the past of the months the Nharhu have gaining a lot of confidence and Mbiri lost it in my opinion."
Agree what it comes Nharhus althrough highly disagree about Mbiri. That Mbiris are freely moving onto other coalitions territorrys is showing somethink opposite I would say. I believe they are as confident as always.
"They literaly lose their territory to Nharhus, so your words are not logical.. "
Thay lost first war. Nharhus took River pride and big part of Mbiri's lands. It doesn't mean however that they will win next war as well. Also don't take me wrong I am not taking chances from Nharhus. They have proven to be force to recond with and match for Mbiris. I do however highly disagree with amount of credit you two guys are giving to Mbiris. I believe they the strongest duo around, big, powerfull, in prime and with warrior attidue. The lions not many can fight with equal numbers. and considering them not a threat to Nharhus is far underestimation.
"And only 2 Nharhus chased them recently , 2 out of 3, and they didnt dear to fight in even numbers..."
They did not take open fight in Nharhus territorry. When thhey crossed border they stood still and roared back at Narhus. Nharhus did not advance further. Interprate it as you want. How I see it is that Nharhus are strong, but Mbiris are mighty and supperion in strenght with equal numbers over Nharhs (as well as over just about anyone)
"Nharhus deserve more credit than people give them.."
Agree. I am not saying Nharhus are some kind of easy target for Mbiris. You missunderstood me I thiink.
"the people sometimes think that the Mbiri males can defeated the Nharhu only for be matimba sons"
Mbiris has proven themselfs a lot. They are not just Matimba sons. They do have their own legacy already. Just to mention they put a beating to prime Mapozas which were strong duo as well and Mbiris weren't even 4 years old by that time. Mbiris deserve all the credits they get as they are remarkable duo.
07-18-2020, 02:42 AM( This post was last modified: 07-18-2020, 02:43 AM by Matimbalani )
I think the Nharus did manage to catch Shaka Mibiri alone and afterwards the Mbiris abandoned the core of their territory. So far as these things go, there will be some back and forth between the two coalitions until one is forced to abandon their claims for good. Since the Mayambula clubs are much older, I think the Mbiris may have started getting the itchy foot and start probing around for more prides to take over.
Ultimately, I think the territory would be for the Vuyelas to take if they manage to avoid any death.
Personally, I don't think Timbavati is a good area for male lions. They do on occasion "disappear" in their prime specially if they are handsome specimens.
(07-18-2020, 02:16 AM)Potato Wrote: "in a future the Mbiri will be more older and already have passed their prime while the Nharhu in fact would be in their prime 7-8 Years old."
Mbiris are born in late 2013 so they are just coming to 7 years old now.
" Mbiri have been a bit nomadic lately. They have been seen in the Northern Timbavati roaring and the Nharhu have responded the threat."
They are still terrytoorial and in full control over Myambula pride.
"with the past of the months the Nharhu have gaining a lot of confidence and Mbiri lost it in my opinion."
Agree what it comes Nharhus althrough highly disagree about Mbiri. That Mbiris are freely moving onto other coalitions territorrys is showing somethink opposite I would say. I believe they are as confident as always.
"They literaly lose their territory to Nharhus, so your words are not logical.. "
Thay lost first war. Nharhus took River pride and big part of Mbiri's lands. It doesn't mean however that they will win next war as well. Also don't take me wrong I am not taking chances from Nharhus. They have proven to be force to recond with and match for Mbiris. I do however highly disagree with amount of credit you two guys are giving to Mbiris. I believe they the strongest duo around, big, powerfull, in prime and with warrior attidue. The lions not many can fight with equal numbers. and considering them not a threat to Nharhus is far underestimation.
"And only 2 Nharhus chased them recently , 2 out of 3, and they didnt dear to fight in even numbers..."
They did not take open fight in Nharhus territorry. When thhey crossed border they stood still and roared back at Narhus. Nharhus did not advance further. Interprate it as you want. How I see it is that Nharhus are strong, but Mbiris are mighty and supperion in strenght with equal numbers over Nharhs (as well as over just about anyone)
"Nharhus deserve more credit than people give them.."
Agree. I am not saying Nharhus are some kind of easy target for Mbiris. You missunderstood me I thiink.
"the people sometimes think that the Mbiri males can defeated the Nharhu only for be matimba sons"
Mbiris has proven themselfs a lot. They are not just Matimba sons. They do have their own legacy already. Just to mention they put a beating to prime Mapozas which were strong duo as well and Mbiris weren't even 4 years old by that time. Mbiris deserve all the credits they get as they are remarkable duo.
1 - Kings Camp, has said that they have been a bit nomadic lately, I didn't say that they aren't dominant over a pride, But their movements are a bit risky.
they were seen moving for the North of Timbavati Into KNP and viceversa a risky move for the 10 sub-adults sons of the Mayambula pride.
2 - When all this fight has happen the Nharhu and Mbiri have enter on a property where Kings Camp wasn't able to going it.
and in fact until there the roars of the Nharhu were heared in a sign of showing an absolutely dominance!
3 - I don't say that Mbiri don't deserves credits but they not are anymore the same males as they were 1/2 years ago.
Cathan Moore the photographer that has witness all this fight at Kings Camp he has said that he saw the change of the confidence of the Mbiri's
4 - Mbiri aren't moving freely towards territories of dominant males with confidence, In my opinion they not seems to be in a comfort area as they used to be in their old territory a few years ago.
I'm just basing on the statament of Kings Camp rangers.
5 - I know they are a mighty duo and were dominant since the 4 years old and they have gained their own credits.
But as far I remember never has happend before that they have lost a fight in a 2v2 with other males.
I've found a blog of Umlani Bushcamp,Maybe all of we have read it before. When the three Nharhu have appear in the area. Both Mbiri have moved towards the south. an adjacent move of where were the Nharhu at that time. (at least, I've interpret like that)
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(07-18-2020, 02:42 AM)Matimbalani Wrote: I think the Nharus did manage to catch Shaka Mibiri alone and afterwards the Mbiris abandoned the core of their territory. So far as these things go, there will be some back and forth between the two coalitions until one is forced to abandon their claims for good. Since the Mayambula clubs are much older, I think the Mbiris may have started getting the itchy foot and start probing around for more prides to take over.
Ultimately, I think the territory would be for the Vuyelas to take if they manage to avoid any death.
Personally, I don't think Timbavati is a good area for male lions. They do on occasion "disappear" in their prime specially if they are handsome specimens.
I understand what you are trying to say.
The hunting not is allowed anymore in the Timbavati. I believe that never has been allowed but the lions in Umbabat always were on risky there.
If I remember where the hunt used to happen with frequent was in the Northern of Timbavati... (If anyone know it well,Please correct me)
