(08-12-2018, 10:39 AM)Wolverine Wrote:

(08-11-2018, 04:25 AM)peter Wrote:  
 c - Elephants


A century ago, in the northern part of India, elephant herds often had a tusker guarding the calves. According to Knowles (see above), male tigers and tuskers clashed at times. In his book, some of these were described.

I could confirm by personal experience that elephants do afraid of tigers. In Palamau (Betla) national park in 1993 our riding tourist elephant faced a tiger who was resting in a cave in distance 10-15 meters from us. Since I'm a bit short sighted I was not able to see the eyes of tiger in the cave darkness despite my fellow and the mahout several times told me that tiger is watching us. I asked the mahout to move elephant closer to the cave. When we approached in distance 10-15 meters from cave entrance suddenly the elephant started to tremble violently, with shake waves through all the animal's body from trunk to the tail. The animal was quite scared or at least very nervous in the presence of the big cat. This violent vibrations continued several minutes. I started to offer to mahout money to move the elephant even closer but he refused. Than I got mad to him because I didn't succeed to see the burning eyes of the tiger despite my other tourist fellow clearly saw.
But we have to take into account that Asiatic elephants in general are bit coward animals, they easily panic. There are cases when only a close roar of panther could cause whole elephant heard to flee away or start panic.
Here as pointed Rishi the important question is how tiger kill a giant herbivore (bovines excluded because they are not so gigantic). As we can see from this videos even for big prides of lions consisting of 14-20 cats is quite difficult to hunt subadult elephant and kick it down even when the lions in big numbers like grapes cover the victim's body:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxgx8Ah-hNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4nG4JsAyKY


 For solitary cat as tiger this should be very-very-very difficult...

*This image is copyright of its original author

(08-13-2018, 08:30 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(08-12-2018, 10:39 AM)Wolverine Wrote:

(08-11-2018, 04:25 AM)peter Wrote:  
 c - Elephants


A century ago, in the northern part of India, elephant herds often had a tusker guarding the calves. According to Knowles (see above), male tigers and tuskers clashed at times. In his book, some of these were described.

I could confirm by personal experience that elephants do afraid of tigers. In Palamau (Betla) national park in 1993 our riding tourist elephant faced a tiger who was resting in a cave in distance 10-15 meters from us. Since I'm a bit short sighted I was not able to see the eyes of tiger in the cave darkness despite my fellow and the mahout several times told me that tiger is watching us. I asked the mahout to move elephant closer to the cave. When we approached in distance 10-15 meters from cave entrance suddenly the elephant started to tremble violently, with shake waves through all the animal's body from trunk to the tail. The animal was quite scared or at least very nervous in the presence of the big cat. This violent vibrations continued several minutes. I started to offer to mahout money to move the elephant even closer but he refused. Than I got mad to him because I didn't succeed to see the burning eyes of the tiger despite my other tourist fellow clearly saw.
But we have to take into account that Asiatic elephants in general are bit coward animals, they easily panic. There are cases when only a close roar of panther could cause whole elephant heard to flee away or start panic.
Here as pointed Rishi the important question is how tiger kill a giant herbivore (bovines excluded because they are not so gigantic). As we can see from this videos even for big prides of lions consisting of 14-20 cats is quite difficult to hunt subadult elephant and kick it down even when the lions in big numbers like grapes cover the victim's body:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxgx8Ah-hNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4nG4JsAyKY


 For solitary cat as tiger this should be very-very-very difficult...

Nice story @Wolverine 

I think it also has to do with the captive Elephants that are used by the mahouts are not accustomed to Tigers compared to their wild cousins, they do have many encounters with Tigers obviously but it's always with a Mahout atop of them, even so, I've seen captive Elephants charge at Tigers as well but usually after the Tiger charges first maybe if they lived in their wild herds and had developed the natural hatred that comes from the natural circumstances, they'd probably be more like the one below.


Aswath Saravanan M‎
That's the power of elephant 

The largest land mammal showing it’s supremacy over strongest big cats.

*This image is copyright of its original author

(08-13-2018, 10:57 PM)paul cooper Wrote:

(08-13-2018, 08:30 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(08-12-2018, 10:39 AM)Wolverine Wrote:

(08-11-2018, 04:25 AM)peter Wrote:  
 c - Elephants


A century ago, in the northern part of India, elephant herds often had a tusker guarding the calves. According to Knowles (see above), male tigers and tuskers clashed at times. In his book, some of these were described.

I could confirm by personal experience that elephants do afraid of tigers. In Palamau (Betla) national park in 1993 our riding tourist elephant faced a tiger who was resting in a cave in distance 10-15 meters from us. Since I'm a bit short sighted I was not able to see the eyes of tiger in the cave darkness despite my fellow and the mahout several times told me that tiger is watching us. I asked the mahout to move elephant closer to the cave. When we approached in distance 10-15 meters from cave entrance suddenly the elephant started to tremble violently, with shake waves through all the animal's body from trunk to the tail. The animal was quite scared or at least very nervous in the presence of the big cat. This violent vibrations continued several minutes. I started to offer to mahout money to move the elephant even closer but he refused. Than I got mad to him because I didn't succeed to see the burning eyes of the tiger despite my other tourist fellow clearly saw.
But we have to take into account that Asiatic elephants in general are bit coward animals, they easily panic. There are cases when only a close roar of panther could cause whole elephant heard to flee away or start panic.
Here as pointed Rishi the important question is how tiger kill a giant herbivore (bovines excluded because they are not so gigantic). As we can see from this videos even for big prides of lions consisting of 14-20 cats is quite difficult to hunt subadult elephant and kick it down even when the lions in big numbers like grapes cover the victim's body:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxgx8Ah-hNE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4nG4JsAyKY


 For solitary cat as tiger this should be very-very-very difficult...

Nice story @Wolverine 

I think it also has to do with the captive Elephants that are used by the mahouts are not accustomed to Tigers compared to their wild cousins, they do have many encounters with Tigers obviously but it's always with a Mahout atop of them, even so, I've seen captive Elephants charge at Tigers as well but usually after the Tiger charges first maybe if they lived in their wild herds and had developed the natural hatred that comes from the natural circumstances, they'd probably be more like the one below.


Aswath Saravanan M‎
That's the power of elephant 

The largest land mammal showing it’s supremacy over strongest big cats.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Whos that male tiger with his cubs?

(08-25-2018, 12:40 AM)Spalea Wrote: @Apollo :

Sorry to object that the #1371 and #1372 videos are the same, the former being the extended latter for one minute. And this tiger, if I don't make a mistake, kills an axis deer.

(08-29-2018, 12:28 PM)paul cooper Wrote: @peter, on carnivora was going on a debate about gaur and buffaloes versus tigers. Do you know anything about this specific subject? What chance a tiger has a against a buffalo face to face?, and interactions between the two?

(05-16-2017, 10:29 PM)Rishi Wrote:

*This image is copyright of its original author

Pic. Courtesy: Jai Paranjpe
( https://m.facebook.com/story.php? )

"We sighted a tiger known as Dhaman Gaon Male killing a gaur. This image was made seconds before the tiger made the kill!!!.."

Wolverine Wrote: No, he is just more concentrated. If tiger decides to kill a particularbig animal, for example a gaur, he will finally kill it, he will hunt the gaur for many days. He will withdraw for hours to drink a water, to smell a signs for females or intruders, but he always keep in "mind" that he is hunting that particular animal.

(08-31-2018, 12:07 PM)Vegeta San Wrote:

Wolverine Wrote: No, he is just more concentrated. If tiger decides to kill a particularbig animal, for example a gaur, he will finally kill it, he will hunt the gaur for many days. He will withdraw for hours to drink a water, to smell a signs for females or intruders, but he always keep in "mind" that he is hunting that particular animal.

So you telling that tiger takes many days to kill a adult gaur? 
No you're wrong at this. It doesn't take much time for a Tiger to kill a healthy adult gaur. The last post of "Peter" has shown few cases of Tiger killing adult bull wild buffalos instantly.

There are cases of Tiger killing adult rhinos in recent times. Where in one case a subadult male tiger and adult female rhino found dead after a prolonged fight.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.kaziranga-national-park.com/blog/royal-bengal-tiger-and-rhinoceros-found-dead-in-kaziranga/&ved=2ahUKEwjxw7252JbdAhWYXn0KHQNcBmMQFjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0W9yDL_g-p5BTss0HRuYMx

What that means? It may take several hours to manage to kill a adult rhino in a fight but still succeed. 
A buffalo is not a formidable opponent than a adult rhino. 

And another I liked to say is. No gaur contain a weak neck circumstance. Gaur bulls in particular contain much thicker necks than females and subadults. Here are some pictures for example...

*This image is copyright of its original author

And....

*This image is copyright of its original author

Here's a image of odin in his old age. But still impressive neck... 

*This image is copyright of its original author

The important thing we have to notice is the thick skin hanging behind neck makes a curve at the neck part. While there's no hanging skin in cape buffalos.

Which makes it looks gaurs having thinner necks in some angles. Which means the hanging skin at neck circumstance is less as compared to that of the skin hanging in the middle of fore legs. And this is significant in young and prime bulls. 

But the muscle part of the neck is totally thick and formidable. Tigers kill both buffalos and gaurs through throat bites. It doesn't mean prey has weaker neck.
Gaurs evolved to be regular prey for tigers, why they tend to have thinner necks? As the predator always target throats....

Pckts Wrote:a large Bull is NOT being taken down quickly and especially not by a throat hold, at least not by anything other than an exceptional specimen and predation. Even the last photo you show is from a very old Bull named Odin, he fought the Tiger all night long and lived to tell the tale.