John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Printable Version +- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum) +-- Forum: Nature & Conservation (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-nature-conservation) +--- Forum: Projects, Protected areas & Issues (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-projects-protected-areas-issues) +--- Thread: John Varty & Tiger Canyon (/topic-john-varty-tiger-canyon) |
RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 02-05-2019 These John Varty's Tiger Canyon's Tigers are unique, beautiful and huge than anywhere else in the world with this type of all rounder combination may be because they are hybrids of different populations of mainland tigers (tigris tigris) i.e.., Bengal- Amur captive population Hybrids. Show me any other tigers in the world beautiful than these Tiger Canyon Tigers. They are literally adorable. BIRD (name)-- a young tiger but dominant male. He looks similar to Bandhavgarh males of MP. Photo: ©Mark Shepherd Tiger Canyons, Great Project - wish it all the success it deserves RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 02-09-2019 Interesting Conversation in the Comment Section: DragonFae16: I approve of the idea of rewilding tigers. However, what I can't approve of is how inbred the population at Tiger Canyons is. Ron and Julie, brother and sister, were allowed to have a litter. Seatao was allowed to have a litter with Shine, his daughter. And Ussuri's litter from three years ago was fathered by Sariska, her cousin. Having this happen once could be called an accident. However, for it to happen repeatedly shows a total lack of regard for the long term health and well being of the tigers at Tiger Canyons. A population this inbred would be considered functionally extinct, as the lack of genetic diversity is at a point where the individuals would struggle to find an unrelated partner. If JV truly cared as much about tiger conservation and really did one day want to have his tigers released into their ancestral homeland, he wouldn't allow ANY inbreeding to occur. After the birth of Ussuri's cubs, I emailed him, expressing my concerns about the inbreeding that had happened, and he said that this wasn't inbreeding. Meaning he only sees sibling/sibling or parent/offspring matings as inbreeding, meaning he hasn't done any research into maintaining a stable population. If this inbreeding isn't halted, within a few generations, the tigers born here will be so compromised that they'll be incapable of sustaining themselves. I feel that until JV clearly states on his website the exact parentage of every cub born in the park and gives a guarantee that he will not allow any inbreeding to occur, people shouldn't go to visit Tiger Canyons. Otherwise it's just another case of a park exploiting their animals for their own gain while spouting pretty words. JohnVarty: 1. The offspring of Ron and Julie (Tiger Boy and Shy Boy), were sterilised. Both died without any cubs. 2. Shine was killed by Corbett before she had any cubs. She never mated with Seatao. He was her father and Julie was her mother! 3. Ussuri is the daughter of Seatao and Julie. Sariska was the son of Ron and Shadow. Ron and Julie were brother and sister. They have one daughter, Jameez. Have you ever been to Tiger Canyons? What is your name? DragonFae16: In the obituary to Seatao on the Tiger Canyons website, it says he mated with Shine. The video about Ussuri's cubs says Sariska is the father. As Ron and Julie were siblings, this makes Ussuri and Sariska first generation cousins. That means that if he really was the cubs' father this would be inbreeding. If the cubs were fathered by an unrelated male, that's all well and good then. However, there is no excuse if those cubs really were the result of a first generation cousin to cousin mating. Many think inbreeding only talks about sibling/sibling or parent/offspring matings. That's wrong. It is when any two closely related individuals reproduce. If the tigers at Tiger Canyons are there to be an insurance population of wild tigers in case tigers in other parts of the world go extinct, having a high level of genetic diversity and carefully controlling the breeding is a must. Populations of wild big cats that have been cut off and only consist of a few individuals show the devastation inbreeding can cause. I'm not a scientist who has done research on genetics, but as a layman's opinion, animals no closer than third cousins should breed. The fact that there isn't even a list on your website of each tiger living within Tiger Canyons brings doubt to this. If conservation was your true goal, you would be open and transparent about the number of tigers you have, their parentage and which other tigers they are being partnered with. The info on your website for the tigers for the most part is from 2009 and the family tree is from 2013. Your regular updates to the website shows that you are definitely active online and that the site hasn't fallen to the wayside due to lack of time. If conservation was your one and only goal, all female tigers would be fitted with contraceptive implants and all breeding would be tightly controlled, with the parents being as distantly related to each other as possible. Meaning that for every tiger you planned to breed from, an unrelated individual should be brought in from the outside. And to answer your fourth question, no, I haven't been to Tiger Canyons. When I first learned of it back in 2013, I did think that if one day I could get enough money to travel overseas, I would visit. But over time I became doubtful and suspicious that it was yet another park exploiting its animals for money under the guise of conservation. Though me not having been there doesn't mean I can't be concerned about the tigers and question things. If you wish to clear up those questions and prove you truly are just about conservation, be transparent. Make up to date bios including photos of each of the tigers and a complete family tree. Make regular updates to the bios, and even put the tigers up for adoption, being clear where the money from that goes. This would also likely increase the traffic to the website, thereby increasing the visitors to Tiger Canyons itself. I can't speak for everyone, but I personally read the newsletters that involve the tigers and far less of the newsletters involving other things. I already know poaching is bad. So bad it makes me feel sick everytime I think of it. Unless you have some brand new fact or figure, going over ground already tread can cause people to tune out. The tigers are something people can connect to, something hopeful. There was a white tigress called Tibo. If she's still alive, talk about if her white coat causes her difficulties. One day when you can procure a mate for her, talk about any difficulties her white colouring have brought to raising her cubs. Talk about the plight of tigers in the wild. Not elephants, not rhino. Talk about other big cat species, sure, but your focus should be on the tigers. There are plenty of others talking about what poachers are doing to elephants and rhinos. Rather than having your voice drowned in the crowd, speak up about something others aren't. I don't want what I've said to make you to think that I hate you or Tiger Canyons. I fully support any attempt to take captive born animals and rewild them. But if it isn't done right, it will just give critics a stone to throw on the whole idea. And I am aware that acquiring unrelated mates for your tigers is are more difficult for you than a zoo because you first have to train the tiger to be able to live wild. So, why not try artificial fertilization. If you were able to get it to work, not only would you be able to increase the genetic diversity of your population, you could show the world that it is a viable method to increase the world-wide population of tigers and other big cats. JohnVarty: Thanks you for your input. I will send your post to John Varty. Just a few things: Seatao's obituary states he bred the white tiger Shine - he was her father. Shine died before her first estrus. Shine never mated with anyone. Most of the females have contraceptive devices. We have done several vasectomies on male tigers. RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Rage2277 - 02-10-2019 By the way, turtle lovers watch don't recommend. Tiger Canyon, South Africa. RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Pckts - 02-19-2019 Tiger Canyons. Picture: Lorna Drew *This image is copyright of its original author
RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 02-28-2019 © Clint Ralph @clintralph_sa Two of Tigress Ussuri's cubs. Bengal Tigers, the ultimate long-tooth. These Tigers are part of the John Varty's conservation project where wild free-roaming Tigers roam Tiger Canyon hunting their own prey. The ultimate goal is to save the Tiger from extinction by having a gene pool in Africa as insurance. http://www.clintralphphotography.co.za Comment section Conversation of above post (me included):
RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 03-16-2019 Scroll or Swipe right to see more images about the deed. Lots of commotion as wild white tiger cub catches a baboon at Tiger Canyon. http://www.tigercanyon.com RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 03-26-2019 The leopard of Tiger canyons RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - smedz - 03-28-2019 I like the idea of rewilding tigers, but why do they have to do this in Africa instead of Asia? RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 03-28-2019 (03-28-2019, 02:32 AM)smedz Wrote: I like the idea of rewilding tigers, but why do they have to do this in Africa instead of Asia?Actually his plan is to do in India but no such permissions are entertained by the government. South Africa is ideal in Conservation business around the world. His idea is Asia's every corner is crawling with poachers due to those ******* Chinese demand but in South Africa these is no such problem in the "private reserves". His dream is also to release them into natural reserves alongside lions and other animals but govt put it in pending. (His dream is to see lions, tigers, leopard and cheetahs in same area. I talked to him about kuno lion reintroduction during CDV issue in Gir when he was supporting to do it.) So, he's running separate private park which are left sheep farms in Karoo near Philippolis free state province away from natural wilderness and recovering them into ecosystems and ecologically restoring and benefiting the balance by reintroducing natural prey and cheetah which is locally extinct and conserving tigers as apex predators which is self sustaining population outside Asia as a "species". If any catastrophe or poaching perishes asia's wild population (already extinction is occurring and wouldn't take too many years for finish off completely), these wild stock can be readily reintroduced. RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Rage2277 - 03-28-2019 africa and asia are the same landmass @smedz RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 03-28-2019 (03-28-2019, 09:14 AM)Rage2277 Wrote: africa and asia are the same landmass RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Rage2277 - 04-02-2019 RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - sanjay - 04-02-2019 Nice video, But where is real tiger Hunt? RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 04-02-2019 *This image is copyright of its original author Tiger cubs with karoo springbok in Tiger canyons. Credit @eden.is.everywhere LorEden RE: John Varty & Tiger Canyon - Sanju - 04-02-2019 Old Panna *This image is copyright of its original author Tiger rubs, Oria and Khumba have 3 young cubs carefully hidden in a den amongst the rocks. LorEden. *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author Oria and her cubs, Tiger Canyon LorEden. Ussuri and her cubs Tiger Canyon. *This image is copyright of its original author Tibo & Bird, Tiger Canyon. LorEden Ussuri and her cub, Tiger Canyon LorEden *This image is copyright of its original author Tibo patrolling her territory. Grumpy Bird *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author *This image is copyright of its original author
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