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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Printable Version

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RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - GuateGojira - 10-23-2020

(10-22-2020, 03:55 AM)Balam Wrote: I have some exciting new data to share here @Dark Jaguar @peter @Pckts @GuateGojira @epaiva @Lycaon and all other readers.

I have been in contact for a while with the team at Oncafari, like many other biologists the likes of Hoggesteijn, Tortado, Crashaw etc. They became aware of our compilation table, the biologist Edu Fragoso was kind enough to formulate a chart with all the weights from the jaguar they have captured at Caiman Ecological Refuge in the south of the Pantanal. He sent me the table with al the correct information, including some unpublished weights for a couple of jaguars, the table created by Oncafari and thus coming directly as a first-hand source from a scientific institution is here, this is a WildFact exclusive:


*This image is copyright of its original author


All the weights were inputted into our own table with the exception of Ipe, the reason being that he was a sub-adult of 1,3 years old when captured, as can be seen in their chart. Edu told me that "Brutus" (115 kg) is not the same jaguar as "Brutos" (120 kg), who was captured by biologist Gediendson in collaboration with Oncas do Rio Negro. This had previously caused confusion among us here, but we have been given a clear answer directly from the biologists themselves.

A new male named Robusto (Robust) was provided with an outstanding weight of 137 kg, I was clueless about the existence of this male as they had not shared him on their page before. This also contradicts certain accusations that we have received by a couple of users at a different forum entailing that these organizations only posted the heaviest jaguars captured for amusement purposes, clearly these organizations are among the most prestige and they abide by very tight standards, the biologists who work for them have one single goal and that is to study these jaguars and collect as much data as possible in order to advance their conservation.

The table above also gives us a glimpse into the data for the females in the area, which will be essential for our next table involving the female jaguars from the Pantanal. I do want to highlight the impressive weights coming from them, with several in the 90s and Troncha in the 100s kg of weight, which we knew of already.

Edu told me that currently, Oncafari is attempting to capture jaguars at Da Ilha refuge, as I stated here before, but unfortunately, the team has not been successful so far. They still have 4 more nights on fieldwork so the chances of a jaguar being baited remain a possibility.

In regards to the weight for Shaka, their own table (a scientific document) clearly solidified his weight as 131 kg. The claim Edu made before of him weighing 118 kg at a different capture is relevant, but as I said before this drop in weight could be the result of the deteriorating of the body of the animal as a result of aging, no stomach content has been quoted by Oncafari to jump to conclusions that he was "gorged" during his initial capture. As the weight they provided is 131 kg, that is the weight we will retain.

Lastly, I have included their estimation for Joker's weight in our table under a comment. It's safe to say that they are being conservative with their estimation of its weight as they've clearly specified that he most likely weighed more than 140 kg, and seeing as though they already captured a jaguar at nearly that size (Robusto), it's clear that they notice a size difference between him and Joker that warranted said estimate. It's also important to highlight that other massive jaguars such as Ghost and Houdini who did not fall into the baiting traps could never be captured by the team, but looking at all this data it's safe to say that the average for male jaguars is higher than 100 kg, at least in designated areas, as none of the adult males captures by Oncafari was under 100 kg in weight.

As a result, the table has been updated and can be accessed here, our sample includes 61 jaguars with an average of 112.05 kg of weight. Please keep in mind that I'm still waiting for the Jaguar ID to provide for me weights for males captured by Panthera at Porto Jofre, due to the fire situations the vets and the entire team have been extremely busy. Be on the lookout for more jaguar weights from the Pantanal, as well as for the future papers from Panthera involving Colombian Llanos jaguars that were confirmed to me recently as well.

Kind regards!

Congratulations! You had made an excelent work and your tables are the first ones about jaguars in the web as far I know.

I am glad that new people is following the dream that Wildfact represents, the search of true information about the wild world. I have been working with tigers and lions, now your are taking care of jaguars and I really appreaciate that. Certainly you will be the source for jaguars in the size department.

I will follow your progress, I am very happy with your work.

Greetings my friends! Happy Like


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 10-27-2020

84 kg Amazonian male from Morro de Mendanha in Brazil, empty belly.


*This image is copyright of its original author

This was posted by biologist Herbert O, in the caption he explains that the jaguar was captured by IOP (Leandro Silveira's organized) and IBAMA.

This area of the Amazon is well protected and rich in prey for jaguars, as a result it produces decent sized Amazon specimens.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - epaiva - 10-27-2020

(10-27-2020, 03:47 AM)Balam Wrote: 84 kg Amazonian male from Morro de Mendanha in Brazil, empty belly.


*This image is copyright of its original author

This was posted by biologist Herbert O, in the caption he explains that the jaguar was captured by IOP (Leandro Silveira's organized) and IBAMA.

This area of the Amazon is well protected and rich in prey for jaguars, as a result it produces decent sized Amazon specimens.
Huge Amazonian Jaguar


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 11-01-2020

UPDATED MEASUREMENTS OF 3 OF THE PORTO PRIMAVERA JAGUARS CAPTURED BY THE MASTER PETER CRAWSHAW.

@peter

As you requested on your post #403 for the other measurements of the 3 Porto Primavera jaguars in order to compare them with other big cats I managed to ask Peter Crawshaw more measurements of those 3 animals but Crawshaw told me that he didn't take the forearm measurements of those Porto Primavera jaguars.

But he provided me others.


NOTE: Before getting to the measurements there's a clarification to make.

Pita was captured twice and he's also that 122 kg Porto Primavera male Jaguar that aired on TV news in 1994 that I've posted here on this thread and in the Big Cat news thread, before I found out I showed the photo and the news video to Peter Crawshaw himself and he told me that male is Pita, then he checked his original archive and it was on his first capture, Crawshaw didn't even know that his capture of the male jaguar aired on TV here in Brazil in the 90's. Pita's second capture weighed 130 kg captured with Denis Sana and Antonio Platero.


Pita male.


*This image is copyright of its original author


News video of Pita males first capture by Peter Crawshaw and his team that aired here in Brazil in 1994.






With that being said lets head to the measurements method used by Crawshaw.



MEASUREMENTS METHOD

Straight Line, never following the curves of the body.

Body length: from the tip of the nostril untill the base of the tail

Tail length: measured separately.



PETER CRAWSHAW TALKS ABOUT THE OVER THE CURVES MEASUREMENT METHOD.

I already had a previous discussion with him on the jaguar measurement method I once again brought up the topic but this time I mentioned that most of people take the over the curves measure method like onçafari and others.

Here's what he told me about this method.

By Crawshaw's word: ''As I said before, you don't use measuring an animal "over the curves",  that's totally wrong. In this way, the person is deliberately increasing the size of the animal.''



CHEST CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT METHOD.

As this was also one of @peter requests on his post #403 I took advantage and managed to ask Peter Crashaw this one too.

My question was in case the animal is too large and heavy does he take the chest circumference measure by taking one side measurement of the chest and multiply it by 2 ??

Here's what he said.

by Crawshaw's words: ''No, you have to lift the body of the animal ( even if a large one ) and pass the tape measure under it in order to get the complete measurement.''




3 PORTO PRIMAVERA JAGUAR'S MEASUREMENTS.

NOTE: After he checked his original archive he told me Pita male's measurements bellow was from his first capture when he weighed 122 kg, keep in mind his second capture he weighed 130 kg.

Measurement method: Straight Line.


1 - Suely female 77 kg :

Head girth 62.0 cm.

Neck girth 53.5 cm.

Thorax girth 96 cm.

Shoulder height 78.0 cm.

Body length 129.0 cm.

Tail length 61 cm.

Full Body length 190 cm.



2 - Zezão melanistic male 110 kg :

Head girth 70.5 cm.

Neck girth 58.5 cm.

Thorax girth 99 cm.

Shoulder height 80.0 cm.

Body length 143.0 cm.

Tail length 67 cm.

Full Body length 210 cm.




3 - Pita male 122 kg :

Head girth 71.0 cm.

Neck girth 70.0 cm.

Thorax girth 114 cm.

Shoulder height 70.0 cm.

Body length 151.0 cm.

Tail length 56 cm.

Full Body length 207 cm.



Moment Crawshaw sent me the Head and Neck girth of the 3.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Comparisons:

Just like I told to Crawshaw when I saw Pita neck's girth its impressive how these animals vary on the measurements department while some might be thicker and greater in one area others could be thicker and greater on other areas of the body like in this case Pita being thicker than Joker on the neck girth.

It seems like I got a new record breaker on the jaguar's neck girth department on my books so far.

Pita got a whooping 70.0 cm on neck girth.

Pita male's neck is 4 cm thicker than Joker's 66 cm neck and Pita's neck surpasses even Almeida's largest neck girth male measurement of 68.5 cm.

Pita is also very low on the shoulders compared to 110 kg melanistic male Zezão and 77 kg female Suely, he is 10 cm lower on the shoulders compared to Zezão.

By his measurements and by what Crawshaw told me about Pita, I can say Pita was definitely a low to the ground stocky beast. A true representative of the jaguar species.



Peter Crawshaw and Pita male in 1994.


*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 11-02-2020

This is merely a subjective opinion, photographer Christian Brunskill seems to echo the opinion of Ailton Lara regarding Balam as the largest male of Porto Jofre. He has had plenty of close contact with both males and said the following:


*This image is copyright of its original author

In his opinion Balam is around 150 kg while Edno 140 kg. If Balam is indeed the largest male ever seen in the region 150 kg would be the minimum required to dethrone López. At the same time 150 kg was the estimate that the Jaguar ID gave for Edno whom they claim is also larger than López, so there seems to be a lot of diverse opinions by the people who track these jaguars as to who is in fact the largest. Some say Edno, others Balam.

I have a feeling that both of those males could be potential record-breakers in terms of size, but we won't know for sure until they are captured and measurements are gathered, especially now that they are at the pick of their prime.

Christian's photos of both of them:

Balam


*This image is copyright of its original author
Edno


*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - peter - 11-02-2020

(11-01-2020, 03:36 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: UPDATED MEASUREMENTS OF 3 OF THE PORTO PRIMAVERA JAGUARS CAPTURED BY THE MASTER PETER CRAWSHAW.

@peter

As you requested on your post #403 for the other measurements of the 3 Porto Primavera jaguars in order to compare them with other big cats I managed to ask Peter Crawshaw more measurements of those 3 animals but Crawshaw told me that he didn't take the forearm measurements of those Porto Primavera jaguars.

But he provided me others.


NOTE: Before getting to the measurements there's a clarification to make.

Pita was captured twice and he's also that 122 kg Porto Primavera male Jaguar that aired on TV news in 1994 that I've posted here on this thread and in the Big Cat news thread, before I found out I showed the photo and the news video to Peter Crawshaw himself and he told me that male is Pita, then he checked his original archive and it was on his first capture, Crawshaw didn't even know that his capture of the male jaguar aired on TV here in Brazil in the 90's. Pita's second capture weighed 130 kg captured with Denis Sana and Antonio Platero.


Pita male.


*This image is copyright of its original author


News video of Pita males first capture by Peter Crawshaw and his team that aired here in Brazil in 1994.






With that being said lets head to the measurements method used by Crawshaw.



MEASUREMENTS METHOD

Straight Line, never following the curves of the body.

Body length: from the tip of the nostril untill the base of the tail

Tail length: measured separately.



PETER CRAWSHAW TALKS ABOUT THE OVER THE CURVES MEASUREMENT METHOD.

I already had a previous discussion with him on the jaguar measurement method I once again brought up the topic but this time I mentioned that most of people take the over the curves measure method like onçafari and others.

Here's what he told me about this method.

By Crawshaw's word: ''As I said before, you don't use measuring an animal "over the curves",  that's totally wrong. In this way, the person is deliberately increasing the size of the animal.''



CHEST CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT METHOD.

As this was also one of @peter requests on his post #403 I took advantage and managed to ask Peter Crashaw this one too.

My question was in case the animal is too large and heavy does he take the chest circumference measure by taking one side measurement of the chest and multiply it by 2 ??

Here's what he said.

by Crawshaw's words: ''No, you have to lift the body of the animal ( even if a large one ) and pass the tape measure under it in order to get the complete measurement.''




3 PORTO PRIMAVERA JAGUAR'S MEASUREMENTS.

NOTE: After he checked his original archive he told me Pita male's measurements bellow was from his first capture when he weighed 122 kg, keep in mind his second capture he weighed 130 kg.

Measurement method: Straight Line.


1 - Suely female 77 kg :

Head girth 62.0 cm.

Neck girth 53.5 cm.

Thorax girth 96 cm.

Shoulder height 78.0 cm.

Body length 129.0 cm.

Tail length 61 cm.

Full Body length 190 cm.



2 - Zezão melanistic male 110 kg :

Head girth 70.5 cm.

Neck girth 58.5 cm.

Thorax girth 99 cm.

Shoulder height 80.0 cm.

Body length 143.0 cm.

Tail length 67 cm.

Full Body length 210 cm.




3 - Pita male 122 kg :

Head girth 71.0 cm.

Neck girth 70.0 cm.

Thorax girth 114 cm.

Shoulder height 70.0 cm.

Body length 151.0 cm.

Tail length 56 cm.

Full Body length 207 cm.



Moment Crawshaw sent me the Head and Neck girth of the 3.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Comparisons:

Just like I told to Crawshaw when I saw Pita neck's girth its impressive how these animals vary on the measurements department while some might be thicker and greater in one area others could be thicker and greater on other areas of the body like in this case Pita being thicker than Joker on the neck girth.

It seems like I got a new record breaker on the jaguar's neck girth department on my books so far.

Pita got a whooping 70.0 cm on neck girth.

Pita male's neck is 4 cm thicker than Joker's 66 cm neck and Pita's neck surpasses even Almeida's largest neck girth male measurement of 68.5 cm.

Pita is also very low on the shoulders compared to 110 kg melanistic male Zezão and 77 kg female Suely, he is 10 cm lower on the shoulders compared to Zezão.

By his measurements and by what Crawshaw told me about Pita, I can say Pita was definitely a low to the ground stocky beast. A true representative of the jaguar species.



Peter Crawshaw and Pita male in 1994.


*This image is copyright of its original author

DARK JAGUAR

Very interesting post! Must have taken you some time. Many thanks for the effort. As to Crawshaw. Most biologists involved in wild big cats stay away from forums, but he decided to contribute. I'm sure it's much appreciated by many readers interested in jaguars. 

DIMENSIONS

Peter Crawshaw is one of the few biologists who measured wild big cats in a straight line. This is the correct way to measure the length of a cat. I also have no questions on chest circumference, as it's clear the jaguars were lifted in order to measure the chest circumference. The information he provided, therefore, is very reliable.   

The dimensions of the 3 wild jaguars enable us to compare them to leopards. When we have reliable information about the dimensions of Sumatran tigers, we will be able to get to a table like the one below:


*This image is copyright of its original author
 

The table has one typo (on top). It says '1989-1902', whereas it should have been '1889-1902'. 

The Maharajah of Cooch Behar measured 10 male tigers shot in Cooch Behar, the Duars and Assam in the period 1898-1902 'between pegs'. Of these, 8 were measured both 'over curves' and 'between pegs'. The average difference between both methods was 13,84 cm. 

My aim is to get to similar tables for lions, jaguars and leopards, as it's the only way to get to a reliable comparison. In order to get there, we need reliable information on the neck girth of tigers and the circumference of the front limbs of jaguars and leopards. Same for the width of the heel. Maybe you can talk to a few jaguar biologists, as measuring the heel width, the fore-arm and the upper-arm won't take a lot of time. 

RELATIVE ROBUSTNESS 

Some years ago, Tigerluver, using reliable measurements only, tried to find out a bit more about the relative robustness of different tiger subspecies. Based on what he had, he concluded Sunda tigers were more robust than mainland tigers.  

Unfortunately, there's not much on Sunda tigers. Apart from skull measurements, there's almost no info on the body dimensions of Bali and Java tigers. We do, however, have some information about the body dimensions of Sumatran tigers.  

How do jaguars, in the department of relative robustness, compare to Sumatran tigers? What we have strongly suggests Sumatran tigers (referring to wild adult males only) are longer. My guess is it could be 10-12 inches at the level of averages (referring to total length measured in a straight line). They also have longer (and heavier) skulls. Weightwise, however, both more or less compare. This means jaguars most probably top the table.

The problem is the information on Sumatran tigers (referring to weight) was collected about a century ago, whereas the information on jaguars is recent. The question is if the size of wild big cats can change in a period of, say, a century. What I have on tigers strongly suggests it is quite possible. This conclusion is, indirectly, confirmed by recent information about the size of jaguars: there's no question that conditions and hunting have an effect.

QUESTION

In the eighties of the last century, I was in Surinam and French Guyana. When they heard I was interested in wild animals, I was introduced to a man involved in capturing and selling wild animals. I met him in the heart of the jungle. He told me he had an official permit and added he graduated in Berlin (Germany) in 1941 (during WWII). This although he had the Dutch nationality. Meaning he most probably topped a few lists after the war. But they couldn't find him and my trade was big cats. He showed me everything he had and told me about his contacts (USA mainly). I also talked to the people trapping jaguars, pumas and ocelots. What I saw suggested jaguars in Surinam seldom exceeded 60 kg. 

A week later, however, we visited a river island close to Brazil. The island was small, densely forested and almost empty. Almost, as there was a jaguar. We stayed for 2 days. During the first night, he paid us a visit. I didn't see or sense any (indirect) aggression, meaning we were welcome to stay for the night. On the second day, his claws had left deep scars in the bark a giant tree a few feet away from the tent. Time to leave, we concluded. His prints and scratches said he was a big man, but he was the only one of that size in Surinam. 

Many years later, I visited the Naturalis Museum in Leiden (Netherlands). I measured many skulls from jaguars shot in Surinam. I also read an article written by Husson. All skulls I measured were small to medium-sized. The size of jaguars in Surinam was confirmed by Husson.  

Not so long ago, this photograph was posted. I know about angles and the effect on size, but it's clear the jaguar, allegedly poached in Surinam, was both robust and big-skulled:                


*This image is copyright of its original author


Watch the machine used to transport the jaguar, the buildings, the mud and the woman. Not typical for Surinam, but you never know. My question is if you can find out a bit more about the location and the photograph.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 11-02-2020

81 kg Atlantic Forest male named Tarobá.

Tarobá is the dominant Atlantic Forest male of the Brazilian side in the area of Foz do Iguaçú.


Onças do Iguaçú Project.

Photos of his capture by Onças do Iguaçú.

photo credits: Emilio White and Rogério Cunha


*This image is copyright of its original author


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*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 11-02-2020

@peter that jaguar is indeed from Suriname, I remember posting the picture here because I too was surprised by its dimension. You can read more about the poaching of jaguars from Suriname and the background from that picture here

The data for Amazonian jaguars from Suriname and the Guayanas is very scarce and hard to draw conclusions from, but if I had to give my thoughts on them I believe that these portions of the Amazon could potentially produce the largest jaguars of the eco-regoion, or at at least did prior to the mass poaching. Suriname used to have relatively large populations of prey items such as capybaras and white tailed deer which are large enough to sustain 80+ kg felids, those congregations of herbivores probably came from the West in the Venezuelan Llanos.

Here is a male in Suriname, whom I estimate to weight between 70 - 75 kg (based on his body compared to the capybara), after a successful hunt:


*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 11-02-2020

I'm sure he's been posted before but regardless...

115kg Male



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 11-02-2020

darting score of Pita, Joker and a Chaco Male taken from SCI




 06/2009 Paraguay, Chaco McBride Hunting Services / Rocky McBride D 160" (between the pegs)

Joker with a average head circumference taken from Almeida (27.77'') 169" (Body measured over the curves, chest girth taken on one side then multiplied)

Pita with a average head circumference taken from Almeida (27.77'') 154'' (Body measured in a straight line)


Obviously we'd want the head circumference of Joker and Pita, both would only increase their total score most likely.
But this only adds to the massive size we could assume for Joker and even that Chaco Male could be a 130+Kg male, no problem.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 11-03-2020

(11-02-2020, 03:29 PM)peter Wrote:
(11-01-2020, 03:36 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: UPDATED MEASUREMENTS OF 3 OF THE PORTO PRIMAVERA JAGUARS CAPTURED BY THE MASTER PETER CRAWSHAW.

@peter

As you requested on your post #403 for the other measurements of the 3 Porto Primavera jaguars in order to compare them with other big cats I managed to ask Peter Crawshaw more measurements of those 3 animals but Crawshaw told me that he didn't take the forearm measurements of those Porto Primavera jaguars.

But he provided me others.


NOTE: Before getting to the measurements there's a clarification to make.

Pita was captured twice and he's also that 122 kg Porto Primavera male Jaguar that aired on TV news in 1994 that I've posted here on this thread and in the Big Cat news thread, before I found out I showed the photo and the news video to Peter Crawshaw himself and he told me that male is Pita, then he checked his original archive and it was on his first capture, Crawshaw didn't even know that his capture of the male jaguar aired on TV here in Brazil in the 90's. Pita's second capture weighed 130 kg captured with Denis Sana and Antonio Platero.


Pita male.


*This image is copyright of its original author


News video of Pita males first capture by Peter Crawshaw and his team that aired here in Brazil in 1994.






With that being said lets head to the measurements method used by Crawshaw.



MEASUREMENTS METHOD

Straight Line, never following the curves of the body.

Body length: from the tip of the nostril untill the base of the tail

Tail length: measured separately.



PETER CRAWSHAW TALKS ABOUT THE OVER THE CURVES MEASUREMENT METHOD.

I already had a previous discussion with him on the jaguar measurement method I once again brought up the topic but this time I mentioned that most of people take the over the curves measure method like onçafari and others.

Here's what he told me about this method.

By Crawshaw's word: ''As I said before, you don't use measuring an animal "over the curves",  that's totally wrong. In this way, the person is deliberately increasing the size of the animal.''



CHEST CIRCUMFERENCE MEASUREMENT METHOD.

As this was also one of @peter requests on his post #403 I took advantage and managed to ask Peter Crashaw this one too.

My question was in case the animal is too large and heavy does he take the chest circumference measure by taking one side measurement of the chest and multiply it by 2 ??

Here's what he said.

by Crawshaw's words: ''No, you have to lift the body of the animal ( even if a large one ) and pass the tape measure under it in order to get the complete measurement.''




3 PORTO PRIMAVERA JAGUAR'S MEASUREMENTS.

NOTE: After he checked his original archive he told me Pita male's measurements bellow was from his first capture when he weighed 122 kg, keep in mind his second capture he weighed 130 kg.

Measurement method: Straight Line.


1 - Suely female 77 kg :

Head girth 62.0 cm.

Neck girth 53.5 cm.

Thorax girth 96 cm.

Shoulder height 78.0 cm.

Body length 129.0 cm.

Tail length 61 cm.

Full Body length 190 cm.



2 - Zezão melanistic male 110 kg :

Head girth 70.5 cm.

Neck girth 58.5 cm.

Thorax girth 99 cm.

Shoulder height 80.0 cm.

Body length 143.0 cm.

Tail length 67 cm.

Full Body length 210 cm.




3 - Pita male 122 kg :

Head girth 71.0 cm.

Neck girth 70.0 cm.

Thorax girth 114 cm.

Shoulder height 70.0 cm.

Body length 151.0 cm.

Tail length 56 cm.

Full Body length 207 cm.



Moment Crawshaw sent me the Head and Neck girth of the 3.


*This image is copyright of its original author


Comparisons:

Just like I told to Crawshaw when I saw Pita neck's girth its impressive how these animals vary on the measurements department while some might be thicker and greater in one area others could be thicker and greater on other areas of the body like in this case Pita being thicker than Joker on the neck girth.

It seems like I got a new record breaker on the jaguar's neck girth department on my books so far.

Pita got a whooping 70.0 cm on neck girth.

Pita male's neck is 4 cm thicker than Joker's 66 cm neck and Pita's neck surpasses even Almeida's largest neck girth male measurement of 68.5 cm.

Pita is also very low on the shoulders compared to 110 kg melanistic male Zezão and 77 kg female Suely, he is 10 cm lower on the shoulders compared to Zezão.

By his measurements and by what Crawshaw told me about Pita, I can say Pita was definitely a low to the ground stocky beast. A true representative of the jaguar species.



Peter Crawshaw and Pita male in 1994.


*This image is copyright of its original author

DARK JAGUAR

Very interesting post! Must have taken you some time. Many thanks for the effort. As to Crawshaw. Most biologists involved in wild big cats stay away from forums, but he decided to contribute. I'm sure it's much appreciated by many readers interested in jaguars. 

DIMENSIONS

Peter Crawshaw is one of the few biologists who measured wild big cats in a straight line. This is the correct way to measure the length of a cat. I also have no questions on chest circumference, as it's clear the jaguars were lifted in order to measure the chest circumference. The information he provided, therefore, is very reliable.   

The dimensions of the 3 wild jaguars enable us to compare them to leopards. When we have reliable information about the dimensions of Sumatran tigers, we will be able to get to a table like the one below:


*This image is copyright of its original author
 

The table has one typo (on top). It says '1989-1902', whereas it should have been '1889-1902'. 

The Maharajah of Cooch Behar measured 10 male tigers shot in Cooch Behar, the Duars and Assam in the period 1898-1902 'between pegs'. Of these, 8 were measured both 'over curves' and 'between pegs'. The average difference between both methods was 13,84 cm. 

My aim is to get to similar tables for lions, jaguars and leopards, as it's the only way to get to a reliable comparison. In order to get there, we need reliable information on the neck girth of tigers and the circumference of the front limbs of jaguars and leopards. Same for the width of the heel. Maybe you can talk to a few jaguar biologists, as measuring the heel width, the fore-arm and the upper-arm won't take a lot of time. 

RELATIVE ROBUSTNESS 

Some years ago, Tigerluver, using reliable measurements only, tried to find out a bit more about the relative robustness of different tiger subspecies. Based on what he had, he concluded Sunda tigers were more robust than mainland tigers.  

Unfortunately, there's not much on Sunda tigers. Apart from skull measurements, there's almost no info on the body dimensions of Bali and Java tigers. We do, however, have some information about the body dimensions of Sumatran tigers.  

How do jaguars, in the department of relative robustness, compare to Sumatran tigers? What we have strongly suggests Sumatran tigers (referring to wild adult males only) are longer. My guess is it could be 10-12 inches at the level of averages (referring to total length measured in a straight line). They also have longer (and heavier) skulls. Weightwise, however, both more or less compare. This means jaguars most probably top the table.

The problem is the information on Sumatran tigers (referring to weight) was collected about a century ago, whereas the information on jaguars is recent. The question is if the size of wild big cats can change in a period of, say, a century. What I have on tigers strongly suggests it is quite possible. This conclusion is, indirectly, confirmed by recent information about the size of jaguars: there's no question that conditions and hunting have an effect.

QUESTION

In the eighties of the last century, I was in Surinam and French Guyana. When they heard I was interested in wild animals, I was introduced to a man involved in capturing and selling wild animals. I met him in the heart of the jungle. He told me he had an official permit and added he graduated in Berlin (Germany) in 1941 (during WWII). This although he had the Dutch nationality. Meaning he most probably topped a few lists after the war. But they couldn't find him and my trade was big cats. He showed me everything he had and told me about his contacts (USA mainly). I also talked to the people trapping jaguars, pumas and ocelots. What I saw suggested jaguars in Surinam seldom exceeded 60 kg. 

A week later, however, we visited a river island close to Brazil. The island was small, densely forested and almost empty. Almost, as there was a jaguar. We stayed for 2 days. During the first night, he paid us a visit. I didn't see or sense any (indirect) aggression, meaning we were welcome to stay for the night. On the second day, his claws had left deep scars in the bark a giant tree a few feet away from the tent. Time to leave, we concluded. His prints and scratches said he was a big man, but he was the only one of that size in Surinam. 

Many years later, I visited the Naturalis Museum in Leiden (Netherlands). I measured many skulls from jaguars shot in Surinam. I also read an article written by Husson. All skulls I measured were small to medium-sized. The size of jaguars in Surinam was confirmed by Husson.  

Not so long ago, this photograph was posted. I know about angles and the effect on size, but it's clear the jaguar, allegedly poached in Surinam, was both robust and big-skulled:                


*This image is copyright of its original author


Watch the machine used to transport the jaguar, the buildings, the mud and the woman. Not typical for Surinam, but you never know. My question is if you can find out a bit more about the location and the photograph.


@peter

You welcome and yeah Peter Crawshaw is one of the very few Big Cats Experts to take the measurements on the very proper way, Length wise the straight lines method is a must do with him, he makes sure its everything done properly and accurate no matter how heavy the animal is. We won't get many big cats these days measured as properly as Suely, Zezão and Pita.

It took me a while cause I like to gather as much info as possible before releasing the information and very very few biologists will help until the end and that is IF THEY EVEN START. Getting measurements is completely complicated, even the single weight of the animal is a tough battle to win.

But I feel lucky enough to have contact of this living legend Expert Peter Crawshaw, he is the very best source of info I can get and learn with for big cats and he was kind enough to provide me these super valuable infos not only on sizes but also on the dynamics overall, I am learning alot with him and by the way he is writing a book.



About the comparison with the Sumatran Tiger male-wise as you mentioned I am pretty sure the S.Tiger (Sumatran Tiger) is the longer cat on the length department, tigers tend to be long cats and the jaguar despite a short cat in length it will make up on the robustness department but with the lack of S.Tigers measurements overall makes it hard to guess concerning the robustness comparisons of both animals, so I am gonna wait for the S.tigers reliable measurements and dimensions to come out in the future in order for us to make the proper comparisons.

and Its a shame there's almost no measurements infos available for neither Java nor Bali tigers with both already extinct, the Caatinga jaguars could sadly have the same fate not in a distant future if protection and conservation isn't taken heavily in Northeast Brazil.  

In Indonesia our hope is the conservation of the population of healthy Sumatran Tigers left from the isolated wild areas as much as possible.



I think the size could indeed have a certain negative effect from one time to another, it will all depend on how deep the human will explore the enviorment which sadly mostly they explore too much, poachers play no games and devast these carnivores habitats completely including their natural preys, vegetations... it all play a huge negative effect on the overall condition of a biome which takes decades to recover completely, killing natural preys plays major negative role which would already lead wild carnivores to seek domestic animals to prey while deforestation would lead wild carnivores (and non carnivores) with no options to seek human populated areas as an already negative balance effect of its natural environment.

As you mentioned the Tiger recovery in size the first one that comes in my mind is the Siberian Tiger.

I relate alot both Pantanal jaguars and Siberian Tigers on similar situations, thankfully Pantanal Jaguars already recovered its size but on the other side sadly the Siberian Tigers are yet on the recovering process with very little territory left in the Russian far east.


Pantanal jaguars being larger and on better conditions nowadays its because the 60's,70's jaguars didn't have as many protection conservation as the nowadays jaguars do and on the other hand back then they were massively poached along with its enviorment with hopes mostly under the dependency of the very weak brazilian laws against poaching crimes which nowadays is still weak and not taken as serious as it should, in Brazil the ones who mess around with nature and cause enviorment crimes most of the times IF they get arrested, they will soon be set free again if paying a sum of money or through ''negotiations'' that we'll never find out how they're still free, the enviormental crimes case is always said by the authorities that will be investigated but we never get the result of the ''investigations'' and most conclusions results in no proper punishments to the culprits.

And its not that nowadays pantanal jaguars is a ''brand new version'' or something compared to the ones of decades ago, its because today they got what they deserve in comparison and yes they're yet poached but not as heavily as before and the conservations taken throughout the country helped alot many population of animals recover thanks to the National Center for Research and Conservation of Carnivorous Mammals (CENAP/ICMBio) founded by Peter Crawshaw that despite the conservations throughout the country its also the one who publish the most published scientific studies and datas on jaguars and other carnivores in Brazil, the other projects as well that are working not only on conservation but also working hard on making the Brazilian population minds to look at the Jaguar and Puma with ''good eyes'', to change people's minds its a long process but its causing some positive effects thankfully but there's still a very long way to go.


With such help Pantanal jaguar wise their larger sizes on modern days can be taken simply by the fact that ''verified wise'' we got way more jaguars on the 120-130's kg range than in the 70's, Its already an accurate idea of way better conservation of its natural enviorment in comparison of one decade to another.

Almeida's largest male jaguar verified weighed only 119 kg and another one he considered to be the largest he estimated him to be 125 kg.

Back then in the beginning of Peter Crawshaw and George Schaller study in Acurizal Central Pantanal the jaguars they were tracking couldn't even be found alive cause they got poached by the farm owner who didn't want their study to take place on his property in the beginning, so he ordered his employees to kill the jaguars there, so Crawshaw and Schaller despite having 2 jaguars and 1 puma still collared in Acurizal, they had to give up studying jaguars in Acurizal Central Pantanal in order for the farmer stop the killings of the other jaguars and pumas there, so then they decided to find a new area for the jaguar study and they went to Poconé in Porto Jofre - Northern Pantanal.

So the poaching back then was no joke and Today its not far-fetched to make this claim with a bigger population of jaguars in Porto Jofre and in Pousada Caiman with so many large jaguars out there and I am not even counting the non-captured ones, its simple as that.


Now Lets hope the best for the Siberian Tigers to recover and achieve their full size potential back overall with the very little territory currently available for them, it will all depend on the humans.

Siberian Tigers and Caatinga Jaguars got this in common.





About that Surinam jaguar I've found him in another place and the source suggests the location of that photo was probably in Mineiros (on a mining camp) in the Surinam inland.

Size wise he is indeed an impressive specimen and my guess would be they could be similar in size with the brazilian jaguars close to the border that yet might share a similar enviornment including preys.

And since the Surinam male you saw the prints and scratches and was noted to be a big one was near Brazil I am gonna drop 2 East Amazonic jaguars from Northern Brazil although I don't quite believe on their said sizes, from Brazil those east amazonic jaguars could be the closest in size to the likes of Surinam jaguars since its situated on the south side bordering both countries and as closest as it can get compared to other regions of Brazil.




The male Jaguar bellow is an eastern Amazonic jaguar and I spent months and months questioning myself whether he could be a far Northern Cerrado jaguar or an Eastern Amazonic jaguar and thanks to Brasília é o Bicho project that I have personal contacts with they explained me that in the area of Brazil the jaguar was shot can't be Cerrado so the cat is an Eastern Amazonic jaguar.  

He was unfortunately shot to the head by fishermen but he managed to survive but unfortunately due to the damages in the eyes the jag had to be kept in captivity. He is said to be 90kg.

His weight is most likely an estimation.


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Eastern Amazonic Dark Jaguar from Belém he was captured by ICMBio, IBAMA in an urban area and caused panic to the local people thankfully he was captured and no accident occured in neither sides.

he's said to be 85 kg and 80 cm on height.

His size is verified but since the only place I got is from TV News I am skeptical to believe on his weight it 100%.

According to Leandro Silveira who also flew all the way to Belém to help the capture his age was similar to Mendanha young Cerrado male both looking for a territory to establish.


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The release


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His GPS Collar datas provided by IOP showing his paths after walking over 50 km of distance he took a break to drink water and then moved on in the immensity of the brazilian Amazon Rainforest.


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So these 2 specially the closest ones to the border could be the closest in size to a Surinam jaguar.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 11-05-2020

130 kg Sandro male, from Passo do Lontra Southern Pantanal. Just captured today by the Reprocon team!


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He had just eaten some food, so while not gorged he most definitely had a decent amount of stomach content, I'm guessing 5-10 kg. @peter could you help us determine by looking at his mid section how much do you estimate he had on stomach content?

This video shows his mid-section better:



Gustavo probably didn't understand my question regarding stomach content as I probably should've asked in Portuguese, so I'm wondering if the 130 kg was adjusted with stomach content u or whether that was the full weight. He said this jaguar was huge.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 11-05-2020

I am gonna take advantage of @Balam question to @peter regarding stomach content in Sandro male to also ask about the stomach content in Aju male.



For those who don't know Aju was suddently seen by Reprocom team limping during the tough fires times in Pantanal we're going through, so the Reprocom team decided to sedate him and take care of the burns on his paws and his health conditions.




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@peter How much would you say Aju carries in his stomach by these pics??


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Aju waking up.


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RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 11-05-2020

We already have a pretty good idea of stomach content for 130kg (full bellied) males.
I think 12kg subtraction from a 130kg Full bellied male is fair.
What exactly is "full bellied" is the hard part. Jaguars in general look much more full than most other cats, some males like Tusk have that more tapered body but other males like Edno, Brutus, Adriano, have a full body regardless if they are hungry or not.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 11-05-2020

@Pckts i completely agree with you, many biologists have described jaguars as looking "pregnant" due to their wide, barrel shape body morphology. A gorged jaguar (or any big cat for that matter) will present a protuberance in its mid section, not just a lower belly, like this:


*This image is copyright of its original author

This is also why we know López was either empty or with very little stomach content as his mid-section was flat, which was what Guy Balme said in the video (not fat like a certain individual suggested).

For Sandro is clear that he has a decent amount of stomach content, but he isn't gorged. I think 7 kg may be accurate.