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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Printable Version

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RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-01-2020

Already edited the post above and added Xavante cerrado male and also regarding the 118kg cerrado male I added a ''1.'' to the source due to him mentioning that cerrado jaguar to one of the people who captures jaguars (including cerrado ones) ''Gediendson'' and he didn't denied it in the conversation. So its still reliable.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - TheNormalGuy - 06-01-2020

What does IOP and NEX stands for ?


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-01-2020

(06-01-2020, 08:52 PM)TheNormalGuy Wrote: What does IOP and NEX stands for ?

Institute Onça Pintada and NEX no Extinction, the organizations that capture and track Cerrado jaguars.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-01-2020

(06-01-2020, 08:46 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Modern weights of male jaguars, Cerrado. Sample of 10 and a mean of 101.45:


*This image is copyright of its original author

The average weight is 87.5kg

Some have the same ID but were captured in different months of the same year so you just add a (2) on the second one with the same ID.

Macharão 2 , 151.633 (2), 150.260 (2) males are missing.



Macharão 2 male weights 87.5kg (average size) 

151.633 (2) male weights 104kg


150.260 (2) male weights 80KG



So it will be 13 cerrado males in total.


IOP and NEX are the conservation mainly on Cerrado jaguars and Maned Wolves as well.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-01-2020

(06-01-2020, 09:53 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @Dark Jaguar I have added the other three weights, the mean is around 99 kg, it didn't drop too much due to the newer weights we've gotten from Tiago and other large males!


Ok, keep that 99kg average. By looking at that table and comparing ''past and present'' I have a slight impression modern cerrado jaguars average size is larger than back in 2000-2004.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-01-2020

(06-01-2020, 10:08 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(06-01-2020, 10:03 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(06-01-2020, 09:53 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: @Dark Jaguar I have added the other three weights, the mean is around 99 kg, it didn't drop too much due to the newer weights we've gotten from Tiago and other large males!


Ok, keep that 99kg average. By looking at that table and comparing ''past and present'' I have a slight impression modern cerrado jaguars average size is larger than back in  2000-2004.

This phenomenon seems to be the case with multiple jaguar populations in Brazil which means that the conservational efforts are working greatly. I believe that Pantanal, Atlantic forest and Cerrado jaguars are still in the process of recovering their weight potential as newer generations are born into ecosystems with plenty of prey selection and abundance and better management and conservational protection. Trust me it's a matter of time before a 160 kg jaguar is captured in Pantanal.

Also, in terms of the Llanos, I've noticed that the pressure of jaguars in Venezuela is causing them to shrink in size, but in Colombia where there is more protection, the jaguars seem to be flourishing and growing huge as well. It's a shame there haven't been any captures yet but trust me when I say those jaguars will surprise us all, much like the ones from the dry forests of Bolivia.

Yeah these jaguars lived rough moments in the past. The 20th century was a nightmare for wild cats leading some of them directly to extinction and some others were left critically endangered, I believe if they launch conservation projects to the Llanos throughout the whole area with agreements of all parts with the countries involved, Llanos jaguars and envirorment in the area will thrive back again producing large sized animals with plenty of prey and territory for sure.

And don't forget to add Amazonic and Caatinga jags on that list too. They can impress us even if for a little bit.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-02-2020

@OncaAtrox  Here are a few adjustments for the pantanal males table.

Adriano and Juru would make more sense the source being Panthera from north since Onças do Rio Negro is from south pantanal.


Yapú male weighed 110kg on his last capture  ( CHECK POST #205 )


https://www.facebook.com/oncasdorionegro/posts/1983305481691546


The 102kg male's name is Mancha Preta*



Males to add.

Cotim male 124kg - ( area Southern P. /source onças do rio negro )

Jairzão male 6 years old 82kg - ( area Nothern P. / source Adriano Gambarini )

Scare male 115kg ( Not sure if he is the 115kg unnamed male you added, is he?? ) - ( area Southern P./ source onças do rio negro )


I was gonna add Zumbi and M05 males (both from north monitored by Panthera) but they're still young, they'll probably get their collars replaced and will be weighed again as adults. ( and hopefully the data will be shared to us Laughing  )


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-02-2020

This table will only increase more and more and I hope the cerrado male's table increase as well.

Onçafari will do a capture soon as they said in the live and maybe they will recapture Joker again and finally weight him.

I hope they capture the brothers Grandão and Oreia too.

But one capture I would die to see would be Colombiano's. but I don't know if he's still around.

Onçafaris capture of December 2019 the only male captured was Sombra 122kg, I hope this time there will be more males but one female I am curious to know is Jeffa, she's massive.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-02-2020

(06-02-2020, 02:55 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote: I also double-checked and the male I had before as unnamed is actually Susto, so he is different from Scare:


*This image is copyright of its original author

Actually that's the same male as scare.

Susto means Scare in portuguese thus its the same male, check him out bellow.




*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-04-2020

Here you'll see the 158kg Jaguar quoted, let's do some research to find more out about it.

http://www.bio-nica.info/Mammalia/Panthera_onca.pdf

This is Kevin Seymour's study from 1989
On page 2 he say's
"individuals 130kg to 158kg occasionally are reported (Guggisberg, 1975; Perry, 1970)

I'll try to learn more on these sources tomorrow to see if we can find out anything on the 158kg Jaguar reported.

Edit: I just ordered "Wild Cats of the World" which is Guggisberg's book but if anyone has access to "The World Of the Jaguar" from Perry, that is Perry's Study.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-04-2020

(06-04-2020, 04:33 AM)Pckts Wrote: Here you'll see the 158kg Jaguar quoted, let's do some research to find more out about it.

http://www.bio-nica.info/Mammalia/Panthera_onca.pdf

This is Kevin Seymour's study from 1989
On page 2 he say's
"individuals 130kg to 158kg occasionally are reported (Guggisberg, 1975; Perry, 1970)

I'll try to learn more on these sources tomorrow to see if we can find out anything on the 158kg Jaguar reported.

Edit: I just ordered "Wild Cats of the World" which is Guggisberg's book but if anyone has access to "The World Of the Jaguar" from Perry, that is Perry's Study.

I believe this cattle killer named Asseisono, hunted by Siemel, was quoted at 158 kg, though judging by the picture the jaguar does appear full-bellied:


*This image is copyright of its original author


Heaviest claimed jaguar from the Venezuelan Llanos:


*This image is copyright of its original author


I personally believe that such sizes could be plausible judging by the fact that jaguars had to shrink in size dramatically to survive the Pleistocene mass extinction driven by the reduction in the prey mass biomass they relied on. Nonetheless, weights like the ones quoted should be taken with a grain of salt.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-04-2020

When the jaguars achieve that weight we gotta also see how often this happens for example lets say there's a 160kg+ male verified in pantanal, is he the only one or would there be more on that size? its about prey abundance and competition ( in this case with men too in order to get the large prey the cattle ) but preys in abundance such as caimans that are doing pretty good today in numbers are also really important and plays a major role for modern pantanal jaguars attain the size they got specially up north.

I would be very glad if I see a MODERN 160kg+ in Pantanal or Llanos male but at same time I will ask myself how often is it because one thing I know for certain is that it is normal on modern jaguars for Pantanal males to reach 130kg and Cerrado males to reach 110kg, that is something I am sure of. Its something that 40 years ago would happen very occasionally ( many verified and confirmed ones like today ) but not today. But for those tremendous size there has to be good variety of genes as well as alot of prey base and which some of it specially pecaries are still illegally poached.

With that being said, if there was massive jaguars not too long ago, yes I think modern jaguars with a very good prey base specially large ones can attain massive sizes like that but human's interuptions may not let that happen and jaguars gotta adapt to what they have today.



@"OncaAtrox" That man-eater jag is a beast.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-04-2020

@Dark Jaguar yes, it'd be interesting to know how common those huge jaguars would be. I believe jaguars don't necessarily need cattle to get big, but of a constant supply of medium-sized prey like capybara, peccary, caiman, and deer they can consume regularly. For this, the populations of those animals have to be plentiful. A jaguar that kills a prey of 60 kg every fourth day and consumes 40 to 50 kg in each sitting will grow big, especially during its developmental years, there is no need for cattle.

And what you said about genetic diversity is key, genes are what determine the health and good morphology of these jaguars, do corridors are essential to allow the travel of different populations into different areas.

In my opinion, as long as there are 10% monster jaguars in a population that successfully breed with different females and their cubs have access to the plentiful prey I described before, those cubs would grow to probably attain similar large sizes increasing steadily the overall weight average of that population.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 06-04-2020

@"OncaAtrox"

Yeah jaguars don't need cattle to get large the cattles case is a consequence by humans, jaguars see them available, some will go for it, in Cerrado the jaguars monitored by IOP don't even use the huge PNE ( Parque Nacional das Emas ) area that much, they instead reside more often the border areas because its closer to farm and rural areas due to the food offer.


*This image is copyright of its original author


note: Richard cerrado male rules the south area though.


Exactly, The viable genetic has to be diverse in order for them not to start mating only with relatives and weakens the genes in a long term, there has to be good numbers to prevent this, vast territory and corridors are essential keys as well.

In southern cerrado near PNE there's a corridor through the Araguaia river that takes cerrado jaguars all the way up to Amazon.

The Araguaia river is the best corridor they got cause it connects the 2 largest biomes of the country: Cerrado and Amazon.

Watch this video





Yeah that's a good point the siberian tiger is a similar situation to the jaguars I used to say that alot in the past.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 06-04-2020

@Dark Jaguar this is why I'm so intrigued about the size of the Aurora jaguars, the people who own the hato have claimed that there areoare 42,000 heads of capybara, almost 3,000 white tailed deer, thousands of spectacle caiman, as well as strong presence of peccary, feral hog and feral horse, tapirs have also been found in the reserve. With such an amount of prey there is no wonder why those jaguars grow so big. It also important to highlight that despite the heavy presence of cattle in the reserve, jaguars do not hunt them as they don't don't see the need to do so when they have other options available that won't get them into trouble.

I'm also extremely intrigued about the dynamics of wild horses and jaguars in the Llano. Is predation occuring? And if so at what rate?

I will watch that video later today, thanks for the information on Cerrado jaguars, I had no idea they preferred the outlines of the reserve closer to human activity.