Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur - Printable Version +- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum) +-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section) +--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals) +---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats) +----- Forum: Tiger (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-tiger) +----- Thread: Who is the "king" of tigers? - Bengal or Amur (/topic-who-is-the-king-of-tigers-bengal-or-amur) |
RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pantherinae - 05-21-2015 (05-21-2015, 01:38 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:yeah it would be hard to say for sure!(05-21-2015, 01:05 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: Hey every tiger fanatics and experts I was having a discussion with another bigcat entusiast today and we where discussing who's the biggest know atleast male tiger in the past 10-15 years. Except kaziranga tigers you think Jai is bigger than Wagdoh? I did not think of Jai, but he's surely massive and looks like a bigger framed tiger than Wagdoh. I said Wagdoh or Madla (Madla is what I would call the perfect tiger, tall, long and very muscular) earlier, the other guy said Munna, but that can't be right? RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 06-27-2015 (06-27-2015, 05:28 AM)'illkilla' Wrote: Where is this guy from? Big tiger for sure. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 06-30-2015 (06-30-2015, 06:38 AM)'illkilla' Wrote: Just wild tigers and try to give a description of where the tiger is from, etc. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 07-27-2015 (05-17-2015, 10:52 AM)'GuateGojira' Wrote: Comparison image: Im discussing the Amur comparision with Warsaw and he is stating that its not correct because Amurs were measured over the curves while bengals where measured between the pegs. Im just curious if all Amurs used were between the pegs or curves, if the sizes were adjusted, etc. Thanks Guate RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - tigerluver - 07-27-2015 @Pckts, Kerley et al. (2005?) cites Nowell and Jackson (1996) as a guide for measurements. Here is the picture from that document on p. 315: *This image is copyright of its original author And here is Nowell and Jackson (1996): http://www.carnivoreconservation.org/files/actionplans/wildcats.pdf RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 07-28-2015 (07-27-2015, 11:49 PM)'tigerluver' Wrote: @Pckts, Kerley et al. (2005?) cites Nowell and Jackson (1996) as a guide for measurements. Here is the picture from that document on p. 315: Thank you, so it looks like its done in a straight line. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 08-09-2015 (07-27-2015, 11:01 PM)Pckts Wrote:GuateGojira\ dateline='\'1431840172' Wrote: Comparison image: @tigerluver made an excellent explanation, so I will only support his words. The specimens measured by the Siberian Tiger Project (S.T.P.) were taken in a straight line, like the document of Nowell & Jackson (1996) stated. This is clearly explained by Kerley et al. (2005), however in the same debate in AVA, Warsaw claimed that this was not the case, although he was unable to provide evidence, only his/her weird and long posts. However, I showed the direct evidence, provided photographs and it was showed that in fact, those tigers were measured in straight line. In my comparative image, I used only body measurements from the S.T.P. for the Amur tiger because I was unable to found the original sources of the "old" measurements quoted by Heptner & Sludskii, and at the end, my previous tables here showed that there is no significant difference between the body of the "old" and the "modern" Amur tigers, the difference is only in the weight and obviously the chest girth. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 08-10-2015 Im just going to post what Warsaw posted here [u][i]"In my comparative image, I used only body measurements from the S.T.P. for the Amur tiger because I was unable to found the original sources of the "old" measurements quoted by Heptner & Sludskii,"[/u][/i] *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author From Mammals of the Soviet Union Geptner et al. Page 138,139 http://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/100172#page/167/mode/1up Per warsaw. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 08-11-2015 Warsaw always twist the data and the words of others. Like you most remember (and all the people that have followed this forum since the beginning), I explained very well why I used the data from Heptner & Sludskii, as it was the only one available with body measurements from the old records. Peter and I had discussions about the reliability of the data, however we get to the conclusion that the measurements were "useful" and at some point, more or less reliable. However, for that same reason, I only used the measurements from the Siberian Tiger Project in my comparative image, because they are the only 100% reliable and if we compare the old and new sizes, they are about the same, indepently if the "old" measurements were taken "over curves" or "between pegs". Now, if the old sizes result to be taken over curves or not, we can't be sure, as the table of Heptner & Sludskii is full with mistakes, like most of the Russian literature. Is like Valliant said: in the old Russia, there was a thin like between the "story" and the "legend". Warsaw and his twists is the best example of this. Now, what Warsay is trying to prove is that my image of 2015 include this "old" measurements, which is not the case. He/she is so stupid that he/she can see that the measurements of Heptner & Sludskii are only included in my document of the size of the Amur tiger (the one that I constantly actualize), and are there only for comparison. Sadly, Warsaw is unable to see beyond his/her biased nose. The experience has show that is silly to discuss with Warsaw, because he/she never listen to the evidence and constantly run in circles, so I stay with the evidence: Amur tigers were measured in straight line and the document of Kerley et al. (2005) clearly say it, as they used Nowell & Jackson (1996) as base for method of the measurements. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 08-11-2015 (05-02-2015, 09:32 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Body size of the Amur tiger - version 2015: This is what I am talking about. Check that there is no mixed data, those from the modern studies (table 1 and 2) are completely separated from those of the "old" records (table 3 and 4). Besides, the objective of the inclusion of the "old" records is to see how little, if any, variation has been in body size for this tiger population. Interesting to see that Warsaw always said that the data from tigers in the old literature is unreliable, but that of the bears doesn't. He don't even deserve my attention. Let him/her bark in Carnivora, I am not interesting in discussing with a biased ignorant. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 08-11-2015 @GuateGojira Does this report https://www.panthera.org/sites/default/files/STF/2005-0013-025.pdf have anything to do with the tigers used on the table presented? The names of the scientist here are not used as references so I wanted to make sure. Warsaw is trying to say they are involved in the measurements used, I also don't see any mention of being measured "over the curves" on the report but he said they are. Thanks for your time. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 08-12-2015 Check that the document don't mention anything about measurements. Warsaw only quote this document because of the picture, specially by the fact that the tape seems loose in the back of the tigress. HOWEVER, the problem with Warsaw statements is that no photograph show the act of measuring, what we see here is Nikolai placing the tape over the back before the tape been stretched over the back. If Linda Kerley and all her team wrote that the tigers were measured in straight line, following the protocols established by Nowell & Jackson (1996), of course that I will believe in them. Warsaw is just trashing the tiger, like always, so I suggest to you to ignore him, he is not important. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 08-12-2015 (08-12-2015, 09:31 AM)GuateGojira Wrote: Check that the document don't mention anything about measurements. Warsaw only quote this document because of the picture, specially by the fact that the tape seems loose in the back of the tigress. HOWEVER, the problem with Warsaw statements is that no photograph show the act of measuring, what we see here is Nikolai placing the tape over the back before the tape been stretched over the back. If Linda Kerley and all her team wrote that the tigers were measured in straight line, following the protocols established by Nowell & Jackson (1996), of course that I will believe in them. Also, that document only captured Tiger cubs outside of a tigress with cubs who was killing dogs. None of the tigers nor the people involved with the report are used on your tables. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - GuateGojira - 08-14-2015 Those people are not quoted because they are not primary sources, nor they published anything directly. I quote the writer of the articles, and we believe in them, after all, what reason they could have to lie about how they measure they cats? It is illogical to think otherwise. RE: Who is the "King" of the tigers? - Pckts - 08-15-2015 @GrizzlyClaws @Kingtheropod So is the Baikal that was killed the same Baikal that weighed 850lbs? Here is what warsaw showed on his stud book and what not *This image is copyright of its original author name Baikal (Birth Date:3 Sep 1995) Toronto Zoo= Birth 3 Sep 1995 ST JOHN =Cherry Brook Zoo Transfer 4 Jul 1997 WINNIPEG = Assiniboine Park Zoo Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada=Transfer 5 Jun 2009 General Contact Information: Cherry Brook Zoo Inc. 901 Foster Thurston Drive Saint John, NB E2K 5H9 http://www.cherrybrookzoo.com/contact.html "Baikal was on loan from a Toronto zoo and arrived in Winnipeg in 2009 from Cherry Brook Zoo in Saint John, N.B. for the purpose of mating" http://www.winnipegsun.com/2014/09/25/tiger-killed-by-younger-tiger-at-assiniboine-park-zoo Male tiger in NB heading to Winnipeg in hopes of mating with female in zoo SAINT JOHN, N.B. - Every young man needs to move out of his parents' house and sow some wild oats. Baikal the tiger is no different. Baikal is a 12-year old Siberian tiger who has lived at the Cherry Brook Zoo in Saint John for 10 years in an enclosure with his 20-year old mother, Pam. This is his last weekend at the. http://www.obj.ca/Business/Agriculture/2009-05-30/article-355093/Male-tiger-in-NB-heading-to-Winnipeg-in-hopes-of-mating-with-female-in-zoo/1 *This image is copyright of its original author
|