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+----- Thread: The Matimba coalition (/topic-the-matimba-coalition)
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RE: the Matimba coalition - Tshokwane - 01-08-2017
(01-08-2017, 09:47 PM)LionKiss Wrote: The Majingilane were forced out of MM by the Matshapiri and out of Londolozi by the Matimbas (12 months ago)
nevertheless they still pay some infrequent visits in those areas,
Sigh...
No, LionKiss.
The Majingilane conquered the west around may-june 2014, and then slowly they began spending more and more time there until they stopped returning to Mala mala and Londolozi. It wasn't something that happened in just a day, it was a very slow process.
The Matshapiri males only appeared in the scene mid 2015.
The Matimba males entered londolozi only after being chased out by the Birmingham males. They had never set foot in Londolozi prior to that.
By that time, basically a year had happened with no dominant males in the whole Londolozi. The Matimbas took empty land.
RE: the Matimba coalition - LionKiss - 01-08-2017
You know very well that by the end of 2015 there was a lot of chasing and in the first months of 2016 the majingilane had some serious fights with the Matimbas and eventually they retreated in Singita and further to the West, only to reappear in Londolozi even MM recently for a few days.
The Matshapiris entered the scene by October 2014 and eventaully prevailed a little later. And that the Majingilane did not stay a fight with them
The Majingilane are very careful and know how to protect themselves at any cost, including Prides and Territories
RE: the Matimba coalition - vinodkumarn - 01-09-2017
(01-08-2017, 06:18 PM)LionKiss Wrote: I don't take this @Majingilane,
lions don't abandon Prides and land unless they are forced to.
They already had serious presence in Malamala but after the advent of the Matimbas they became less frequent even in the Mlowathi area which is the Northern part of MM
@LionKiss Generally Lions move away from prides and territory once the cubs grow into adults..
One of the reasons may be to avoid mating with their own daughters..
For example Majis moved away from most of the territories after breeding for one generation.. Mhangeni being exception
The reason is the first set of cubs from Mhangeni are operating separately and Matimbas are the dominant males over them..
Now Majis have second set of cubs from Mhangeni..
I guess had their fist set of cubs (Females in particularly.. Mhangeni break away females.. 6 of them..) been with their mothers.. Majis would have moved away from the pride and territory
RE: the Matimba coalition - Tshokwane - 01-09-2017
Matimba Males Chase Mhangeni Breakaways: By James Tyrrell.
At least one of the Mhangeni Breakaway lionesses are reported to be denning cubs to the north east of Londolozi. Over the past few months, we have seen the pride mating with the two Matimba males (believed to be the fathers of the cubs), so it would be natural to assume that the females are familiar with the males.
Imagine our surprise then, when four of the lionesses spotted the ginger-maned Matimba male approaching them one evening recently, and immediately took off. To flee in the bush is to invite pursuit, and the big male immediately broke into a trot, steadily gaining on one of the lionesses who had an injured paw.
*This image is copyright of its original author
A fifth lioness was also trailing the pride, and as all of the females scattered in different directions, the male was forced to up his pace. The injured lioness was clearly in pain and decided to hide behind a small Grewia bush, but was soon found by the male. Despite his seemingly aggressive approach, he simply stopped about two metres from the female and looked at her with a rather bemused look on his face. Meanwhile, a second female was moving past about 20 metres away, so the male decided to run after her instead. Impalas and wildebeest were alarming in the clearings around us, giving away the positions of at least two more lionesses that we couldn’t see. Driving down the hill, we spotted the fifth lioness in the distance being pursued by the dark-maned Matimba male, so raced towards them to view what interaction there may be.
Check your settings! Forgetting I had been operating with a much narrower aperture for a few previous shots, I snapped this pic of two of the lionesses starting to run from the male that can just be seen in the background, and got a slightly fuzzy photo with a lioness with a completely fuzzy face due to the slow shutter speed.
*This image is copyright of its original author
She ran from him, and after a minute he had lost sight of her, reverting instead to a much slower attempt to follow her scent trail. Given that the pride females had run all over the clearings by this time, he was as confused as we were within a very short space of time.
A haunted look accompanies one of the Mhangeni Breakaway lionesses. There was certainly a look of fear on their faces as the first four lionesses approached us, suggesting they were already moving away from the males when we found them.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The dark-maned Matimba male gets on the scent of one of the lionesses.
*This image is copyright of its original author
As I assume you are by now while reading this.
The females had scattered in all directions to escape the Matimba males. That’s about all we could gather. Although the males did not seem intent on actually harming any of the lionesses, they were still in persistent pursuit.
Why had the females run in the first place though? Did they not recognise the males? Had there been some recent altercation? One of the lioness was quite cut up on her face, which left us wondering how she had sustained the injuries. Was it in a fight over a kill? Had the males done this to her?
The female with the injured nose and swollen snout can be seen on the right.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Far more questions were posed than answered. Andrea Sithole tracked the pride for over six kilometres the next morning, eventually finding them in the central parts of the property. During his track he had found where they had killed a wildebeest calf, then been chased off by the Matshipiri males. It was a rough night for the pride as far as their relationships with the local coalitions went.
We’d be interested to hear your thoughts as to why the pride may have felt the need to run from the Matimba males. We’re still scratching our heads.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Lionpower - 01-09-2017
Instead of confronting the Matshapiri Males they are showing aggressive behaviour against the pride they're spending a lot of time with. Could it be that the lionesses spotted some weakness in the behaviour of the Matima Males also due to the encouters with the Matshapiri Males and weren't as submissive as they used to be? Maybe as a reaction to that the Matimba Males wanted to show the pride that they're still powerful males and in charge of that territory.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Georgel - 01-10-2017
(01-07-2017, 05:05 AM)Georgel Wrote:(11-02-2016, 02:39 PM)fursan syed Wrote: - 3 Mapogos versus 3 Matimbas -
Mak,T and PB vs. HB, Ginger and the oldest Matimba
The mystery night June 19th 2011
(by Mark Broodryk, Head Guide, Singita Sabi Sand June - 22 - 2011)
"Forty-eight hours ago we located 3 adult male lions just north of the lodge (presumed to be the ones people refer to as “the Mapogos”). We found them by responding to vocalization; it sounded like a massive fight between adult male lions. On locating these three, we noticed that they had been badly beaten, were bloodied and received massive fresh scars from the ensuing morning battle. The three of them walked off with a very determined striding pace and didn’t even stop or look back to the area where the battle took place and continued south and west across the Sand river into the western Sabi Sand and we haven’t seen them since. Meanwhile south of the river, roughly around the same time, some new male lions killed a younger male from the southern pride. We presumed the murderers to be the so called “Majingilanes". We haven’t had too much exposure to these individuals and thus will be trying to put together some photo identity kits of these individuals. What is important to note, is that these were not necessarily the same individuals involved in the skirmish north of the river! We never located the individuals that ousted the “Mapogos” and thus could well have been other individuals. Unfortunately this is all we have at this stage, but will keep you posted should we have a more accurate assessment as to what is currently happening amongst the territorial males in the area."
by Khimbini Hlongwane
"Last the three mapogo were very vocal north of inyati lodge I then visited Singita and again on North of ebony lodge there male lions roaring the whole night. This morning I tracked three mapogo from inyati airstrip all the way east and they crossed ottawa corseway in the direction where the other lions were roaring. They ran straight into *matimbas. They got into a serious battle but when the Singita Guides got to the area they saw the mapogos running back west carrying few bloody wounds. We are still not sure status of the *matimbas because they won't come out of one the thick blocks on north eastern part of ottawa."
*Mistakenly Khimbini thought it would be the Majingilanes.
by Mele Andru
"Khimbi it seems 3 Majingi were not involved in this battle beeing too busy to mating with 2 Sparta lionesses in Mala Mala ( and that for 3 days ) . It could be simply another coalition , less probably to be young males because you herd many roarings during night . I hope this informations will help . Keep in touch !"
by Kyaw Soe Win
"No, it was 3 Matimba males known also as Sava males. Sava = shy , Matimba = stronge.
Now they are not shy anymore, Even bigger and stronger.
They are 6 brothers.
5 are 5 years and 1 is 7 years old.
Last week they probably injured one of Majingilanes with dark means seriously.
I got this information in a email from photographer who has taken many pictures of Matimba/Sava males. I am sure the rangers from Singita can confirm it."
by Chris O'Neil
"It does indeed look like it may have been 3 of the Matimbas. And the Majingis have also been around Matimba territory too apparently. I heard from Singita that they killed a young Southern Pride (Selati) male recently."
Singita rangers had no idea with whom fought the Mapogos.
Khimbini erroneously thought they fought with the Majingilanes. (Using quotation marks and changing his writing isn't fair I guess.)
The comments under Khimbini facebook post
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150213689029495&set=o.53143473813&type=3&hc_location=ufi
are only suppositions.
I've looked around about this event and it seems no one can make a definite statement.
Few Arathusa reports clarifying that the Majingilanes were not involved into the June 19, 2011 fight.
Saturday 18 June
There is nothing quite like savouring a hot cup of coffee while listening to the roars of a male lion nearby. Once we’d finished our coffee we went in search of the noisemaker and were treated to a spectacular sighting of one of the Majingilane males on the airstrip. He was still roaring loudly in a bid to locate his brothers, but much to his disappointment their answer came from the far south. After leaving the lone male we headed east and found the four young Styx cubs hanging out by themselves while the lionesses were off stalking a big herd buffalo. On leaving the cubs we were temporarily thwarted by a massive roadblock in the form of six rhinos fast asleep in the road. They clearly had no intention of moving anytime soon, so we decided to leave them in peace and enjoy a warming cup of hot chocolate before heading back to the lodge.
We kicked off the afternoon drive with a herd of elephants enjoying a mud bath. Watching the youngsters having so much fun in the water was particularly entertaining. A little while later we received a call over the radio that Mvula (territorial male leopard from the east) had just killed a warthog. On arrival we were quite surprised to find Kurula (territorial female leopard from the east) lying a little way off from the kill in the hope that there’d be some scraps leftover. As we left the sighting we noticed some movement further down the road. Three of the Styx lionesses were moving in the direction of the leopards, but luckily they didn’t cross paths. We’d just decided to call it a day and head back to the lodge when Induna (young male leopard) appeared on the road with a guinea fowl in his mouth. What an amazing afternoon filled with incredible sightings. Time to warm up around a fire.
Sunday 19 June
This morning we spent a long time tracking lions in the east. After a seemingly endless search we eventually found three Styx females. The trio was on the move so we followed them as best we could. Our patience and perseverance was soon rewarded when they led us to their four young cubs who are now almost four months old. We had a fantastic time watching the youngsters alternately playing and nursing. We then found the other Styx lioness with one of the Majingilane males, and although we didn’t actually see any shenanigans, we suspect that if they aren’t already mating the female will be ready to do so soon. We ended off the wonderful morning by finding a buffalo bull and two rhinos.
This afternoon we managed to relocate the three Styx lionesses and their four young cubs. We only saw them briefly however, as the adults soon led the babies off into a big, thick drainage line, safe from prying eyes. The Styx female and Majingilane male were also in the area, but the pair was fast asleep and didn’t even bother to lift their heads to acknowledge our arrival. Unhappy with the state of our welcome committee, we left in search of more interesting game viewing. Next we came across a group of five rhinos grazing along the road, and then just before sunset we found Mafunfunyane. Unfortunately we the lost dominant male leopard in a thicket, at which point we decided that our sundowners stop was long overdue. No sooner were we back on the road when we relocated the previously elusive Mafunfunyane. We watched patiently as he stalked impala, but were disappointed when he soon lost interest in the buck. Suddenly he shot forward and caught a duiker that only he had seen. We watched in amazement at how quickly he dispatched the duiker before dragging it some hundred metres away to feed in the safety of the thick vegetation of the Mluwati stream.
And that brings to an end yet another spectacular week! Visit our Facebook and Flikr albums to see more photos from our game drives.
Monday 20 June
This morning we came across a group of five rhinos just as they were waking up and starting to feed. It really is quite something to see these hulking beasts while they’re still sleepy. After watching them for a while we went looking for the lion cubs again, but unfortunately they were either well hidden or off somewhere with their Moms because we couldn’t find them anywhere. We did find one of the Styx lionesses however, and she’d been joined by two of the Majingilane males. Could there be love in the air?
On the afternoon drive we found the four male cheetahs just lying around and enjoying the last bit of sunlight. And then after sunset we ran into the Styx lioness again. She was still hanging out with the two Majingilane males, and we were right about there being some love a brewin’, because she mated with one of them. A brilliant sighting for everyone.
RE: the Matimba coalition - Tshokwane - 01-10-2017
(01-09-2017, 10:58 PM)Lionpower Wrote: Instead of confronting the Matshapiri Males they are showing aggressive behaviour against the pride they're spending a lot of time with.
I don't think it's the males fault per se. I think it's merely an instinctive reaction to what the females did.
As to why the lionesses are acting this way, I'm not sure.
But it could be that they are on high alert knowing that the Matshapiri males may be around, so seeing two big lions may have spooked them.
But clearly the Matimbas know who these lionesses are, that's why they didn't attack them.
I can imagine how puzzled the males must have been with their women's behaviour (something we as men can relate to)...
RE: the Matimba coalition - vinodkumarn - 01-12-2017
Don't know how true this is. As I've told Earline, I'm waiting confirmation, as soon as I have any more information, I'll let you all know.
*This image is copyright of its original author
?Credits: Sherri Roberts
HB seems to be injured.. Lets wait and see
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: the Matimba coalition - Lionpower - 01-12-2017
It's strange because the guy who posted that photo (Callum Gowar) doesn't mention the injury. He only comments it with: "A Matimba male quenches his thirst"...
RE: the Matimba coalition - vinodkumarn - 01-13-2017
Seems to be injury due to Buffalo horn.. from fb
RE: the Matimba coalition - Tshokwane - 01-13-2017
Credits to James Souchon - Londolozi.
One of the Matimba Males lies up in the road early one morning.
*This image is copyright of its original author
The other Matimba Male was seen one morning mating with a lioness from the Mhangeni Breakaway
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: the Matimba coalition - Fredymrt - 01-14-2017
(01-05-2017, 04:11 AM)Georgel Wrote: If I understand well, among so many photos and a far from clear video, you want to say that the two coalitions, that is, Mapogos and Matimbas, where too far one from the other on June 18th, making impossible an encounter on June 19th.
Well, the following day , they were seen around the same area near knp
(01-05-2017, 04:11 AM)Georgel Wrote: Maybe you are right (although the info you posted has no clear source; why should we trust you that the photos have been taken on June 18th?).
And if you do not believe me that, these photos were taken by Rudolf kals on the 19th, at chettah plains
Among others were taken by Rudolf kals and posted on his FB page click on the link below:
https://mobile.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2156078617104&id=1100628184&set=a.2156076817059.2131943.1100628184&source=43
IF you visit , his FB page there are, more photos posted there in his albums.
(if you ever have doubt about a photo,just drag the image into a google search bar and it'll find matching photos)
(01-05-2017, 04:11 AM)Georgel Wrote: I have no idea how many miles are between Ottawa and Djuma, but I also know that lions travel a lot, covering huge distances in short time.
Distance between othawa and cheetah plains is around 18km
RE: the Matimba coalition - fursan syed - 01-19-2017
Matimba Ginger & Mhangeni Lioness - Londolozi, Callum Gowar
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: the Matimba coalition - fursan syed - 01-19-2017
Matimba Hairy Belly - Londolozi Game Reserve, Willy Laufmann
13 Jan 2017
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: the Matimba coalition - fursan syed - 01-19-2017
Matimbas, Hairy Belly & Ginger - Londolozi Game Reserve, Asti Smith - 18 Jan 2017
*This image is copyright of its original author