(01-18-2023, 04:54 AM)Styx38 Wrote:

(01-18-2023, 04:34 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(01-18-2023, 04:00 AM)Styx38 Wrote:

(01-17-2023, 09:29 PM)Pckts Wrote: Like I mentioned, Harrington’s quote in regards to 90kg Persian weight isn’t based off an individual, just a species specific claim.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

That being said, it’s a great book on Iranian parks and wildlife. Highly recommended if you can find it.

Here it is saying that the 90 kg Leopard was a recorded weight.

"Leopards attain larger size in the mountains of Iran and central Asia , with recorded weights for males up to 90 kg ."

Wild Cats: Status Survey and Conservation Action Plan - Page 44

Wild Cats is not a first hand source, simply a collection of available data available to the author. The alleged 90kg figure is cited to  Harringtons book who who makes no mention of an actual individual, just a round figure the species can obtain.
You need mention of whom recorded it, it's actual weight, verification of weight and means of capture.  
As of now, the largest provided weight with source is 88kg outside of the *115kg alleged Leopard* which has been shifted to 95kgs *ish*

Don't forget the 91 kg Leopard and the 90 kg Leopard in Diyabakir, Turkey.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

(01-21-2023, 11:28 PM)Luipaard Wrote: @Pckts 

Here's the official report of the injured Persian leopard:

*This image is copyright of its original author

And here's the translated version:

*This image is copyright of its original author

In the last paragraph it is said they wanted to put the cat down humanely. This confirms Iman Memarian's messages he sent us - i.e. that the leopard weighed 95kg at the time of euthanasia and 115kg at the time of his capture.

(01-22-2023, 04:24 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(01-21-2023, 11:28 PM)Luipaard Wrote: @Pckts 

Here's the official report of the injured Persian leopard:

*This image is copyright of its original author

And here's the translated version:

*This image is copyright of its original author

In the last paragraph it is said they wanted to put the cat down humanely. This confirms Iman Memarian's messages he sent us - i.e. that the leopard weighed 95kg at the time of euthanasia and 115kg at the time of his capture.

The only weight listed is 95kg and that’s not at the time of euthanasia, that’s the investigative procedure to determine a recommendation in which euthanasia was recommended.

No measurements provided so it again brings up if it was weighed and the actual procedure used to weigh it. Let alone the 115kg claim that still hasn’t been substantiated in any form.
And being at a small animal hospital I’m curious what their scale capacity was and if one was present?

Quote:The only weight listed is 95kg and that’s not at the time of euthanasia, that’s the investigative procedure to determine a recommendation in which euthanasia was recommended.

Quote:No measurements provided so it again brings up if it was weighed and the actual procedure used to weigh it. Let alone the 115kg claim that still hasn’t been substantiated in any form. And being at a small animal hospital I’m curious what their scale capacity was and if one was present?

(01-22-2023, 09:36 PM)Luipaard Wrote:

(01-22-2023, 04:24 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(01-21-2023, 11:28 PM)Luipaard Wrote: @Pckts 

Here's the official report of the injured Persian leopard:

*This image is copyright of its original author

And here's the translated version:

*This image is copyright of its original author

In the last paragraph it is said they wanted to put the cat down humanely. This confirms Iman Memarian's messages he sent us - i.e. that the leopard weighed 95kg at the time of euthanasia and 115kg at the time of his capture.

The only weight listed is 95kg and that’s not at the time of euthanasia, that’s the investigative procedure to determine a recommendation in which euthanasia was recommended.

No measurements provided so it again brings up if it was weighed and the actual procedure used to weigh it. Let alone the 115kg claim that still hasn’t been substantiated in any form.
And being at a small animal hospital I’m curious what their scale capacity was and if one was present?

Quote:The only weight listed is 95kg and that’s not at the time of euthanasia, that’s the investigative procedure to determine a recommendation in which euthanasia was recommended.

He weighed 95kg around the time there's was nothing they could do except put it out of its misery. So this is more or less around his euthanasia. We've all seen the photos where he's an emaciated cat so one might wonder his actual weight in a healthy condition.

Quote:No measurements provided so it again brings up if it was weighed and the actual procedure used to weigh it. Let alone the 115kg claim that still hasn’t been substantiated in any form. And being at a small animal hospital I’m curious what their scale capacity was and if one was present?

You just received an offical report signed by wildlife veterinarian Iman Memarian who provided both of us all the info behind this cat and two more professors. You cannot expect body measurements to be provided in a clinical report.

I've seen other animals being brought in such as the heavier Syrian brown bear. Not saying it was at the same hospital but still. Also human scales already surpass 100kg so why do you doubt the capacity in this case?

You now question if they even weighed the cat but it honestly doesn't get more official than this report.

(01-22-2023, 04:24 PM)Pckts Wrote: The only weight listed is 95kg and that’s not at the time of euthanasia, that’s the investigative procedure to determine a recommendation in which euthanasia was recommended.

(01-23-2023, 04:32 AM)AndresVida Wrote:

(01-22-2023, 04:24 PM)Pckts Wrote: The only weight listed is 95kg and that’s not at the time of euthanasia, that’s the investigative procedure to determine a recommendation in which euthanasia was recommended.

Imam Memarian said himself that at the day of the euthanasia the leopard was about 98 kgs or something around that.

the site which includes the paper shared by luipaard says 98 kgs .

. این پلنگ نر 98 کیلویی یکی از دستهاش قطع، دو پایش به صورت کامل فلج، دندانهایش شکسته و نخاعش قطع شده بود. همه این آسیب ها را تعدادی انسان به این جانور بی پناه وارد کرده بودند


translated :


 "This 98 kg male leopard had one of his arms amputated, two legs completely paralyzed, his teeth broken and his spinal cord severed. All these damages were caused by a number of people to this helpless animal"

http://hakimemehr.ir/fa/news/15029/%D9%82%D8%B5%D9%87-%D8%AF%D8%B1%D8%AF%D9%86%D8%A7%DA%A9-%D9%BE%D9%84%D9%86%DA%AF%DB%8C-%DA%A9%D9%87-%D9%82%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%B1-%D8%A7%D8%B3%D8%AA-%D8%AE%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%B5%D8%B4-%DA%A9%D9%86%D9%86%D8%AF-%DA%AF%D8%B2%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%B4-%D8%AA%D8%B5%D9%88%DB%8C%D8%B1%DB%8C

(01-23-2023, 05:38 AM)Pckts Wrote: Yet the paper presented says 95kg and he said around, he never specifically told me 98kg so I’m not sure about you?

(01-23-2023, 12:07 PM)AndresVida Wrote:

(01-23-2023, 05:38 AM)Pckts Wrote: Yet the paper presented says 95kg and he said around, he never specifically told me 98kg so I’m not sure about you?

what we know for sure is that at the time of the capture the cat weighed 115 kgs, some days after in mid 100s (around 105 kgs) and at the day if the euthanasia, 10 days after the cat was not eating due to stress about 95-98 kgs.

i don't think there's much to investigate apart from searching the measurements

(01-24-2023, 03:02 AM)Luipaard Wrote: @Pckts 

Do you realise that you're being a hypocrite at this point? You question everything despite what's being presented to you. From personal communications to official reports, you do not believe a single word from the persons who provide us exclusive information. But as expected for jaguars there are different standards. Tell me, what's the difference between a voice message and an Instagram message? Because Iman Mermarian sent three members of this forum the same info and still you do not deem it reliable but an Instagram message from a biologist saying a jaguar weighs "about" 110kg is good enough all of a sudden? You are not playing this game fair and square.

(01-24-2023, 03:14 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(01-24-2023, 03:02 AM)Luipaard Wrote: @Pckts 

Do you realise that you're being a hypocrite at this point? You question everything despite what's being presented to you. From personal communications to official reports, you do not believe a single word from the persons who provide us exclusive information. But as expected for jaguars there are different standards. Tell me, what's the difference between a voice message and an Instagram message? Because Iman Mermarian sent three members of this forum the same info and still you do not deem it reliable but an Instagram message from a biologist saying a jaguar weighs "about" 110kg is good enough all of a sudden? You are not playing this game fair and square.

Lets try this one last time...
No one has presented a single shred of evidence for a 115kg Leopard. Who was there, who weighed him, when was he weighed, what were his measurements? etc.
 The only weight mentioned is 95kg so what is the issue?
Not to mention this specific Leopard has had controversy left and right with multiple weights claimed and thrown away. 
In regards to the Biologist, he literally is on video discussing the capture the and measurements of Joker, Oncafari has provided actual capture data and measurements. Where as Iman has provided nothing that's comparable. 

You use fan made tables on skull measurements and 2nd hand Persian leopard measurements with no clarification what weights exist or where they came from yet question anything to do with verified Jaguar data. 
The only hypocrite I see is you.

Quote:Lets try this one last time...
No one has presented a single shred of evidence for a 115kg Leopard. Who was there, who weighed him, when was he weighed, what were his measurements? etc.
 The only weight mentioned is 95kg so what is the issue?

Quote:Not to mention this specific Leopard has had controversy left and right with multiple weights claimed and thrown away.

Quote:In regards to the Biologist, he literally is on video discussing the capture the and measurements of Joker, Oncafari has provided actual capture data and measurements. Where as Iman has provided nothing that's comparable.

Quote:You use fan made tables on skull measurements and 2nd hand Persian leopard measurements with no clarification what weights exist or where they came from yet question anything to do with verified Jaguar data.
The only hypocrite I see is you.