+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: The Mighty Mapogos (/topic-the-mighty-mapogos)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Potato - 05-09-2022
Saying that young males are just ticklig older male is some absurd. Lions are designed by nature killing machines and the canines of of 200 kg cat are not tickling, but making deep wounds. Lions with ageing are not getting armored, immune for bites of other lions.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 05-09-2022
Yeah there's no way a lion is shrugging off another male's mauling his back even if the foe is much smaller.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Tr1x24 - 05-09-2022
(05-09-2022, 02:10 AM)Potato Wrote: Saying that young males are just ticklig older male is some absurd. Lions are designed by nature killing machines and the canines of of 200 kg cat are not tickling, but making deep wounds. Lions with ageing are not getting armored, immune for bites of other lions.
(05-09-2022, 04:15 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Yeah there's no way a lion is shrugging off another male's mauling his back even if the foe is much smaller.
You guys do understand that i said "tickling" as metaphor?
Point is that these 2 young males couldnt kill him, they neither seriusly injured him.
This has nothing to do vs Majingilanes vs Selatis, its my response to @Mapokser saying that any 2 young males (younger then 3-3.5), 2 lionesses or even subadults could kill adult male if they want, which is false, because if they could, they would, but it never happened. Young lions need to reach certain age to be able to do it, when they are strong enough, bite of 2-3 yrs old lion or lioness is not the same as adult male.
They dont "respect" male lion, they are afraid to get killed and injured , thats why they run and not attack him.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Tr1x24 - 05-09-2022
(05-09-2022, 01:52 AM)Mapokser Wrote: I assumed he eventually died from his wounds despite the claims he was recovering well. He took a 4v1 beaten and was never saved, Majingilane just left him, I imagine thinking he was done for.
But regardless, it's absurd to think he would be in any condition to do anything in the next clash considering how badly he was beaten, and since we have no report of the final clash, we can't say they clashed 4v3. If anything the most likely scenario is that the other 2 ran and the Selatis finished the other off since he couldn't keep up due to his wounds, but even then is speculation.
Again, all 3 Selatis where together roaring and patroling nights before final takeover, Selati #3 looked perfecly fine.
Maybe that event was final clash and reports are bit mixed, idk, but it was not 4 vs 1, all Selatis where involved, Selati #3 was a victim who got caught.
But yea, now we are way out of topic.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Gabriele - 05-09-2022
*This image is copyright of its original author
Fighting till his last breath!
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 05-10-2022
(05-09-2022, 09:28 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(05-09-2022, 02:10 AM)Potato Wrote: Saying that young males are just ticklig older male is some absurd. Lions are designed by nature killing machines and the canines of of 200 kg cat are not tickling, but making deep wounds. Lions with ageing are not getting armored, immune for bites of other lions.(05-09-2022, 04:15 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Yeah there's no way a lion is shrugging off another male's mauling his back even if the foe is much smaller.
You guys do understand that i said "tickling" as metaphor?
Point is that these 2 young males couldnt kill him, they neither seriusly injured him.
This has nothing to do vs Majingilanes vs Selatis, its my response to @Mapokser saying that any 2 young males (younger then 3-3.5), 2 lionesses or even subadults could kill adult male if they want, which is false, because if they could, they would, but it never happened. Young lions need to reach certain age to be able to do it, when they are strong enough, bite of 2-3 yrs old lion or lioness is not the same as adult male.
They dont "respect" male lion, they are afraid to get killed and injured , thats why they run and not attack him.
There're videos and photos of 2 lionesses defeating adult male lions, forcing him to retreat after getting a beating. Even hyenas can hurt lions, never mind other smaller lions. When one of the Avocas caught a matriarch hyena some years ago, she bit him back, forcing him to let her go despite him going for a brutal attack, lions aren't make of steel and even lionesses have very long canines and a strong bite force, they would for sure injure a male.
If you believe an old SN Majingilane could have defeated his 3 sons with big manes already, I don't know what to tell you. They lacked so much confidence that they didn't even chased a single nomad Avoca eating with them.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Tr1x24 - 05-10-2022
(05-10-2022, 04:08 AM)Mapokser Wrote: If you believe an old SN Majingilane could have defeated his 3 sons with big manes already, I don't know what to tell you. They lacked so much confidence that they didn't even chased a single nomad Avoca eating with them.
On that kill was 2 S. Avocas and 3 Tooth Tsalala, 2 Avocas run immiditately, 3T stayed and faced SN.
All those young males where over 4 yrs old, we where talking about younger males (under 3.5/3 yrs old) /subs, over 4 yrs old males are already starting to become territorial, they obiviously can kill adult male, at their age Majingilanes where already territorial.
(05-10-2022, 04:08 AM)Mapokser Wrote: There're videos and photos of 2 lionesses defeating adult male lions, forcing him to retreat after getting a beating. Even hyenas can hurt lions, never mind other smaller lions. When one of the Avocas caught a matriarch hyena some years ago, she bit him back, forcing him to let her go despite him going for a brutal attack, lions aren't make of steel and even lionesses have very long canines and a strong bite force, they would for sure injure a male.
Ofc that females can chase males, especially when they are in number advantages, but in the end they cant defeat them in long term, they always submit, otherwise why then they dont protect their cubs in takeover? Why their cubs get killed by new males if they are so powerful? Because they cant, they dont have the power.
That hyena would be killed if DM really wanted, but he saw it is not worth it as she fight back quite well.. 10+ hyenas dont dare to attack a male.
My point is theres a reason why young males (under 3.5/3 yrs of age), subs and females run away from adult males, you are saying "but if they have confidence they can defeat them", but they dont have confidence, what prevents confidence? Fear, fear of getting injured /killed as they are too weak. Theres a reason why young males after 4 yrs of average start to challenge adult males, because they gain confidence as they feel they are strong enough and still many of them die because they where not ready.
In a simulation, where you turn of that "fear factor" and just let them fight, yes, idk just for example 4 females, 15 2,3 yrs old subs, or 20 hyenas would prob eventually kill a male lion, but this will not happen in the reality so pointless to even discuss that.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 05-11-2022
(05-10-2022, 11:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: On that kill was 2 S. Avocas and 3 Tooth Tsalala, 2 Avocas run immiditately, 3T stayed and faced SN.
Stayed and faced SN? They all run immediately ( 4:19 https://youtu.be/v2pBauP7YDM ) besides one who was submissive for a few seconds before running too, which proves my point, they respect and fear dominant males until they build enough confidence and experience. But it's clear that if they were to fight, the old SN would stand no chance.
(05-10-2022, 11:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: Ofc that females can chase males, especially when they are in number advantages, but in the end they cant defeat them in long term
Then if you agree 2 females can beat and chase a dominant male, there's no reason 2 bigger nomads couldn't. They don't need to kill their foe, only chase him and kill their cubs.
Btw, male coalitions usually range from 2-5 males, and we know of stupidly big coalitions with much more males, but how many adult lionesses you think there's in an average pride? The Mlowathi ( even with help of other Mapogos sometimes ) spent more than 1 year trying to conquer the Styx Pride, they had 5-6 adult lionesses at the time, which proved to be a huge challenge for them.
If you have 2 males and 4 adult lionesses, obviously they won't be able to protect the cubs, and I doubt they usually outnumber the males 3-1, plus there are plenty of other reasons, like if some are hunting and others babysitting, the coalition can kill the cubs at that moment, and so on.
(05-10-2022, 11:57 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote: That hyena would be killed if DM really wanted
So the Avoca male was holding back? Come on man. It was a brutal attack, even the ranger describes as such: 1:24 https://youtu.be/qQy3pEwxSqs
Just like the ranger says, she escaped because he counter-attacked viciously, she bit his pawn and face, he felt pain and stopped the attack, allowing her to escape. Lions aren't made of steel.
Hyenas are similar in that regard of respect for males with full manes, even 10 hyenas or more will usually run when a lion charges, but in an actual fight, the lion wouldn't be able to do anything to that many hyenas, but they fear and respect males too much.
Yes they are afraid of injuries, and you're right that there's a reason they generally challenge males when they reach 4yo because the risks of injuries are much smaller, they are now fully-grown and will have an easier fight.
Anyway we're too off-topic.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Gabriele - 05-12-2022
Sadness. Especially when they are old, fragile, thin, in danger, you want to caress them, hug them on the mane and touch each other with their heads, to make them understand that they must not be afraid, that everything will be fine.
I know that a wild cat weighing over 200 kg would tear your head off. That's not the point. But, despite all their courage, their value, their dignity, they cannot fail to arouse empathy and affection.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Gabriele - 05-22-2022
Leopard Hills on July 11th, 2010
Makulu begins roaring and the other Mapogos follow in turn. Nobody knows exactly what happened and why Rasta disappeared without a trace, while Pretty Boy was badly injured in the spine
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - afortich - 05-23-2022
(05-12-2022, 01:40 AM)Gabriele Wrote:
Sadness. Especially when they are old, fragile, thin, in danger, you want to caress them, hug them on the mane and touch each other with their heads, to make them understand that they must not be afraid, that everything will be fine.
I know that a wild cat weighing over 200 kg would tear your head off. That's not the point. But, despite all their courage, their value, their dignity, they cannot fail to arouse empathy and affection.
Very deep words at your heading. I like them and agree.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Hairy tummy - 05-23-2022
What are the likely scenarios for rasta going missing and pretty boy receiving wounds?
Just thinking, Wouldnt poachers be put off with so many safari's around the mopogo/in the area at the time?
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Leo Aslan - 05-23-2022
The Mapogo Lions chasing Leopard Dewane
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Gabriele - 05-23-2022
(05-23-2022, 05:33 AM)Hairy tummy Wrote: What are the likely scenarios for rasta going missing and pretty boy receiving wounds?
Just thinking, Wouldnt poachers be put off with so many safari's around the mopogo/in the area at the time?
In my opinion, even if Mapogo fans deny it (I am also a Mapogo fan, but you have to look at the odds), it is much more likely that Rasta was killed by the Majinjis and Pretty Boy was injured, they were brothers and often patrolled together in fact. It is said that the others were not injured. Nothing could be simpler than two beasts like Makulu and Dreadlock, together with Mr T who enter the scene and save PB now wounded, but Rasta dead, while the Majinjis, in inferiority, flee. In Sabi Sands and Kruger you don't walk around, it is very dangerous, and the dead lion may not have been left near a road that can be traveled by a vehicle. It would explain why it was never found.
RE: The Mighty Mapogos - Mapokser - 05-26-2022
(05-23-2022, 05:33 AM)Hairy tummy Wrote: What are the likely scenarios for rasta going missing and pretty boy receiving wounds?
Just thinking, Wouldnt poachers be put off with so many safari's around the mopogo/in the area at the time?
In 2008 a ranger said there were talks all over SS to move or kill some of the Mapogos, but such decision could only be made by the higher ups from the KNP so it's not impossible that they had a hand on killing or allowing Rasta to get shot.
That said, given PB's wounds, it's way more likely the twins bumped onto the hiding Majingilane and were defeated.