Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur - Printable Version +- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum) +-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section) +--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals) +---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats) +----- Forum: Tiger (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-tiger) +----- Thread: Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur (/topic-who-is-the-king-of-tigers-bengal-or-amur) |
RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 Skin from tiger above whose skull i photographed: [attachment=129] [attachment=130] Skin length (including head and tail) approx. 285cm [attachment=131] [attachment=132] Width across back legs approx. 196cm [attachment=133] Width across centre of belly approx. 111cm [attachment=134] Width across 'underarm' of forelegs approx. 104cm [attachment=135] Width across front legs approx. 224cm [attachment=136] [attachment=137] RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 09-15-2015 AMAZING!!! Excellent work @Thebingthing, great work. I also see that @peter is here too, that is great, he is a real expert in this issues. Well, from what I see here, the skull dimensions are these: Greatest skull length: c.340 mm. Condylobasal length: 299 mm. Bizygomatic breath: 240 mm. Height: 174 mm. The greatest skull length could be somewhat longer, as the crest is broken. The condylobasal is larger, because you didn't take in count the incisors, I did it in a Photoshop image and the result was the one above. In fact, the skull is slightly smaller than the average (based in Mazák (1983)), but still range in the dimensions of a male Bengal tiger. Congratulations, you have a great specimen at hand. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GrizzlyClaws - 09-15-2015 By judging the canine tooth, this is not a young tiger. A young tiger would have smooth texture at the root of the canine tooth (with cavity inside), while this one got pretty rough texture which means the canine tooth is fully solid. I think this male is just a bit above the average. PS, to demonstrate the total length of the canine tooth in ratio to the skull length is also helpful to me, thank you. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 Smaller tiger for which the skull is still in the rug (unknown origin, and unknown which subspecies given size or whether juvenile). As a rug this will have had some trimming to attempt to make symettrical etc [attachment=138] Length (including head and tail) approx. 255cm [attachment=139] [attachment=140] Width across forelegs approx. 174cm [attachment=141] Width of 'underarms' of forelegs approx. 80cm [attachment=142] Width of belly approx. 68cm [attachment=143] Width across back legs approx. 161cm [attachment=144] Unable to ascertain size of teeth, but as you can see extremely small teeth and skull for this tiger: [attachment=145] [attachment=146] RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GrizzlyClaws - 09-15-2015 This one is clearly a juvenile, as he/she just got swapped its milk teeth for the adult teeth. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 Thanks so much @GuateGojira and @GrizzlyClaws. Its great to find out more about it, so I appreciate your reviews and expertise RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 (09-15-2015, 04:52 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote: This one is clearly a juvenile, as he/she just got swapped its milk teeth for the adult teeth. Would you still say its a Bengal? If it is a juvenile then I assume it could be, but wondered if it may be something else - I have found it a bit difficult to determine from any pattern markings. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - peter - 09-15-2015 Hello Guate! Good to see you. You got the job you were after? As to how to measure the greatest total length and the condylobasal length. This is from Pocock (1939, pp. 203): " ... Total length is the length from the tip of the occipital crest to the front edge of the premaxillae; the condylobasal length is to the same point from the hind border of the occipital condyle ... ". The incisors of the upper skull shouldn't be incorporated, that is. I would want to see another photograph of the tape and the zygomatic arches to get to an opinion. The skull, however, is quite elevated at the orbit and also seems to be robust. We will have to wait for the weight to get to an opinion. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GrizzlyClaws - 09-15-2015 If it is an adult specimen of a small tiger subspecies, then it must have much larger canine teeth than this one. And the stripe pattern is reminiscent to that of the Bengal tiger to me. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 Weight of tiger skull is 1.766kg with missing single upper canine. Single upper canine weighed separately is 62g. Total skull weight if it had the upper canine would therefore be 1.828kg RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 09-15-2015 (09-15-2015, 05:14 AM)peter Wrote: Hello Guate! Good to see you. You got the job you were after? That is weird, is the first time that I see this case. All the other documents that I have saw, including Mazák and all the prehistoric cats, do take in count the space of the incisors. As they use calipers, there is no danger to exaggerate the actual length. In this case, I guess that the real condylobasal lengths of Pocock were somewhat larger than what he reports. Edit: @peter, the front edge of the premaxillae do include the space of the incisors, there is no problem with Pocock. Check this image: *This image is copyright of its original author Check measurement No. 1, this is the correct form to take the condylobasal length, as far I understand. it includes the space of the incisors. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 (09-15-2015, 04:22 AM)peter Wrote: Many thanks, Jonathan. Excellent. A few remarks: Hi peter, I'm sorry but I am not clear on the pm4 or rostrum measurements - am happy to get them but not sure exactly what is needed, apologies if I'm being dumb. Skull weight is 1.766kg (missing upper canine) and 0.062kg for the remaining upper canine - so total of 1.828kg. Mandibula on its own is 0.606kg. Hope that helps. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GrizzlyClaws - 09-15-2015 (09-15-2015, 05:30 AM)Thebingthing Wrote: Weight of tiger skull is 1.766kg with missing single upper canine. The canine tooth from your tiger skull has helped me how to distinguish the shape of the Bengal tiger's canine teeth from other tiger subspecies'. This must also be a Bengal fang, since it is very similar to yours. *This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Thebingthing - 09-15-2015 (09-15-2015, 05:55 AM)GrizzlyClaws Wrote:(09-15-2015, 05:30 AM)Thebingthing Wrote: Weight of tiger skull is 1.766kg with missing single upper canine. Awesome! RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GrizzlyClaws - 09-15-2015 Just check my thread, and you will find out the different types of the big cat canine teeth. http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-big-cat-s-canines-and-claws |