(03-16-2020, 10:13 PM)Potato Wrote: I never claimed that there was documented confrontation, but that by that time PB carry some nasty injures which are suggesting some fight happened there. That if Rasta was part of it is only a theory, but since it is not documented how Rasta die theorys are only thinks we are left with.

(03-17-2020, 12:39 AM)AbcXyz Wrote: Cmon, you can't predict the outcome of a fight between 2 experienced male lions and 4 rookies. Please keep these comments for YouTube, where you are so active, and don't confuse a reputed forum with the comments section of YT.

Reversing the logic, and assuming that Rasta was possible killed by Majingilanes because we don't know how he died, it's just another unfounded speculation.

Can we restrict here to the evidence and let the personal opinions for Facebook or other places? Thank you!

(03-17-2020, 02:06 AM)Matimbalani Wrote: This debate is very sterile and useless. It seems to bring out a lot of misunderstanding and acrimony. I don't think anyone can prove or disprove anything at this point: most of the debate is emotional and just outright juvenile. 

I value everyone's contribution on this broad and I encourage everyone to focus on the lions that are living and breathing.

(03-17-2020, 02:19 PM)AbcXyz Wrote: For people who still believe in a fight between Mapogos and Majingilanes after Kinky Tail's death I suggest this useful writing from March 2, 2011: 
https://blog.londolozi.com/2011/03/02/the-lions-the-majingilane-coalition

The relevant part is:

"However, what was billed to be the ‘Greatest showdown of male lions ever seen’, never actually materialized, although there are supporters who claim the fight will still take place…"

If someone thinks that know more than Adam Bannister, then please DON'T let us know.

(03-18-2020, 12:26 AM)AbcXyz Wrote:

(03-17-2020, 07:47 PM)Shadow Wrote: This is from Londolozi blog discussion thread in which some people gave comments and told, that Rasta would have been killed by Majingilanes. Here is what Adam Bannister wrote in discussion thread:

Adam Bannister
Member

Guest
Okay, well firstly thank you so much to everyone for responding. This post has been up for about 20 hours and has had already had a huge response. I have collated information from blog, facebook and emails and have established that another 5 lions need to be added to the list as seen above in the text…
So this is the list as it stands so far (please feel free to keep adding, subtracting or questioning this as this is the only way we will get a clear idea of the impact they have had.)
2 Mapogo Males
4 Tsalala Youngsters
1 Sparta Female
1 Sparta sub-adult Male
3 Breakaway Sparta Youngsters
1 Southern Pride/Selati Male
1 Male from the 2 + 1 Pride
1 Styx adult Female
2 Styx sub-adult Females
= 16 lions
Can anyone give clarity about whether they have had any impact on the Toulon Males. In terms of the Golf Course Male, we basically watched him deteriorate and die. The Majingilane may have influenced his death but I don’t think his death came as a result of a Majingi tooth or claw


So also Bannister keeps it probable, that Rasta was killed in fight with Majingilanes here. I have no idea if he has changed his mind after this. If someone has doubts, read this:

https://blog.londolozi.com/2011/06/30/majingilane-coalition-one-year-down-the-lion/


Now then what comes to discussion overall. This thread is about Mapogos. With Rasta, situation is that he disappeared and there isn´t 100% certainty about his destiny. So people speculate. When we look at male lions in their prime, there aren´t too many reasons why a prime male lion just vanish.


1. People, someone shot a lion etc.
2. Other lion or lions, many males die in fights with rival lions/coalitions. Maybe most probable reason to assume, when some animal disappears like Rasta did.
3. Some unlucky incident with some big herbivore, elephant, rhino, cape buffalo, giraffe etc. 
4. Confrontation with some other predator. Big crocodile in deep water (in areas where rivers with crocodiles) might be one even though I´ve never heard about such case, actually surprising a bit. Big clan of hyenas, even though very unlikely scenario when talking about healthy adult male lion. If a prime male lion dies in fight with another predator, there simply is almost only one real possibility, another lion (In Africa at least).

So how did Rasta die.... everyone can think which one above is most probable. I assume personally, that he met another male lion/lions. Speculation, but in this thread some speculation has to be allowed, when it´s with reasoning. We can´t deny civilized discussion from people, who are interested about these lions and like to change thoughts. There is no need to be emotional really. One can keep one theory more probable, someone else thinks that some other theory is closer to the truth. In situation like this different people can say what they assume that happened and why, then people who read can decide themselves what they keep as the most probable.

In an absence of any detail I could believe that Bannister made a typo. Don't you? Anyway, a comment is a comment, while a report is something else, more reliable, for sure.

In the end, I don't care that much what Bannister said. I know very well what I read and there was no confrontation between the two coalitions after Kinky Tail's death.

I don't agree with your support for speculations, but even these can have some degrees of decency. You can say that your opinion is this or that (again, I disagree with this, too!), but to come up with fantasies that they fought 4 vs 2 is another story, a hard to grasp one.

(03-18-2020, 01:51 AM)AbcXyz Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 12:37 AM)Shadow Wrote:

(03-18-2020, 12:26 AM)AbcXyz Wrote:

(03-17-2020, 07:47 PM)Shadow Wrote: This is from Londolozi blog discussion thread in which some people gave comments and told, that Rasta would have been killed by Majingilanes. Here is what Adam Bannister wrote in discussion thread:

Adam Bannister
Member

Guest
Okay, well firstly thank you so much to everyone for responding. This post has been up for about 20 hours and has had already had a huge response. I have collated information from blog, facebook and emails and have established that another 5 lions need to be added to the list as seen above in the text…
So this is the list as it stands so far (please feel free to keep adding, subtracting or questioning this as this is the only way we will get a clear idea of the impact they have had.)
2 Mapogo Males
4 Tsalala Youngsters
1 Sparta Female
1 Sparta sub-adult Male
3 Breakaway Sparta Youngsters
1 Southern Pride/Selati Male
1 Male from the 2 + 1 Pride
1 Styx adult Female
2 Styx sub-adult Females
= 16 lions
Can anyone give clarity about whether they have had any impact on the Toulon Males. In terms of the Golf Course Male, we basically watched him deteriorate and die. The Majingilane may have influenced his death but I don’t think his death came as a result of a Majingi tooth or claw


So also Bannister keeps it probable, that Rasta was killed in fight with Majingilanes here. I have no idea if he has changed his mind after this. If someone has doubts, read this:

https://blog.londolozi.com/2011/06/30/majingilane-coalition-one-year-down-the-lion/


Now then what comes to discussion overall. This thread is about Mapogos. With Rasta, situation is that he disappeared and there isn´t 100% certainty about his destiny. So people speculate. When we look at male lions in their prime, there aren´t too many reasons why a prime male lion just vanish.


1. People, someone shot a lion etc.
2. Other lion or lions, many males die in fights with rival lions/coalitions. Maybe most probable reason to assume, when some animal disappears like Rasta did.
3. Some unlucky incident with some big herbivore, elephant, rhino, cape buffalo, giraffe etc. 
4. Confrontation with some other predator. Big crocodile in deep water (in areas where rivers with crocodiles) might be one even though I´ve never heard about such case, actually surprising a bit. Big clan of hyenas, even though very unlikely scenario when talking about healthy adult male lion. If a prime male lion dies in fight with another predator, there simply is almost only one real possibility, another lion (In Africa at least).

So how did Rasta die.... everyone can think which one above is most probable. I assume personally, that he met another male lion/lions. Speculation, but in this thread some speculation has to be allowed, when it´s with reasoning. We can´t deny civilized discussion from people, who are interested about these lions and like to change thoughts. There is no need to be emotional really. One can keep one theory more probable, someone else thinks that some other theory is closer to the truth. In situation like this different people can say what they assume that happened and why, then people who read can decide themselves what they keep as the most probable.

In an absence of any detail I could believe that Bannister made a typo. Don't you? Anyway, a comment is a comment, while a report is something else, more reliable, for sure.

In the end, I don't care that much what Bannister said. I know very well what I read and there was no confrontation between the two coalitions after Kinky Tail's death.

I don't agree with your support for speculations, but even these can have some degrees of decency. You can say that your opinion is this or that (again, I disagree with this, too!), but to come up with fantasies that they fought 4 vs 2 is another story, a hard to grasp one.

First Bannister was very important, now then when you see something you don´t like, you don´t care. Think a moment now how you make yourself to look like.

Then again, read that blog and all comments, typo there? Not looking like to be so. But of course if Bannister is as you say, meaningless person when talking about Mapogos... interesting.

You don´t need to agree to my support for some speculation, but you need to change your attitude if you want to participate to discussion here. You demean now other posters with no reason, like your latest reply to potato. If you can´t write with reasoning and if you keep showing animosity towards posters who tell what they think in civilized way, then here is a problem. You are free to say what you think, that happened to Rasta, what made it to disappear. But if you still try to demean other posters with no good reason, that will be stopped.

In fact, for me Bannister was never important! (In all my research about Rasta's death he was never taken into consideration for some good reasons that I don't want to explain here.) I posted an excerpt from his report in order to stop you and others to fabulate. But it seems you are so dedicated to the unfounded opinions that this was in vain.

Now you started to invent that I showed animosity towards other users when I simply called everyone to come back to Earth. What's next?

And FYI I don't want to participate to any discussion on this forum. I posted here some of my own findings, all of them based on documents. Can you say something similar about you?