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Tiger Predation - Printable Version

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RE: Tiger Predation - Shadow - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 01:29 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Maybe very old, sick or injured adult rhinos, to me it doesn't make sense for tigers, a solitary carnivore to hunt prey like that. I see the much smaller black rhinos walk up to entire lion prides and walk away. 
I have to see a footage where it happens before I believe it, I know these discussions can get heated and I don't wanna get into it, but to me it seems like fairytales. Adult bull gaur buffalo is a very tough opponent, a rhino is more than twice that size, I don't buy it. But I won't have a problem admitting I was wrong, but I have my doubts.
Well, in cases,  where is told a little bit more, there have been explanations making sense. If a rhino get stuck on mud, it is very difficult to defend. That kind of situation can end only in one way if there is hungry tiger. Same would happen if there is hungry lion, any animal has to able to move to be able to defend.

But if focusing to find research reports/documents instead of making claims, then no-one should get upset. I think, that most people here have seen many newspaper articles, but not so much information from researchers.


RE: Tiger Predation - Shadow - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 01:39 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-12-2019, 01:12 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-12-2019, 12:33 AM)Pckts Wrote:
(01-11-2019, 07:49 PM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-11-2019, 07:37 PM)johnny rex Wrote:
(01-11-2019, 01:38 PM)Shadow Wrote: I have wondered for some time. We have time to time discussions, that tigers kill rhinos. Also some articles. But where are photos (Yes, I have seen 2-3 different ones and many people say, that tigers kill regularly rhinos, even adults) showing some injuries, that how adult rhino would have been killed? No video footage naturally, but that I can understand, very little about lions too, only a few. And where are official records?

For instance one article say, that... was it 472 rhinos died by tiger predation in Kaziranga National Park between 1982-2014. But even today Kaziranga website tells, that adult rhinos are safe from tigers and calves are the ones getting killed. That sounds logical when looking at available information overall. Does anyone have any actual information, any photos, which would show something else than those 1-3 carcasses maybe telling actually nothing, that how rhino died.

I just find it odd, that in modern times, if something so amazing happens "all the time", how come that we have next to nothing what comes to photos, information confirmed by officials in some real document? How come no researchers seem to have no interest in this issue if that really happens? I am not saying, that impossible, but I am curious, that what is reality in this matter? Does anyone have something else than articles from newspapers with no names, always "officials say". Of course if tigers kill 472 calves in 32 years, that is about 14 calves annually, I guess, that rhinos can survive from that much.

But are there any really confirmed cases what comes to adult rhinos? Or maybe this should be asked from Kaziranga National Park from instance to get some name, who confirms something? If this topic has been already discussed here and some conclusion, then I missed it. But I haven´t so far found anything from researchers confirming adult rhinos killed by tigers and I would be interested to see if someone has something :)

Agreed. I doubt any big cat, male or female, will actually attempted to hunt a male adult rhino. Except maybe a weakened sick adult female.

Yes, I just read about one case where 3-4 tigers attacked a female rhino. And another, where tiger was going after a calf and then mother came to fight the tiger off. And after some weeks that mother rhino was seen in weakened condition and a little bit later dead and two tigers eating there.... And there are some terrains and weather conditions in India especially quite different compared to savannah in Africa giving advantage for tiger in some occasions.

Actually quite interesting issue to try to find out what can be said to be confirmed, what probable and what possible... I also don´t believe, that tiger has any chance against a healthy rhino in solid ground. But in some conditions it can have huge advantages and it could be explanation. For instance one case, which is claimed to be a tiger kill and there are two photos showing a rhino and a tiger in the water.
The late Monday night killing is the third instance of a rhino being killed by the roaming big cats in the last 14 months since the killing of a 35-year old male rhino in November 2011 followed by that of a young adult in December 2011. A female rhino named Himrani was attacked and injured by a tiger on December 1, 2011 but managed to survive due to the efforts of the park authorities.
https://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/killing-of-rhino-by-tiger-worries-dudhwa-wildlife-officials/article4363274.ece?fbclid=IwAR37IiblyY5NHA4mIIKYQ50GdLLiiSPWjTSNr6Hkr8QhbctYWedUis7dNPY


Lakhimpur Kheri (UP), March 4



A 20-year-old male rhino has been killed by a group of four tigers in Dudhwa Tiger Reserve here, officials said on Saturday.



“A tiger family of four comprising a male, female and two cubs attacked 20-year-old rhino ‘Sahdev’ and killed him yesterday,” Mahavir Kaujlagi, Deputy director, Dudhwa Tiger Reserve (DTR) said.

“A post-mortem examination was carried out today,” he said.


The cameras installed in the reserve revealed the group of four tigers attacking the rhino, the official added. — PTI
https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation/tigers-kill-rhino-in-dudhwa-tiger-reserve/372612.html?fbclid=IwAR1dYA_8jZZwNwRiE6hKMvjlas_etAppgouk9gUG14q_fHKHNIFuR-9u6JY






Siddharth Singh Another Female Rhino Pavitri has been killed by a Male tiger at Dudhwa on Monday at Rhino area,sadly she was one of the first five rhinos brought to Dudhwa from Pavitara Park Assam



Jitendra Singh Photography
THE HULK...
An adult male One-Horned Rhinoceros giving me a tough look.


Introduced to North Indian Terai region in 1984, these Rhinos are now flourishing in Dudhwa N.P. 
An unusual thing observed here is the deep cut on the right hand side of this beast which might be a result of a brawl with a huge tiger as I was told.
I was also told that a huge tiger has killed a Rhino in past, which I was finding hard to believe as these beasts usually do not have natural predators owing to their enormous size & impregnable tough skin. However, after verifying on internet, I have found that Tiger(s) have in past killed Rhinos on 2 occasions in Dudhwa.

Shot on Nikon D3200 & Nikkor 70-300mm F/4.5-5.6G IF-ED
Focal length : 195 mm / Speed : 1/250 s / Aperture : f/5.5 / ISO : 3200



Deep Shubhra Biswas Sudharsan Sathyam Tigers are known to attack and hunt down adult rhinos at Dudhwa... So it's not that impossible



Siddharth Singh Deep Shubhra Biswas yes it was camera trapped by Ganesh Bhatt sir .. 5 Tigers on a carcass.. always between Nov to Feb .. and it was a Male and Female working together

Siddharth Singh Ryan Lunney I have seen the stalking.. it's like a game .. once the Tiger learns to kill .. nothing can stop them .. in Dudhwa they damaged the hind legs of the Rhino and started eating it while it was alive .. Blood Pressure is a major tool the Tiger uses.. of the Rhino and the elephants
One of his shots of a Tiger stalking a Rhino Calf

*This image is copyright of its original author


Some more interesting tactics for Tigers when hunting Rhino and Elephant


Siddharth Singh
Tigers use elephant dung and Rhino Dung to subside their body odour before going in for such a kill .. rubbing themselves in the poo .. and then following the Elephant heard or Rhino for days .. waiting for the calf to get isolated.. at times just licking the calf to leave it's saliva on the calf .. which results in the mother or the heard.. avoiding the calf .. making it easier for the Tiger to bring the calf down ..
Siddharth Singh The Tigress in the shot is sitting on elephant dung .. rubbing it on herself to get rid of her body odour ?

*This image is copyright of its original author




Wounds on Rhinos said to be caused by tigers

Siddharth Singh
A single slap by a Tiger can do this to a Rhino guys

*This image is copyright of its original author


Jitendra Singh Mike Luck Yes, seems unbelievable, but watch this (the scar on his body). BTW, this was shot by me.

*This image is copyright of its original author

Jitendra Singh Mike Luck Tiger, as I was told.


This is the Rhino Killer BTW
Jai Mohan

The Gulerighat Male aka The Rhino Killer..


Dudhwa Tiger Reserve.

*This image is copyright of its original author

The Vanishing Stripes
Tigers killing full grown Rhinos is seldom heard though Rhino calfs do sometimes fall prey to tigers. However a tiger in the terai region of Dudhwa Tiger Reserve has the distinction of killing at least two full grown mature rhinos in the last three years. 'Rhino Killer' is the name that has been given to this tiger. Mahouts who patrol the Salukapur Rhino area describe the feline as a very robust male having large paws. 
In the first week of February we sighted such a male tiger on the Gulerighat road which runs along the rhino area. This tiger walked ahead of us for about 1.5 km and we a were able to photograph him. Obviously the tiger was on a routine area patrol sniffing here and there from time to time. As he walked and at one tree stump he found the smell of a female in estrus. The result was a classic Flehmen response on his part opening the mouth wide while constricting the upper lip and the nasal area. Our photographs reveal that his 3 canines ; the left upper & lower and right lower were broken while the remaining right upper seemed to be slightly chipped. Could he be the Rhino Killer? Our friend Altaf in Dudhwa was of the view that there is no doubt that he is the rhino killer as killing boar and deer doesn't lead to all canines breaking. Have a look at the photos (zoom in to the canines) and do leave your opinion



*This image is copyright of its original author




If you were to ask me if a Tiger could kill a full grown Rhino a couple of years ago I'd have said "No Way" but I now no longer believe that to be true, I believe they do kill rhinos and I trust the ones who are telling us this, I also am not surprised that the places where they are said to kill Rhinos are the same places where to the naked eye, you see the largest looking cats. If any cats would be capable of such a feat, I'd assume it's the cats in Dudhwa and Kaziranga. 

Yes I knew about these cases, still difficult to find good research and information. I have now seen some more detailed explanations about some cases. I have not thought, that impossible because lions have proved, that big cat can kill a rhino even though it is not easy. But for instance in this case when reading description of video it looks to be quite obvious, that when male lion managed finally to jump on back of this rhino, that was "finishing move". Lion of course got help with distraction from other lions, but still key to bringing down rhino seemed to be culminating to male lions performance. So if a tiger is able to get in same position it is logical to think, that one big cat is enough. 





I personally keep tigers and lions quite equal what comes to what they can do while hunting. Some tigers learn to specialize in some prey, some lions to some other. But basically if lion can do something, so can tiger and if tiger can do something, so can lion. Differences are marginal and quite meaningless what comes to their physical capabilities. So when tiger or lion prove, that something can be done, I believe automatically, that both species can do it.

But because tigers are solitary, in this issue my main interest is, that how tiger gets the position to be able to attack successfully. At least in some cases it looks like terrain is a factor giving opportunity for a tiger to make a move. Long grass, mud, swamps, tea fields etc can be quite difficult places for rhino to move as it can in solid terrain. Adult rhinos also have been in some cases quite old and I think, that in one case actual cause of death was maybe heart attack, not tigers attack in that way, that tiger would have been able to maul rhino to death.

But hopefully some good and more detailed information can be found about more cases and conditions. Interesting detail is, that many times is mentioned, that there are photos, but then those photos aren´t published. When mentioning camera trap photos for instance, it would be nice to see those too.
That Rhino was possibly shot before the lion got there btw, we've had a long discussion over that case and the reports, but either way that's just Juvenile, I have little doubt that a Lion could make a kill on an individual of that size.

But a few things to note, it seems like you want to make exemptions for the predation, "the terrain isn't favorable for the the Rhino during the attack, the Rhino was old, maybe it had a heart attack, etc" 
And while I'm sure some things need to be favorable for a Tiger to make a kill the fact is the same, the Tiger is making a kill and sometimes those Kills are on healthy adult Rhino, not all the times but still, it happens.

Skepticism is healthy but let's be honest, there is no rule in Nature, Tigers and Lions are predators, they hunt, sometimes that includes the usual suspects but other times it doesn't, sometimes unique situations occur and you have Elephant/Rhino Killing Lions and Tigers  and while video isn't always easy to come by, you have eye witness accounts or guides, FD officials, etc., all people with way more experience with real wild events than most sitting behind a computer making rules based off of what they see on Youtube.
I used to be the same way, I've started quite a few threads in my day based off skepticism, but I've learned to open my mind and realize that there are people out there that have so much more knowledge and understanding than me when it comes to wildlife that no matter how many books I read, measurements I look at, eye witness accounts I get, Continents I go to, I will never come close to knowing as much as the Guides and FD officials who literally spend every waking minute in the Jungle or Savannah, they many times are Tribesman or Locals who long before becoming guides they were strictly living day by day with these animals and were offered a chance to make a decent living using their knowledge that they have had passed down through generations.
I'm not saying to take every word as gospel, obviously doing your due diligence is important but what I've learned over my years of experience with wild animals is that they are all different, they all have very different personalities and attitudes, they can have good and bad days just like everyone else and thus they don't follow a strict rule but more so, they all live their unique life with unique experiences amongst each one.
Yes, we have many opinions about so many cases, also concerning what comes to cases with tigers and rhinos. Always someone is saying, that there was this and that and never in normal circumstances. Only tiger can do that or only lion can do this Wink That is why I am interested about research reports. We all have our own points of views to certain issues and it is just ok. I am skeptic about many things and I tell usually why or at least try to do so. Same time I am not the one usually saying never, not possible or always. Many other people are often eager to use those words.

But when some thing seems odd, of course I am curious and try to find information. That is the case now with tigers and rhinos. I have my doubts about certain things especially if there is relatively little solid evidence. That is case with some other issues too, but then again we have nowadays at least something about many other rare cases too. About tigers and rhinos should be more if looking at what people are writing and telling. If there are photos, why not sharing those? I don´t think, that those are national secrets even if from camera traps. I think, that many people are interested to know how tigers hunt adult rhinos and in which conditions they are able to do that, what it demands. At least I am :)


RE: Tiger Predation - Pantherinae - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 01:44 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-12-2019, 01:29 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Maybe very old, sick or injured adult rhinos, to me it doesn't make sense for tigers, a solitary carnivore to hunt prey like that. I see the much smaller black rhinos walk up to entire lion prides and walk away. 
I have to see a footage where it happens before I believe it, I know these discussions can get heated and I don't wanna get into it, but to me it seems like fairytales. Adult bull gaur buffalo is a very tough opponent, a rhino is more than twice that size, I don't buy it. But I won't have a problem admitting I was wrong, but I have my doubts.
Well, in cases,  where is told a little bit more, there have been explanations making sense. If a rhino get stuck on mud, it is very difficult to defend. That kind of situation can end only in one way if there is hungry tiger. Same would happen if there is hungry lion, any animal has to able to move to be able to defend.

But if focusing to find research reports/documents instead of making claims, then no-one should get upset. I think, that most people here have seen many newspaper articles, but not so much information from researchers.
Yes I don’t like to sound sceptical, but when it’s as extreame as this I want all the proof in the world before I belive it. I have seen a massive adult helthy bull gaur screaming at three tigers and, with the tigers moving out of the water and walk back into the thicket. And tigers still kill them, but that shows the respect they have for Gaurs, so I have a problem with them killing something twice that size. 

But we should be able to belive what they want. I personally need more than the proof there is. Others might not. That’s fine :)


RE: Tiger Predation - Shadow - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 01:59 AM)Pantherinae Wrote:
(01-12-2019, 01:44 AM)Shadow Wrote:
(01-12-2019, 01:29 AM)Pantherinae Wrote: Maybe very old, sick or injured adult rhinos, to me it doesn't make sense for tigers, a solitary carnivore to hunt prey like that. I see the much smaller black rhinos walk up to entire lion prides and walk away. 
I have to see a footage where it happens before I believe it, I know these discussions can get heated and I don't wanna get into it, but to me it seems like fairytales. Adult bull gaur buffalo is a very tough opponent, a rhino is more than twice that size, I don't buy it. But I won't have a problem admitting I was wrong, but I have my doubts.
Well, in cases,  where is told a little bit more, there have been explanations making sense. If a rhino get stuck on mud, it is very difficult to defend. That kind of situation can end only in one way if there is hungry tiger. Same would happen if there is hungry lion, any animal has to able to move to be able to defend.

But if focusing to find research reports/documents instead of making claims, then no-one should get upset. I think, that most people here have seen many newspaper articles, but not so much information from researchers.
Yes I don’t like to sound sceptical, but when it’s as extreame as this I want all the proof in the world before I belive it. I have seen a massive adult helthy bull gaur screaming at three tigers and, with the tigers moving out of the water and walk back into the thicket. I have a problem with them killing something twice that size. 

But we should be able to belive what they want. I personally need more than the proof there is. Others might not. That’s fine :)

So it is. I personally believe, that some adult rhinos have died with tigers, but I am not at all convinced, that tigers would be able to take out healthy adults unless there is something limiting movement of rhino. If someone believes differently, that´s fine. But who knows what can be found, maybe there is some new information just waiting to be found. I already found today two documents, which I hadn´t seen before, but truly speaking I haven´t searched so much before Grin


RE: Tiger Predation - paul cooper - 01-12-2019

Shadow, how did you find my forum? There can only be one finnish guy looking at my tiger kills elephant thread..


RE: Tiger Predation - Shadow - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 02:38 AM)paul cooper Wrote: Shadow, how did you find my forum? There can only be one finnish guy looking at my tiger kills elephant thread..

I have no idea, when I seek information I look many places if there are any hints about good sources. So if that is me, then some keywords have been leading there.


RE: Tiger Predation - brotherbear - 01-12-2019

(01-12-2019, 02:38 AM)paul cooper Wrote: Shadow, how did you find my forum? There can only be one finnish guy looking at my tiger kills elephant thread..

https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tigers-hunting-and-killing-large-pachyderms


RE: Tiger Predation - Sanju - 01-13-2019


*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Tiger Predation - Spalea - 01-14-2019


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No comment...


RE: Tiger Predation - Pckts - 01-14-2019

Gopinath Kollur
TIGRESS WITH A KILL

From the archives.








RE: Tiger Predation - Rishi - 01-16-2019

From Shriharsh Gajbhiye's post in FB group CLaW - Conservation Lenses & Wildlife.

*This image is copyright of its original author



RE: Tiger Predation - Rage2277 - 01-16-2019


*This image is copyright of its original author
 chota matka hunting gaur photo by @gmornati


RE: Tiger Predation - Shadow - 01-17-2019

Sometimes prey is slippery.... funny to watch how confused tiger is there Grin







RE: Tiger Predation - Panther - 01-17-2019

(01-12-2019, 01:44 AM)Shadow Wrote: Well, in cases,  where is told a little bit more, there have been explanations making sense. If a rhino get stuck on mud, it is very difficult to defend. That kind of situation can end only in one way if there is hungry tiger. Same would happen if there is hungry lion, any animal has to able to move to be able to defend.

But if focusing to find research reports/documents instead of making claims, then no-one should get upset. I think, that most people here have seen many newspaper articles, but not so much information from researchers.

So, whenever a tiger killed an adult rhino. It'll always be rhino stuck in mud and unable to move, but not something like tiger leaping on rhino back and mauling it to death, like what a lion done to adult hippo in a video where the giant herbivore can't defend itself?

Sure Like


RE: Tiger Predation - Panther - 01-17-2019

(01-14-2019, 10:08 PM)Pckts Wrote: Gopinath Kollur
TIGRESS WITH A KILL

From the archives.

That's an impressive kill for a tigress standard!