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+----- Thread: The Mighty Mapogos (/topic-the-mighty-mapogos)
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RE: The Mighty Mapogos - afortich - 03-13-2023
Hello Mapogos experts, I have a question.
In a 1vs1 fight, Did Makhulu ever fight another lion where the lion ended up dead after the fight from the injuries inflected by Makhulu?? Thanks!!
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 03-13-2023
I'd be surprised if someone knows of a report of Makhulu killing another male.
The adult male lions killed by Mapogos that I'm aware of numbers six: Rollercoaster with the bad eye, Dzunani, Rocky Serengeti male, Blondie, 1/2 Manyeleti male, and 5th Majingilane.
- Mala Mala reports that the then Eyrefield males were clashing with Rollercoasters in late 2005 and thought RCs were ousted by them, but later figured they weren't but 1/3 RC was seen in bad shape and with a limp, a few months later Mala Mala reports the RCs were seeing chasing the Mapogos but couldn't follow and didn't know how it ended. The next report announced the death of 1/3 RC;
- Dzunani killed by Mapogos in 2006, I think reported by Rob like that "killed by Mapogos", Makhulu had met him alone before that but the older Mapogo ran;
- Rocky killed and eaten by Mapogos, reported by Londolozi I think in early 2007 or late 2006;
- Blondie, killed by 5-6 Mapogos in the end of 2007, reported by WildEarth/Djuma;
- 1/2 Manyeleti Males in 2009, it was reported by many different souces like WildEarth and Mala Mala, they said the 2 Manyeleti males clashed with the 2 youngest Mapogos and the Manyeleti male with the shorter mane died later from his wounds;
- 5th Majingilane, like everybody knows, he was also killed by Mr.T and KT.
It was thought back in the day from Rob's initial report that Nhlanguleni had died from his fight against Makhulu in early 2006, but it turns out he survived. Then there's a report that the 6 Mapogos killed him later, and then Rob again saying in fact he escaped and left SS.
And of course there's the wide believe that in 2012 KNP Limper died from wounds inflicted by the old Makhulu, but personally, after reading every report about this in the other thread, not only there's no actual evidence of that, but I find this unlikely to have happened, at that time the Mapogos were old, weak and nomadic, they were running from everybody, even Solo and Cleo chased them and after every clash with the KNP, Mapogos were seen running and sometimes with injuries while KNP were seen fine.
If there's any more information on the warfare between Mapogos and KNP that indicates Makhulu was the culprit, or any other report of a Makhulu fight against a rival, I'd also be curious to know.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Timbavati - 03-13-2023
(03-12-2023, 12:00 AM)afortich Wrote:(03-11-2023, 10:38 PM)BA0701 Wrote:(03-11-2023, 10:30 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote:(03-11-2023, 03:53 AM)Timbavati Wrote:(03-04-2023, 06:30 PM)fursan syed Wrote: (Dreadlocks, Rasta, Pretty Boy) visited East To Have Dinner With Mr. T & Kinky Tail.
They were extremely good looking lions.
BTW, Link fixed, now it works.
Idk but to me they all looked huge
I have always thought so as well. Especially Mak and Dreads, have heard rangers say Mak was one of the biggest they'd seen, and Dreads looked possibly bigger to me, an absolute tank. If there was an average sized lion in the group, to me it was Rasta, but none of the others looked exceptionally outsized by the two I mentioned, imo.
I have also heard the same thing from the rangers that Mak was a big lion and the biggest of the Mapogos.
Makhulu and Dreadlocks were the biggest
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - T_Ferguson - 03-13-2023
So, based on Mapokser it seems like the Mapogos were just killers of women and children? They reigned for what... 3 or 4 years? Sounds like a lot of myth.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Tr1x24 - 03-13-2023
(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, based on Mapokser it seems like the Mapogos were just killers of women and children?
Not sure what you mean.
(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: They reigned for what... 3 or 4 years?
6 years.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Timbavati - 03-13-2023
(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, based on Mapokser it seems like the Mapogos were just killers of women and children? They reigned for what... 3 or 4 years? Sounds like a lot of myth.
I don't think he meant to say that. He just numbered how many males Mapogo killed. (That he is aware of). Of course, The Mapogo have killed plenty of lions, nomads, females,cubs etc etc.
They've reigned for six years, and so far, they reigh is known as the "The terror reign"
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - T_Ferguson - 03-13-2023
(03-13-2023, 10:05 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, based on Mapokser it seems like the Mapogos were just killers of women and children?
Not sure what you mean.
(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: They reigned for what... 3 or 4 years?
6 years.
Sorry, I was being factitious a bit. It's really amazing how well documented this area (Sabi Sands) seems to be now, and just 15 years ago, depending on where you source the information from either the Mapogos killed 30 or 40 lions, 100 lions, or maybe 500 lions... LOL
Kinky Tail died at like 8 or 9 years old, and I thought they were 5 when they rolled in. Yes, they held the West for longer, but I was more speaking of the entire north as they essentially held for a pretty short time.
Again, I am not being argumentative, and I was more just reading back on all the lions that some people think they killed and then reading the really good post from Mapokser and the thought came to me that they must have just killed women and children.
My wonders always go around what would have happened if they remained a strong 6 without the split, and the shame of Dreadlocks being picked off by humans. Some people even believe that Rasta was poached, but that is the great mystery of the Mapogos... what happened to Rasta.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 03-13-2023
@T_Ferguson no male lions/coalition kill that many adult males, this is a very rare thing to happen, even some of the most fiercest coalitions and lions like the Mbiris I think never killed any male lion despite their maby fights, that's documented of course.
Mapogos ruled for 6 years, if you look at other SS coalitions, Majingilane have 2 adult male lion kills confirmed I think, 1 Mapogo and 1 Selati. They killed another Selati too but he was a subadult at the time.
Matimbas killed 1 Fourways male and I think some 3 Skybeds apparently but I'm confident the Skybeds were subs at the time, below 4yo. I don't know of any adult male killed besides the Fourways male.
Selatis killed one Mapogo and I think Cleo.
Birminghams killed Othawa Male.
And all of these coalitions had 5-6 members and ruled for as much or more time.
To put it simple there's not that many adult males around to get killed, nor is it easy to kill them, most will run instead of dying fighting multiple opponents and in even numbers is anyone's game, it's hard to kill without this advantage, especially because lions are social and sometimes will have others to hunt for them until they recover.
Still, these are the lions the Mapogos killed but they had other fights and clashes they won but nobody died.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Ttimemarti - 03-13-2023
(03-13-2023, 10:28 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote:(03-13-2023, 10:05 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: So, based on Mapokser it seems like the Mapogos were just killers of women and children?
Not sure what you mean.
(03-13-2023, 09:52 PM)T_Ferguson Wrote: They reigned for what... 3 or 4 years?
6 years.
Sorry, I was being factitious a bit. It's really amazing how well documented this area (Sabi Sands) seems to be now, and just 15 years ago, depending on where you source the information from either the Mapogos killed 30 or 40 lions, 100 lions, or maybe 500 lions... LOL
Kinky Tail died at like 8 or 9 years old, and I thought they were 5 when they rolled in. Yes, they held the West for longer, but I was more speaking of the entire north as they essentially held for a pretty short time.
Again, I am not being argumentative, and I was more just reading back on all the lions that some people think they killed and then reading the really good post from Mapokser and the thought came to me that they must have just killed women and children.
My wonders always go around what would have happened if they remained a strong 6 without the split, and the shame of Dreadlocks being picked off by humans. Some people even believe that Rasta was poached, but that is the great mystery of the Mapogos... what happened to Rasta.
Mapogos are a very controversial coalition we know humans messed with them a lot many of you might’ve seen the Ranger that got out of his vehicle just feet from a sleeping kinky tail that kind of behavior tells me a lot happened back then that we don’t know and the ximhungwe female that was snared back then the ximhungwe pride lived in the western sabi sands which is all fenced in so how did a poacher get that deep into Sabi sand without anyone knowing and then the tragic sand river pride killed the entire pride and then posed for a picture and then they renamed a new pride the sand river pride… sorry for the rant it’s just really irritating sometimes and then poor dreadlocks him being poached shortened their reign which was already impressive
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - T_Ferguson - 03-14-2023
OK, so I completely misunderstood Mapokser's post. hahaha.. not surprising to me.
Thank you all for the clarifications. As I've waded into this world (brought to my attention by Kevin Richardson), I've learned a lot, but wow. there is so much more to learn. The Poaching is what hurts the most.
I thought it was rather more common for male lions to death fight.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 03-14-2023
I think we can include another Rollercoaster in the list of lions killed by Mapogo, I thought the last one had passed from old age but reading the RC reports by Mala Mala posted in the Lions of SS thread, while indeed he was old and sick, he had fresh wounds on his flanks and back from a fight therefore had to be euthanized.
As early as 2007 he had been in clashes and fights with Mapogos, which intensified when Mlowathis fully established themselves in the east, but with help of females he remained around and returned to the Styx and Eyrefield pride after multiple runs with Mapogos.
But it seens they finally finished him off at the end of 2009:
"January 2010
• Rollercoaster male (+/- 13 ½ years): (5 sightings)
Another legend passes at Mala Mala. The Rollercoaster male was euthanased on the first of January. He was in poor condition and the autopsy conducted by the Kruger vet confirmed this. He had mange all along his shoulders and back he had recently been in a lion fight and had fresh wounds along his flanks and rear end. And his adrenal gland had started turning his body muscle into energy just to keep him alive."
Also found this from MalaMala Cyber Diary saying stating the infected bite marks where one of of the reasons for his demise:
"Rollercoaster male – 1 January 2010
Mala Mala lost a stalwart today -the Rollercoaster Male lion has died. He had been lying in the buffalo pans area for the past three days and was severely emaciated. He had mange on his shoulders and infected bite marks on his rump. He was 12 years old."
This makes 7 adult males then, 2 Rollercoasters, Blondie, Rocky, Dzunani, 1/2 Manyeleti, and 5th Majingilane.
If anyone knows of any other feel free to share but I think these were all the documented ones.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - T_Ferguson - 03-14-2023
We definitely dismiss the Londolozi report that they believe the fight between the Mapogos and KNP males that saw Makhulu and PB flee Sabi led to Limper's death?
https://blog.londolozi.com/2012/08/30/is-the-kruger-male-lion-dead/
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Chill - 03-14-2023
Hello, I’m new to this community and I see you have extensive knowledge of the Mapogo’s. I am interested in the Sparta/Eriefield pride( the Mapogo’s Matriarchal pride) I am also interested in their father’s (The West Street/Sparta males). I am researching both the pride and coalition to establish the history of each before the Mapogo’s were born. I have many questions about the pride and the coalition but at the moment I would like to start my research off with the Sparta/Eriefield pride. Here’s my question: Was the Sparta/Eriefield pride in existence way before the Kruger National Park was established or what pride did the Sparta/Eriefield pride originate from???? I am trying to establish if the pride was in existence way before there was means of recording lion prides and if the pride wasn’t in existence before Kruger was established did the pride originate from another Pride through a couple of lionesses breaking away from a core pride? If the latter happened what was the name of the core pride they originated from?
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Tonpa - 03-14-2023
Don' t think the Manyeleti male belongs on any kill list, his cause of death is unknown
Him and his brother at Nkorho Pan after the fight, you can see him limping.
After that they entered the Kruger national park and 3 months later only one male returned.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 03-15-2023
@T_Ferguson Mapogos definitely fought the KNP, IIRC more than once, but were defeated and after the last clash both KNP males were sighted in top condition before Limper was finally seen in bad shape.
Unless some small injury infected or he had another fight with Mapogos then his death is unrelated to them. I doubt it was another clash with Mapogos because Mapogos had no idea the enemy was injured/dead and they left the area defeated.