(07-21-2021, 06:17 AM)tigerluver Wrote: Great find @GrizzlyClaws! The preservation looks a bit like the Siberian P. spelaea I have seen which could make me lean that way. Although, the tooth looks a bit odd/unique as it seems thin and long, which sometimes can be a tiger trait. Do you think this is an upper or lower canine?

(07-21-2021, 08:05 AM)tigerluver Wrote: The cave lion did get the wider skulls so there is some convergence there. My issue with the canine is that in literature, the eastern Late Pleistocene cave lion is small by cave lion standards. This paper covered a good selection of specimens and this paper covered the larger skulls which still don't exceed 360 mm. Of course, the canine could be from a different time period.

If we look at this figure from Christiansen (2007) (PM for the paper) we do the tiger has longer, thinner canines:

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(07-21-2021, 08:15 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-21-2021, 08:05 AM)tigerluver Wrote: The cave lion did get the wider skulls so there is some convergence there. My issue with the canine is that in literature, the eastern Late Pleistocene cave lion is small by cave lion standards. This paper covered a good selection of specimens and this paper covered the larger skulls which still don't exceed 360 mm. Of course, the canine could be from a different time period.

If we look at this figure from Christiansen (2007) (PM for the paper) we do the tiger has longer, thinner canines:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Sumatran Tiger, generally a Tigers canine will be longer  and wider from similarly sized cats, especially at the root. The canine in question looks like a mix between both Lions/Tigers although I lean more towards a lions shape.

(07-21-2021, 08:48 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Some Eastern Cave lions were absolutely huge, and maybe they were smaller on average than the Western Cave lions, but those top notch specimens were just as large as the largest Western Cave lions.

And they did have proportionally longer/thinner canine teeth.

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(07-21-2021, 07:39 PM)tigerluver Wrote:

(07-21-2021, 08:48 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: Some Eastern Cave lions were absolutely huge, and maybe they were smaller on average than the Western Cave lions, but those top notch specimens were just as large as the largest Western Cave lions.

And they did have proportionally longer/thinner canine teeth.

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Monstrous specimens!

Do you know the alleged localities? What would you say the length measurements of the specimens are?

The giant jaw looks Romanian in both size and preservation.

The skull has other peculiarities. I have never seen a truly complete carnivore skull from Eurasia on the fossil market, they are all restored or composite to increase the price. Maybe it's just the specimen, but the skull shows some oddities like a very short muzzle (could be camera angle), the posterior edge of the occiput goes very far past the condyles, the posterior arch is very narrow, there is plastering on the anterior end of the left hemimandible, the mandible is glossy and uniform in color while the skull is dull in color, and parts of the skull (like the occiput and area anterior to it) are different colors (which gives some concern for restoration work).