WildFact
Tiger Directory - Printable Version

+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Tiger (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-tiger)
+----- Thread: Tiger Directory (/topic-tiger-directory)



RE: Tiger Directory - GuateGojira - 12-12-2014

"Tons" of failed radiocollar deaths, Pckts???? That is gross exaggeration. The few news reports that you post only mention the death of few animals but never mention the entire sample used in the studies. It is OBVIOUS that these reports only try to create havoc, while they hide the true results of the studies and the fact that normally over 80% of the sampled animals are alive and well. Accidents happens - yes, bad methods produced bad studies - yes, but nothing is perfect here, and I have saw also enough videos of photographers and tourist disturbing tigers in the wild for the sake of a good picture, to say that this attacks against scientists is a huge hypocrite attitude.

Apollo, I am very disappointing from your point of view. You have been also convinced by the photographers and "naturalists" with no more education than that of the use of a camera or the basic knowledge of an animal. This people is against the collars, not for the sake of the tigers, but because they look "ugly" in the pictures. They hypocrite statements are based in "feelings" and not in facts.

You have decided to believe in the reports of death tigers by the collars and to ignore the other reports that state that those tiger don't died for that.

Other thing, READ my words, I say "Every process can be safe", not that "IS safe". Before to comment, read the correct words. In this case, the snares are out of question, specially by the fact the the entire discussion is focused in the tigers captured in India-Nepal-Bangladesh, not in Russia. Peter is the only one that have touched this point, I have focused in the Indian subcontinent, and I have stated several times, that the method to capture tigers is more safe than that of Russia, but apparently both of you also choose to "forget" this.

This attitude against the scientific methods, and the support of the opinions of the photographers, only because we want people in the forum, is a hit to the very soul of this place. Since when Science most give place to the "feelings" of any person with no professional base??? This is disturbing, as I clearly see personal interests here. I simple don't care what the photographers think, I put the truth, but now you are practically saying that all those "old" process were evil and useless. I clearly stated that the method is good, the problem is the people that use it, however your answer was the snares???

If you really think what you are saying, I invite you to drop all your scientific books and base your ideas only in the internet, this will be not the first time that I saw this. What a shame and an waste of time. I am full of indignation by how the opinion of experts is dismissed so easily, just to get more people in the forum. [img]images/smilies/angry.gif[/img]
 


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-12-2014

I said Tons of deaths from TRANQ's, whether being used on Radio Collars, for examples on how to treat rhinos, relocations, etc.
Which of course, is absolutely true, I also posted a huge list which you have already seen. 

This should be coninued on the thread its intended for. 


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-17-2014

It appears that a Battle of the Titans is brewing in Bandipur

 Praveen SiddannavarDecember 14 at 5:16pm · Edited ·Big Cats of Bandipur – My intentions to visit Bandipur recently was with a clear mission of spotting new Tigers, and believe me I never even bothered to neither track nor go after the most frequently sighted and famous massive tiger none other than our own “Prince”. I knew that this trip will need a lot of patience, persistence and of course luck, having said all this I was also mentally prepared that in all probabilities I may come back seeing nothing. To make things worse the low depression at Chennai made the weather even worse, it was cloudy; it rained, drizzled and light as expected was extremely low even before we entered the park.
It was a morning drive with misty conditions, low light but we kept driving; keeping an eye on the smallest clue that came our way. We saw pugs marks of a male tiger and also a female and this was a good sign to keep our moral and confidence high. It was just about 7am we were about to reach famous water hole and suddenly three of us that included a guest shared the same name Praveen, our star naturalist Basavanna and of course myself whispered tiger tiger tiger…
Friends believe me he was massive (should be easily weighing 250 kgs+), seemed to be in his prime with nice winter coat and was seen scent marking his territory, good thing was he didn’t shy away immediately, he posed for a while and that was good enough for me to make few images, but at a high ISO of 1600 due to low light. I can’t really express the joy of seeing this new chap, I clicked few shots and then he disappeared into the bushes, we did wait for a while but he didn’t show up. I strongly believe that he can be serious threat to Prince as we spotted him scent marking in a territory that currently belongs to Prince. I will now refer to this tiger as Basavanna Katte Male; and I have strong reason behind this reference. Stay tuned for more!— at Bandipur Tiger Reserve, Karnataka State, India.

*This image is copyright of its original author

 

Very interesting that a seasoned veteran of Ranth, Bandipur and other tiger sanctuaries specifically mentions the massive size of this tiger. Bandipur, Raja and this male must be quite the specimens to behold.


RE: Tiger Directory - Apollo - 12-18-2014

(12-12-2014, 10:21 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: "Tons" of failed radiocollar deaths, Pckts???? That is gross exaggeration. The few news reports that you post only mention the death of few animals but never mention the entire sample used in the studies. It is OBVIOUS that these reports only try to create havoc, while they hide the true results of the studies and the fact that normally over 80% of the sampled animals are alive and well. Accidents happens - yes, bad methods produced bad studies - yes, but nothing is perfect here, and I have saw also enough videos of photographers and tourist disturbing tigers in the wild for the sake of a good picture, to say that this attacks against scientists is a huge hypocrite attitude.

Apollo, I am very disappointing from your point of view. You have been also convinced by the photographers and "naturalists" with no more education than that of the use of a camera or the basic knowledge of an animal. This people is against the collars, not for the sake of the tigers, but because they look "ugly" in the pictures. They hypocrite statements are based in "feelings" and not in facts.

You have decided to believe in the reports of death tigers by the collars and to ignore the other reports that state that those tiger don't died for that.

Other thing, READ my words, I say "Every process can be safe", not that "IS safe". Before to comment, read the correct words. In this case, the snares are out of question, specially by the fact the the entire discussion is focused in the tigers captured in India-Nepal-Bangladesh, not in Russia. Peter is the only one that have touched this point, I have focused in the Indian subcontinent, and I have stated several times, that the method to capture tigers is more safe than that of Russia, but apparently both of you also choose to "forget" this.

This attitude against the scientific methods, and the support of the opinions of the photographers, only because we want people in the forum, is a hit to the very soul of this place. Since when Science most give place to the "feelings" of any person with no professional base??? This is disturbing, as I clearly see personal interests here. I simple don't care what the photographers think, I put the truth, but now you are practically saying that all those "old" process were evil and useless. I clearly stated that the method is good, the problem is the people that use it, however your answer was the snares???

If you really think what you are saying, I invite you to drop all your scientific books and base your ideas only in the internet, this will be not the first time that I saw this. What a shame and an waste of time. I am full of indignation by how the opinion of experts is dismissed so easily, just to get more people in the forum. [img]images/smilies/angry.gif[/img]
 






 



Guate I think you have misunderstood my post.
I see you are getting offended when scientists and scientific methods are questioned.

Good observation is good science.
Good observations will raise questions on methods used, process and techniques involved, mistakes made etc, this inturn improves science and makes it grow and be more efficent.
You say more than 80% success rate in radio collaring, i ask why not more than 95% or more than 98%. Because we are dealing with a species which exists only in few thousands in the wild, so each individual is precious.
You see questioning, pointing out the failures and mistakes, using better techniques will definitely helps in improvement in success rate and welfare of these animals

I shared the views and the questions put forth by the photographers and naturalists on the radiocollaring of tigers.
First of all you have to understand that these photographers and naturalists from India are well educated people.
Most of them have a undergrad degree and some of them were postgrads too.
If you dont believe me you can ask any of these people in Indian nature watch, fb etc. I think Sanjay will also agree on this because his from India and knows education system here.
Most of those points were backed up with good examples and no scientist can deny that.
I also shared the words from a wildlife warden and a wildlife biologist.

First lets talk about behavioural changes, what proof we have that tigers from Siberia, Bangladesh etc didnt show any changes in behaviour after being collared other than the words from scientists, project members, reports and studies published. Is there is a third party organisation alotted for this job, is there is media, photographers, park officials keep track of them day in and day out.
How could someone say there is no change in the tiger's behaviour when they dont no about that animals behavioural pattern in the first place. These tigers were tracked only after being collared and almost nothing is known about these animals before that. Thats why I prefer reserves like Tadoba, Ranthambore, Bandhavgarh etc because the tigers in the tourism zone from these reserves were well observed by everyone. And some of these animals did show behavioural changes after being collared and thats why I said Collaring is not only about the radio collar but the entire process involved.

Umarpani tigress had maggot infested infection around radiocollar, T4 died due to infection around the collar. Whose mistakes were these, its definitely the scientists fault for not identifying this in the preliminary stages. When you put a foreign object around an animals body its your sole duty to keep a keen observation for such incidents.

You have to keep in mind that Im not against radio collaring, I clearly stated radiocollaring method as been successfully used by scientists on different animals for research purpose but no matter how good a scientific method is, it all depends on the authority and the management which governs it.

Then I started talking frequency alotment issues in India, because the government was not ready to grant new frequencies for the collars readily. So I thought this issue should be addressed and shared here with everyone.

Just because they are scientists it doesnt mean whatever they do is right.
In the example I gave where among 30 collared deers, 18 were killed due to faulty collars. The University which conducted the study said "The university stressed that the roe deer population in the Simmen and Kander valleys is sufficiently robust to withstand the loss of the 18 fawn"
Can you see how smartly they addressed there mistakes, can they say something like this if it was 18 human lives other than deers. Can animal enthusiasts like us blindly ignore it in the name of science.
I would say the people involved in this crime should be severely punished. 


I brought in the snares issue because you earlier mentioned Russia in the debate section 
"The BEST studies on tigers came from Nepal, Nagarahole and Russia, and guess what? ALL those studies used radiocollared tigers."
and then you said "​Every process can be safe, as long as is carrying out by professionals."

I will say it again snaring was never a safe method. 


I personally feel it would be better if there is different method which can replace radio collaring which doesnt involve putting a foreign object in and around the animals body to track, monitor and study these animals.
Thats why I raised the questions
Are cameratraps the next step from radiocollars in tiger conservation in India ?
Can cameratraps replace radiocollars in India ?
I partly agree with what wildlife biologist Vidya Athreya said that in a place like Africa, where visibility is good and there are not as many people as in India, you can drive up to the animal, see it clearly and then intervene if the animal has a problem with the collar etc.

Reserves in India are small compared to Africa, USA, Russia etc and we know all of the well established corridors used by tigers for migration. So its possible to cover these areas with cameratraps. Terrains in most of the tiger reserves in India are very hard to travel so its difficult to track and monitor collared tigers all the time by the scientists to avoid collar related accidents.

We are ready to criticize politicians, forest officials etc for there mistakes but why not scientists and experts. 

IMO there should be more detailed studies done on the effects Of Radio-Tagging And Radio-Tracking on tigers because they have been done on other mammals
While the "rule of thumb" for complete transmitter packages dictates that they weigh no more than 3-5% of the total body weight (Cochran 1980), subsequent studies have shown the importance of species-specific considerations (Caccamise and Hedin 1985; Aldridge and Brigham 1988; Anderka and Angehrn 1992). Some studies have examined not only the impact of the transmitter pack's weight and bulk, but also the effects of capture, handling, and tracking (Hill and Talent 1990; Taylor 1991).

Larger mammal radio-tagging impact studies have been limited but include river (Melquist and Hornocher 1979) and sea otters (Garshelis and Siniff 1983), mule (Goldberg and Haas 1978; Wenger and Springer 1981; Garrott et al. 1985) and white-tailed deer (Nelson and Mech 1981; Clute and Ozoga 1983), caribou (Pank et al. 1985), and mountain lions (Garcelon 1977).

Two studies involving the impacts of radio-tagging white-tailed deer noted adverse effects. Nelson and Mech (1981) conducted a mortality study with white-tailed deer fitted with collars taped with yellow (for ease in aerial spotting). They learned that the bright collars also allowed hunters to more easily see the deer and, therefore, the mortality data were biased with respect to hunting pressures. Clute and Ozoga (1983) noted that during cold spells white-tailed deer fawns with expandable collars collected heavy ice on their necks, probably from water splashed up when they crossed streams.

While both these studies found detrimental impacts, Hamilton (1976) saw no weight loss in leopards before and after fitting with transmitters. Gorman et al. (1992) recorded no adverse effects on African wild dogs when fitted with a PTT weighing just under 900 g. Neither did Creel et al. (1997) find any adverse effects as measured by stress hormones in African wild dogs following typical anesthesia and radio-collaring.

Garrott et al. (1985) examined the hypothesis that mule deer fawns fitted with collars, as opposed to ear-tag transmitters, suffered greater predation rates due to collars providing coyotes a more secure grip on the fawn's neck. The authors found comparable survival rates between fawns with collars and those with ear-tag transmitters. Although their study included 91 animals, subsequent analysis (White and Garrott 1990) revealed that the sample size was short of the 96 animals required to detect a 30% difference in predation rates with 80% certainty. This example highlights the importance of study design with respect to statistical power when investigating impacts of radio-tagging and tracking.

Finally I like to point out that what you said "​This people is against the collars, not for the sake of the tigers, but because they look "ugly" in the pictures."
will definitely offend the photographers community if you dont have any proof or evidence to support this claim.
So I would request you to remove that comment if you dont have any evidence to back that up.

These so called wildlife photographers and naturalists also made some contributions to tiger science.

1) Many famous Indian tigers life histories are known because of them.
2) Male tigers raising the cubs by their own came to light because of them.
3) Male tigers sharing kills with female and cubs, protecting, spending more time with family etc all were shown by them.
4) Tiger predatory actions.
and so on.
 

 

 

 


RE: Tiger Directory - GuateGojira - 12-18-2014

Apollo, sincerely, I think this is a dirty move (from you or other?) to attack the new alliance that Pckts and I have made in the Asian lion topic.

I will not going to touch this topic, and I am not going to loose my time with it anymore, at the suggestion of the other moderators.

What I have said, has been said and I will not going to change any of my words.

Continue with the topic.
 


RE: Tiger Directory - peter - 12-18-2014

I posted a recent (2014) article on tigers, radio-collars and researchers in India in the tiger extinction thread. It's lengthy, but interesting.

My proposal is to read the article and then again. Than try to get to a summary. If everything is done, a debate can follow. But not on the tiger extinction thread, if you please. Thanks.


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-19-2014

I removed the images in respect to Vijays wishes. My apologies.


RE: Tiger Directory - Apollo - 12-19-2014

T42 aka Fateh



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author


 


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-19-2014

(12-19-2014, 02:41 AM)'Apollo' Wrote: T42 aka Fateh



*This image is copyright of its original author


 
I know its just the angle, but good lord.
He looks so massive here...


RE: Tiger Directory - Pantherinae - 12-19-2014

I think I''m going to back Rathambore in The year to come and fateh/T42 is my number one priority!


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-19-2014

T42, T28 and T24 are all tigers on which I would love to see.
Now T72 may even be at the top of the list. Ranth is quickly becoming my dream place since sightings are all but guarenteed. 


RE: Tiger Directory - Pantherinae - 12-20-2014

'Pckts dateline='' Wrote: T42, T28 and T24 are all tigers on which I would love to see.
Now T72 may even be at the top of the list. Ranth is quickly becoming my dream place since sightings are all but guarenteed. 

 
Yeah i was thinking about khana or Kaziranga, but last time I just loved it there and this is The place i wanna be, aswell as it's less expensive! and as You said it's almost guarenteed sighting's! And by far The greatest nature in India IMO! Sure You don't wanna join me in november or desember next year? If You have The time? 


 


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-21-2014

Im going to Thailand instead, I got a good oppurtunity and I took advantage of it. I will make it to india at some point, just will have to find time and let my funds reemburse before I do. May take a couple of years, but I will make it there for sure. 


RE: Tiger Directory - Apollo - 12-25-2014

Merry Christmas to everyone


Tiger named Deewani Ram from Corbett. This tiger by mistake killed and ate a forest guard named Deewani Ram, so the tiger was named after the him. Quite an aggressive animal at times charges at vehicles, can get scary.

*This image is copyright of its original author







This massive male is called Big Boss, from Nagarhole NP. It was said to be a very big male.

*This image is copyright of its original author








New male tiger of Moharli range - Tadoba TR. He is named as Bajrang male aka BajiRao. He is been mating with Sonam tigress.

*This image is copyright of its original author







Tiger from Birjani Corbett

*This image is copyright of its original author



*This image is copyright of its original author







The original Mahaman female. She is the sister of late Chorbhera and Jurjura females.

*This image is copyright of its original author







Big male from Kanha

*This image is copyright of its original author

 

 


RE: Tiger Directory - Pckts - 12-28-2014

Nice images, I doubt the description though.
There is no "mistake" when a tiger kills and eats.
They've evolved millions of years killing and eating specific prey, they know how to attack each type of prey, etc.
They know what a human looks like so its obvioulsy done for a reason.