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Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Printable Version

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RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-22-2020

(05-22-2020, 10:35 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 10:31 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 10:18 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 09:43 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 07:41 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 06:54 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: OncaAtrox
(05-22-2020, 05:56 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 05:43 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-22-2020, 05:30 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: Yapu Pantanal male 110kg

Onças do Rio Negro

year of post: 2018


https://www.facebook.com/oncasdorionegro/posts/1983305481691546

''Photos of Yapu's first capture. A huge male weighing 110kgs. It's impressive the size of the Pantanal males.''



Look at those shoulders of Yapu.


*This image is copyright of its original author




*This image is copyright of its original author




Massive Head


*This image is copyright of its original author





I think Yapu was captured other times.

He must be way above that weight now, he's got an impressive build. Btw, do you have any more info on Matheus male? Last time he was weighed he was 134 kg, little is known about him.


Yeah Matheus is a hell of a beast, Unfortunatelly I don't know if he was captured once again and even if he was, it also takes the projects to reveal his weight to the public as well.

About Matheus life the only thing I know is that he took over the territory that used to be ruled by the deceased 130kg Sossego male in southern Pantanal around Fazenda Barranco Alto. Sossego was poached shot to death with bullets fractures into his skull ( one more beast lost to the poachers ). Thus letting his territory vacant which led Matheus male to take it over.


130kg Deceased  Majestic Sossego male


*This image is copyright of its original author




@OncaAtrox

Not only those 2 were on the 130's I am sure Colombiano is way far above that range, Macho A like you said is propably near that range too and don't forget the brothers Oreia and Grandão which both are quite robust with Grandão being the larger one as his name already says ( the big one in portuguese ).

About Colombiano in that area yeah he was but south Pantanal is massive, these areas are huge. areas like Delta do Salobra got different males ( I know 2, Prainha and Neo males ) and also to the entrance of Pantanal Cáceres as you saw in the jaguars of brazil thread, that area is very near to urban area with only a lake separating them and is very unusual to see jaguars there. One male was surprisingly recently seen there, maybe that male got pushed all the way to Cárceres due to the tough competition in the central areas. So these males range a huge territory.

One example by the radio collar map Footages of the Cerrado jaguars shown by Leandro you can see that there's a moment when Rogério cerrado male left his area to find Ariane cerrado female, then Tiago cerrado male ventured into Rogério's territory while he was absent for a while  then Tiago left.

I am sure with Pantanal jaguars is no different, sometimes one male is just checking up the others territory then leaves after picking up the scent of that lands ruler. back in the years when Sossego was alive he was seen in that area more common and sired cubs there with Jeffa large female and others.



Sossego relaxing at Barranco Alto farm.






you understand portuguese here's the sad news of Sossego's death. found floating on the black river without his collar.





I was thinking of doing a comprehensive list of jaguar weights provided by Oncafari and Oncas do Rio Negro (my keyboard is in English don't mind the c), to update the weights from Almeida that people always go back to get information on the average Pantanal jaguar, your knowledge and help o this would be greatly appreciated. Here are the following weights from Oncafari based on 9 males captured:

107 - Apache
120 - Brutus
138 - Felino
106,3 - Pirata
131,06 - Shaka
120 - Sombra
110 - Ziko
120 - Juru
130 - Adriano (not sure if he is tracked by Oncafari though)

Not sure if I'm missing more captured males that you can add to the list.
Based on those initial 9 males the average is 120,26 kg. Way above the supposedly 99 kg by Almeida, although his sample comprised of 24 individuals so we'll need more data to properly challenge the Almeida average. In this list I didn't include the Oncas do Rio Negro data because I'm not the most update with it.

Juru and Adriano are males from northern Pantanal though.

Sombra male on his last capture in December last year weighed 122kg. Check the link bellow.

https://oncafari.org/2020/01/05/campanha-de-capturas-de-dezembro-conheca-as-novas-oncas-pintadas-monitoradas-pelo-oncafari/

That 120kg of Sombra male was on his prior capture in 2017. They didn't update their webpage. So let's stick with the 122kg for Sombra.

Add on your list Brazuca male 112kg and Nati male 110kg both southern pantanal males whom were collared by Onçafari project but both males didn't habituated for that long in the Caiman Ecological Refuge being monitored just out of the border probably because of the arrival of Xavier male which gave tough times to the males of the area. Xavier was no joke during his prime and its a shame he wasn't weighed.

Four more males to be added on your list are the misterious pantanal males we discussed in the jaguars of Brazil thread confirmed to be one of 130kg and the other 135kg. And also Mancha-Preta male 102kg and M&M male I saw he weights 121kg and he is monitored by Onças do Rio Negro.

https://www.facebook.com/oncasdorionegro/posts/1919242731431155

121kg M&M Male.

*This image is copyright of its original author



About the average size due to the lack of enough infos and datas published for the public unfortunately. I still think the average Pantanal male is 105kg because for each small pantanal male of 100kg or slightly bellow, there are 3 larger ones. The Almeida's average was 90kg more than 40 years ago with jaguars on an enviornment and conditions I don't even wanna talk about, Peter Crawshaw himself knows what I am talking about cause he saw it all in person back then. They don't average 90kg anymore, NO WAY. People should bury that outdated claim nowadays once and for all.

Pantanal jaguars got the size they deserve TODAY.

you should also add Matheus 134kg and Sossego 130kg males. Onças do Rio Negro monitores both ( not Sossego anymore sadly ).


And from northern pantanal besides Juru and Adriano there's also that 148kg empty male. I think just the nowadays northern Pantanal males would be enough to TANK these outdated Almeida's weight datas, and if you add up the Southern Pantanal males it will be overkill  Cool  


Too bad there are very few northern pantanal males verified, the much larger ones you'll find there.


There are more jaguars to be add up to your list but it will take some time to gather them ALL.



And remember Cerrado jaguars average 87.5kg confirmed by IOP in a study probably prior to that of the comparison with the Cerrado Puma with not just 2 males because when they compare the cats sizes and habits on that study both cat's average sizes are already settled. So there was definitely a prior separated study on just their average sizes in depth otherwise they wouldn't make that ''an average sized cerrado jaguar of 87.5kg'' claim on their comparison study. And these studies about Cerrado jaguars were part of the requirements of obtaining PHD in animal biology in the university of Brasília so they should be taken completely serious.

I wish I could get my hands on those files. :)

Okay perfect! Once I have some free time I will sit down and do a compilation for both Northern and Southern Pantanal jaguars. This should be interesting :)

Great and also big Cerrado males overlap with a few Pantanal males, large cerrado ones go from 105kg to 110kg with one confirmed to be 118kg as well as the misterious massive Tiago cerrado male who unfortunately nobody knows his size except Leandro and IOP.

But let's separate them by populations.

I will try to contact directly members from Onçafari and Rio Negro to get direct quotes from them if I can too. If we can get the weight for Tiago that would be even better.

Please do it. I already tried to get Tiago cerrado male's weight but with no success so far. I think Leandro is more active on Facebook.

About Onçafari It would be AWESOME to get the measurements of the likes of Sombra male, Zico male, Brutus male...

Onças do Rio Negro they got more large males to be unveiled as you can see in some of those in the compilation I showed you in Jags of Brazil thread.

I think more males measurements of body/tail/head length, chest/neck circumference, shoulder height and total height would be a fantastic addition.

I just think they should put a page on their websites with all these details cause THEY KNOW some people who love the species get interested on these details and sadly don't get any access to the datas, and also to show people how good their work is doing cause large jaguars means good conservation and how good jaguars natural environment is evolving nowadays so providing the datas of the animals they wanna save and preserve to the public is a Win-Win situation if you ask me.

Too bad they don't think the same. but lets keep our hopes up and ''Prey on'' these datas.   Evil


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

@OncaAtrox

By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today? Its the last day.
 
Same time at 6:30 PM (Brazil time zone)

The last few days wasn't that much ''all about jaguar'' as the first day but they were good with amazing pure source of informations, datas and content on other species and wildlife. but I think today as the last day it will have more jaguars involved just like the first day.

Don't forget that tomorrow there will be the ''Bafo de Onças''  live of Onças do Iguaçú project with the guests of Argentinian Proyecto Yaguarete, Peter Crawshaw himself and others but It'll be on facebook tomorrow at 7:00 PM (Brazil time zone).


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 12:43 AM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 12:36 AM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox

By the way are you gonna watch OnçaTalks today? Its the last day.
 
Same time at 6:30 PM (Brazil time zone)

The last few days wasn't that much ''all about jaguar'' as the first day but they were good with amazing pure source of informations, datas and content on other species and wildlife. but I think today as the last day it will have more jaguars involved just like the first day.

Don't forget that tomorrow there will be the ''Bafo de Onças''  live of Onças do Iguaçú project with the guests of Argentinian Proyecto Yaguarete, Peter Crawshaw himself and others but It'll be on facebook tomorrow at 7:00 PM (Brazil time zone).

I will be turning in, the one two days ago was really interesting as it dealt with the reintroduction of jaguars in Iberá, that is another project to look out for.


@OncaAtrox

Some lives I didn't watch live due to the slow internet others I did.

Yeah that project hopefully will rebuild Iberá wildlife really nicely.

I also enjoyed the Tamar project of Turtles I already visited their project sanctuary of turtles and marine wildlife and its fantastic.

All topics and guests were/are amazing on the lives.

By the way did you get your response on the buffallo predation? I don't recall them talking about buffalos.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - peter - 05-23-2020

ONCA

Great chart! Many thanks on behalf of all interested. Here's a few ideas.

1 - Add capture dates. This will enable readers to check the data and contact those involved in the capture.

2 - If it's available, add info on age, length and the circumference of the skull, neck and chest. In all big cat species, there's a distinct difference between young adults, adults and old individuals. 

3 - Add a table with the details of jaguars captured before 2000. 

4 - If the information needed is available, add tables with the details of jaguars (and pumas) captured in other regions. 

The more we know, the better the chance to get to solid conclusions in the long run.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

@OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.   Mysterious

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it. Cool


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 05-23-2020

@peter thanks alot for the feedback! I will try to add the capture dates as well as information on their ages, I think @Dark Jaguar could help me here. Unfortunately, these organizations very seldomly release information on measurements so we know very little of their body or skull size. I'm still in the process of contacting different people involved in the captures to get information on measurements and make a separate table.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 07:23 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 07:17 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.   Mysterious

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it. Cool

You're right, I will go back and add more weights. This will take me a while to complete but the most information we have available the better

Yes, the live was cut short. I believe they had issues with the connection, but today there's this one:


And we'll be expecting to see what Peter Crawshaw tells you!

Yes you'll fill up this table with many jaguars weight and anything you need just ask me, I'll do what I can to contribute.

That live will be around at same time as Onças do Iguaçú ''Bafo de Onça'' live Unexpected


But I will watch the Onças do Iguaçú one.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 07:17 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.   Mysterious

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it. Cool

I'm almost done updating the table with all the weights from this thread, but there is one that I'm hesitant to add. According to this news story, this 140 kg male jaguar was killed in a road crash. I don't doubt that such weight is possible but the source might be questionable, what do you think?
https://diarionline.com.br/?s=noticia&id=115578#.Xlfp-w_zEdA.whatsapp


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 09:46 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 07:17 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.   Mysterious

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it. Cool

I'm almost done updating the table with all the weights from these thread, but there is one that I'm hesitant to add. According to this news story, this 140 kg male jaguar was killed in a road crash. I don't doubt that such weight is possible but the source might be questionable, what do you think?
https://diarionline.com.br/?s=noticia&id=115578#.Xlfp-w_zEdA.whatsapp

This jaguar I searched in many brazilian news pages to get more details on how he was weighed and by who or even to find extra photos other than that one but I didn't find anything different than that of the link you sent. They only stated it weights 140kg and thats all.

Back when it happened a few facebook pages about jags posted this tragedy as well.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 10:13 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Here is the updated table with all the data gathered throughout this tread. @peter, as per your request I have included weights and weights estimates provided by the entities who weighed the jaguars, many of them didn't publish information on weights hence the incomplete row.

The new average is therefor 118.89 kg for a sample of 32 individuals. I decided not to include the 140 kg male that was ran by a car due to source accuracy. Nonetheless, if that male was to be added the average would be 119.53 with a sample of 33.

As stated before I will continuously update the table as new weights are released, that way we will have a better understanding an idea these jaguars with updated data.


*This image is copyright of its original author

There are a few males you have to just switch the area for example take all jags monitored by onças do rio negro and switch to south pantanal area, Onças do rio negro monitores the southern area I think very little northern Pantanal males sizes were unveiled.

It would be cool to do a separated on females, Cerrado jags...

Did you catch the males from the table I posted?


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 10:40 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 10:23 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 10:13 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote: Here is the updated table with all the data gathered throughout this tread. @peter, as per your request I have included weights and weights estimates provided by the entities who weighed the jaguars, many of them didn't publish information on weights hence the incomplete row.

The new average is therefor 118.89 kg for a sample of 32 individuals. I decided not to include the 140 kg male that was ran by a car due to source accuracy. Nonetheless, if that male was to be added the average would be 119.53 with a sample of 33.

As stated before I will continuously update the table as new weights are released, that way we will have a better understanding an idea these jaguars with updated data.


*This image is copyright of its original author

There are a few males you have to just switch the area for example take all jags monitored by onças do rio negro and switch to south pantanal area, Onças do rio negro monitores the southern area I think very little northern Pantanal males sizes were unveiled.

It would be cool to do a separated on females, Cerrado jags...

Did you catch the males from the table I posted?

I just updated the table, I don't think I saw your table, but feel free to repost it again I might've missed it.

Just one more thing to switch on your table Juru and Adriano are northern Pantanal males.



The table is on my post #160 back then I didn't know how to download it and post here directly and also the infos is all in portuguese so I had to translate everything and do it all by typing directly from the info to post here.



The source link pdf of Mariana Furtado just broke for some reason and I can't download it anymore. http://jaguar.org.br/wp-content/uploads/publicacoes/Furtado_2010.pdf    


Is this link working for you??


But thank God I typed everything from the tables and posted here.

Also from my post #160 there are a few Cerrado and Amazonic jaguars too on the tables above the Pantanal ones, those jaguars were all captured from 2000 to 2009.


Most of their their identification aren't with names but with codes. I am gonna repost the Pantanal ones table, Check bellow.


NOTE: I am not sure which section ( north/south ) these pantanal jaguars are from and since the link broke it would be a little hard to find out, so maybe you could just put ''unknown'' regarding their areas.




TABLE 3 - Pantanal Jag

 Characterization (sex, age and weight), date of capture, anesthetic dose administered and monitoring period for jaguars captured between October 2003 and November 2008 in the Pantanal (PAN). Different dates for the same individual refer to the capture and subsequent recapture.

AD =  Anesthetic Dose
MT = Monitoring Time (months)
Ages -   Cu = Cub          S-A =  Sub-Adult            


Pantanal Jag. Table

ID               Studing area     Gender         Capture Date         Age       Weight (kg)         AD        MT(months)
150.880         PAN                  M                 Oc-21-03            Ad            85                   ...               2
150.842          PAN                 F                  Oct-23-03           Ad            75                  ...              38  
150.842          PAN                F                  Jan-05-07            Ad            77                 10,4            38
150.793          PAN                M                Oct-26-03            Ad            110                 ...               39
150.811          PAN                F                  Oct-26-03           Ad             70                 ...                24
151.353          PAN                M                Dec-05-04           Ad             94                  8,5             36    
151.353          PAN                M                Mar-30-06            Ad             96                11,4             36
151.343          PAN                F                Jun-17-05             Yo             40                  9,2              4        
151.343          PAN                 F                Oct-8-05              S-A            54                 10,5             4
151.93            PAN                 F                 Jun-18-05          Ad             76                  14,8            39
151.93            PAN                 F                 Jan-20-08           Ad             71                  9,6            39
151.362          PAN                 F                 Dec-03-05           Ad             86                 9,7             35
151.362          PAN                 F                 Apr-01-08           Ad              90                7,8              35
151.263          PAN                 M               Jan-26-06            Ad             104               8,6               5
151.374          PAN                 M               Feb-23-06           Ad             112                7,1             17
150.872         PAN                   F                Feb-26-06           Yo              60                11,6           31     
150.872         PAN                   F                 Jun-08-06          S-A            63                 9,5            31
150.872         PAN                   F                Sep-20-06          S-A             71                9,8              31                       
 150.872        PAN                  F                Nov-14-07          Ad              75                8,0               31
151.452         PAN                  F                Apr-24-06           Yo               46                10,9            7
151.452         PAN                  F               Jul-28-06              Yo               56                7,1             7
151.341         PAN                  F               Apr-24-06            Yo               50                12,0             6   
151.341        PAN                    F              Sep-22-06            S-A              74                 8,1             6
151.443        PAN                    F                Jun-03-06            Ad              70             11,4             19
151.443        PAN                    F               Jan-06-07             Ad              86              7,0             19
151.422        PAN                   F               Jun-05-06             S-A             62                9,7              1
Jovem          PAN                   M              Jan-25-07              Yo               60               10,7            ...
151.351        PAN                  F               Jan-26-07               Ad              80                8,7             ...
151.762        PAN                  M             Nov-03-07             Ad               102               7,8              ...
Filhote1        PAN                    F              Nov-12-07             Cu               ...                   ...               ...
151.824       PAN                   F               Nov-12-07             Ad               ...                  ...              ...  
Filhote        PAN                     F               Jan-23-08             Cu               36                6,1              ...      
151.533       PAN                   F              Nov-18-08             Ad               77               10,4             14


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - peter - 05-23-2020

(05-23-2020, 10:03 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 09:58 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 09:46 PM)OncaAtrox Wrote:
(05-23-2020, 07:17 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: @OncaAtrox


If you go back to the previous pages you'll find more Pantanal males weight.

What happened to the live last night? I heard it shut down suddently is it true? theres only 30min of recorded video.   Mysterious

Tonight I am gonna make questions to Peter Crawshaw, hopefully they'll answer it. Cool

I'm almost done updating the table with all the weights from these thread, but there is one that I'm hesitant to add. According to this news story, this 140 kg male jaguar was killed in a road crash. I don't doubt that such weight is possible but the source might be questionable, what do you think?
https://diarionline.com.br/?s=noticia&id=115578#.Xlfp-w_zEdA.whatsapp

This jaguar I searched in many brazilian news pages to get more details on how he was weighed and by who or even to find extra photos other than that one but I didn't find anything different than that of the link you sent. They only stated it weights 140kg and thats all.

Back when it happened a few facebook pages about jags posted this tragedy as well.

Yes, so sad that such a big male had to die that way. I won't include him in the table just because the weight wasn't provided by an conversational entity or scientific team, nonetheless thanks for your answer!

ONCA

You can solve the reliability problem by adding a number after every weight. If the information is reliable, add a 1. If you're not quite sure, add a 2 (moderate reliability). If you have severe doubts (referring to weights in books or newspaper reports), add a 3. In this way, information will not be lost.  

The new table looks great! If you can produce tables for every region, the result will be overview. 

In a healthy system, big cats, even within regions, usually show a lot of individual variation. Size is affected by many factors. About a century ago, Nepal male tigers had about 4 inches on tigers shot in northern India (referring to total length measured 'over curves'). The reason was tigers were not hunted in Nepal, whereas they were in northern India. Today, tigers in northern India, if anything, are as large as those in Nepal. The main reason is conservation (protection and well-stocked reserves).    

My guess is stress has a profound effect on size. Stress is a result of many variables. In India and Nepal, the effect (on size) was quite limited. In Russia, where tigers were nearly hunted to extinction for nearly half a century (1890-1940), it wasn't. In wild tigers, a (genetic) bottleneck usually results in a lack of individual variation. The effect of a bottleneck is often seen in captive representatives of a subspecies affected by a bottleneck. Captive Amur tigers, for example, show as much variation as in other tiger subspecies. They're also taller, longer and heavier (referring to averages) than all other tiger subspecies.   

Jaguars, like lions, tigers and leopards, show a considerable amount of individual and regional variation. Good information is needed to get to sound conclusions. The more we know, the better.


RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Dark Jaguar - 05-24-2020

@OncaAtrox

You welcome Lol  This table is gonna get massive for sure.

When you make the tables of Cerrado jaguars let me know. This population I am gonna get more involved.



By the way check out how Brutus recapture was. ( By Onças do Rio Negro )

credits: Gediendson

''Recapture of the Brutos to check the collar and perform the harvest and freezing of semen for our wild jaguar's germplasm bank.
its very good when we reach our goal already on the first night.???
In the first catch the animal weighed 110 kg and after a month it is already 120 kg.''




















*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Balam - 05-28-2020

Croissant is a jaguar that inhabits Iguazu in the border between Argentina and Brazil. He is estimated to be around 6 years of age, someone asked for his weight, in 2018 Oncasdoiguacu weighed him and at 4 years of age, he weighed 73 kg.


*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Modern Weights and Measurements of Jaguars - Pckts - 06-01-2020

Another Pantanal Monster

*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author


*This image is copyright of its original author