+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Questions (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-questions)
+--- Thread: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? (/topic-what-are-the-testosterone-levels-of-varying-animals)
Pages:
1
2
What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Polar - 12-22-2017
I am done with my finals!
Same as stated above, I wanted to discuss this because PT Sondaica and I were chatting about the varying testosterone levels of different animals, especially carnivorous mammals (lions, bears, tigers) and a few herbivores (horses, rhinos, elephants, to name a few).
Have any of you, especially @GrizzlyClaws, @peter, @tigerluver, or @sanjay have any information on the testosterone levels of varying species?
I will try to post some of my own evidence/supporting arguments (few posts and articles) here to supplement the question.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Spalea - 12-23-2017
@Polar : what is the testoterone ? The virility hormone ?
But a wild rabbit fleeing a fox does it have as much testoterone as its prosecutor ? The boar as much as the tiger against which it fights for surviving ?
Is the testoterone linked at the thought of killing ? Necessarily ?
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Spalea - 12-23-2017
@Polar :
After reflection I would define the testoterone as being the hormone which allows the biggest and the fattest release of energy.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Polar - 12-23-2017
(12-23-2017, 01:55 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Polar : what is the testoterone ? The virility hormone ?
But a wild rabbit fleeing a fox does it have as much testoterone as its prosecutor ? The boar as much as the tiger against which it fights for surviving ?
Is the testoterone linked at the thought of killing ? Necessarily ?
Testosterone would be the hormone that would increase male traits in different species. Across species, I am sure that testosterone levels can differ quite a significant amount. It increases virility in males.
Adrenaline helps the rabbit escape the fox, the boar fend off the bear/tiger, and the human run from a predator. What I am asking about are the differences between testosterone levels of different species and how strong their test receptors/how testosterone interacts with other hormones in their system.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Spalea - 12-23-2017
@Polar :
about #4: sorry I have perhaps confused testosterone and adrenalin after having searched the exacte definition on wikipedia thank to which you can see she also concerns the females animals, humans included.
Read that:
Testosterone is a steroid from the androstane class containing a keto and hydroxyl groups at the three and seventeen positions respectively. It is biosynthesized in several steps from cholesterol and is converted in the liver to inactive metabolites.[6] It exerts its action through binding to and activation of the androgen receptor.[6]
In humans and most other vertebrates, testosterone is secreted primarily by the testicles of males and, to a lesser extent, the ovaries of females. On average, in adult males, levels of testosterone are about 7–8 times as great as in adult females.[7] As the metabolic consumption of testosterone in males is greater, the daily production is about 20 times greater in men.[8][9] Females are also more sensitive to the hormone.
I have make the error to assimilate adrenalin and testoterone, due to the fact that males and females spend as much adrenalin within the framework of "struggle for life".
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - GrizzlyClaws - 12-23-2017
It is hard to make the interspecific comparison for the testosterone levels, but conspecific wise, for example, aren't lions' darker mane serves as an indication for the higher testosterone level?
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Spalea - 12-24-2017
(12-23-2017, 10:15 PM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: It is hard to make the interspecific comparison for the testosterone levels, but conspecific wise, for example, aren't lions' darker mane serves as an indication for the higher testosterone level?
Good question, because the lion's mane is clearly a male attribute, thus completely due to the testoterone. But what can we say about lions in such countries where they never have black mane ? Because they, nevertheless, are as virile as the ones in other places with black mane... A lion's life is a lion's life wherever it is !
So, I would answer that is clearly an indication as concerns an individual along its life. But in relation to the specy, I don't know.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Garfield - 12-29-2017
Well hey bros check out this mother, look at the mane on that thing. Powerful bro An Merry Christmas to all hope everyones been doin well
Um thinkin theres some juice in this bro. Lions gut more testosterone than tigers i think, an it shows in how they act an the mane.
eatin high off the hog.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - paul cooper - 12-30-2017
(12-29-2017, 03:03 AM)Garfield Wrote: Well hey bros check out this mother, look at the mane on that thing. Powerful bro An Merry Christmas to all hope everyones been doin wellLions and tigers have the same testosterone levels. If you are talking about aggression, that has a lot more to do then just simply testosterone. BUT they have the same testosterone. The mane doesnt exactly mean more testosterone either. Lions are lions, thats why they get manes.
Um thinkin theres some juice in this bro. Lions gut more testosterone than tigers i think, an it shows in how they act an the mane.
eatin high off the hog.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Polar - 12-31-2017
Yes, the lion's mane is an evolutionary adaptation in lions and not much of a testosterone counter. So not much can be differed in terms of testosterone between tigers and lions in terms of the mane.
Aggression manners are also quite different in personality between species (more aggressive blue-eyed tigers and maneless lions), and aggression comparisons would only matter intra-species (more aggressive lion could have more testosterone than less aggressive one). I would even go as far say that the Tsavo lions have greater testosterone than most other modern lions because of their greater size, greater average muscle mass, and possibly because of their higher aggression.
Some tigers, like Sumatran ones, grow a larger mane relative to their head size and are much more aggressive than their mainland counterparts. Maybe this is due to testosterone, maybe this is just a regional adaptation/reaction to negative pressures. Sumatra was in a series of economic difficulties and a giant war in the first half and 1960s of the last century, and armies usually would burn large sections of forest down to travel through them easily. This affected many of the local flora and fauna, and Sumatran tigers probably started rebelling because of this. These tigers' differences are likely regional ones.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Polar - 12-31-2017
(12-30-2017, 05:03 AM)paul cooper Wrote:(12-29-2017, 03:03 AM)Garfield Wrote: Well hey bros check out this mother, look at the mane on that thing. Powerful bro An Merry Christmas to all hope everyones been doin wellLions and tigers have the same testosterone levels. If you are talking about aggression, that has a lot more to do then just simply testosterone. BUT they have the same testosterone. The mane doesnt exactly mean more testosterone either. Lions are lions, thats why they get manes.
Um thinkin theres some juice in this bro. Lions gut more testosterone than tigers i think, an it shows in how they act an the mane.
eatin high off the hog.
Do you have the link to the proof that lion's testosterone is same as that of tigers?
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - paul cooper - 12-31-2017
(12-31-2017, 03:59 AM)Polar Wrote: Yes, the lion's mane is an evolutionary adaptation in lions and not much of a testosterone counter. So not much can be differed in terms of testosterone between tigers and lions in terms of the mane.
Aggression manners are also quite different in personality between species (more aggressive blue-eyed tigers and maneless lions), and aggression comparisons would only matter intra-species (more aggressive lion could have more testosterone than less aggressive one). I would even go as far say that the Tsavo lions have greater testosterone than most other modern lions because of their greater size, greater average muscle mass, and possibly because of their higher aggression.
Some tigers, like Sumatran ones, grow a larger mane relative to their head size and are much more aggressive than their mainland counterparts. Maybe this is due to testosterone, maybe this is just a regional adaptation/reaction to negative pressures. Sumatra was in a series of economic difficulties and a giant war in the first half and 1960s of the last century, and armies usually would burn large sections of forest down to travel through them easily. This affected many of the local flora and fauna, and Sumatran tigers probably started rebelling because of this. These tigers' differences are likely regional ones.
When i talk about the mane, i am talking about not just the ruff around, but the actual neck and that area where lions grow their manes.
Testosterone causing aggression is highly disputed. Btw if you didnt know, a average human has 3x more testosterone then a lion or a tiger. Testosterone causes behavior to become dominant, not directly aggression. For example, If you see my posts on the "Tigers with mane" thread, i am
posting these 2 tigers that like together, their names are Enzo and Diego (both males) Enzo is a bengal tiger, he looks like a typical dominant male bengal tiger you see in india. Enzo is bigger than diego. Not sure what species diego is, most likely mixed. But both a lions mane growing around their neck, and with a long ruff on the sides. Diego is very aggressive. Enzo is a very mellow and cool tiger, he is philosophical. But who is the dominant one? Enzo is.
Also enzo has a bigger mane too. I think lions get manes actually because of sociality. Tigers, maybe. Not sure that is a mystery why tigers get manes around their necks. Tigresses dont have the ruff.
I dont know much about sumatran tigers, but are they really more aggressive? Does a bigger ruff really make them more aggressive?
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Polar - 12-31-2017
An average prime human male in his 20s has around 500-650 ng/dl of testosterone, and you are right that a male lion's or tiger's testosterone can be several times lower than that (180 ng/dl from captive Asian lion and 250 ng/dl from wild African lion pride leader from Kenya). Those are only two figures. I don't know any estimate for either a captive or wild tiger, but a fully-grown male black bear during both the spring and fall seasons can have anywhere from 1000-1250 ng/dl. Again, very limited data for test levels.
Whatever the case, the testosterone receptors of big cats are extremely powerful to allow them to even process that low amount of testosterone. Carnivores gain muscle and mass so much more quickly than we do. Testosterone receptors can vary in strength depending on built-in genes for testosterone regulation.
The only problems here are:
1) I am still looking hard for testosterone measurements of either captive or wild tigers. Very hard to find.
2) Tigers may vary by testosterone amount like they do in size; lions are a much more constant size. Normally, larger animals require more testosterone since they have plenty more hormone/blood pathways. So the results for tigers can vary quite a bit regarding size.
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - Garfield - 12-31-2017
(12-31-2017, 08:37 AM)Polar Wrote: An average prime human male in his 20s has around 500-650 ng/dl of testosterone, and you are right that a male lion's or tiger's testosterone can be several times lower than that (180 ng/dl from captive Asian lion and 250 ng/dl from wild African lion pride leader from Kenya). Those are only two figures. I don't know any estimate for either a captive or wild tiger, but a fully-grown male black bear during both the spring and fall seasons can have anywhere from 1000-1250 ng/dl. Again, very limited data for test levels.
Whatever the case, the testosterone receptors of big cats are extremely powerful to allow them to even process that low amount of testosterone. Carnivores gain muscle and mass so much more quickly than we do. Testosterone receptors can vary in strength depending on built-in genes for testosterone regulation.
The only problems here are:
1) I am still looking hard for testosterone measurements of either captive or wild tigers. Very hard to find.
2) Tigers may vary by testosterone amount like they do in size; lions are a much more constant size. Normally, larger animals require more testosterone since they have plenty more hormone/blood pathways. So the results for tigers can vary quite a bit regarding size.
Well I mean I don't even know what this whole thread is about sounds like Cooper wants tigers to have manes too. Sorry bro lion gut that market cornered.
Look if a tiger fought as much as lion did, then maybe we'd see some mane growin out of it, so they'll fightin will have to increase more. But um not bettin on that
RE: What are the testosterone levels of varying animals? - paul cooper - 12-31-2017
(12-31-2017, 10:03 AM)Garfield Wrote:(12-31-2017, 08:37 AM)Polar Wrote: An average prime human male in his 20s has around 500-650 ng/dl of testosterone, and you are right that a male lion's or tiger's testosterone can be several times lower than that (180 ng/dl from captive Asian lion and 250 ng/dl from wild African lion pride leader from Kenya). Those are only two figures. I don't know any estimate for either a captive or wild tiger, but a fully-grown male black bear during both the spring and fall seasons can have anywhere from 1000-1250 ng/dl. Again, very limited data for test levels.
Whatever the case, the testosterone receptors of big cats are extremely powerful to allow them to even process that low amount of testosterone. Carnivores gain muscle and mass so much more quickly than we do. Testosterone receptors can vary in strength depending on built-in genes for testosterone regulation.
The only problems here are:
1) I am still looking hard for testosterone measurements of either captive or wild tigers. Very hard to find.
2) Tigers may vary by testosterone amount like they do in size; lions are a much more constant size. Normally, larger animals require more testosterone since they have plenty more hormone/blood pathways. So the results for tigers can vary quite a bit regarding size.
Well I mean I don't even know what this whole thread is about sounds like Cooper wants tigers to have manes too. Sorry bro lion gut that market cornered.
Look if a tiger fought as much as lion did, then maybe we'd see some mane growin out of it, so they'll fightin will have to increase more. But um not bettin on that
Are you really this stupid? If the tiger fought, it wont have a mane. Also it already fights. Some tigers do grow a mane around their neck.