(07-04-2017, 05:58 AM)Garfield Wrote:

(07-04-2017, 04:59 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-04-2017, 04:52 AM)Garfield Wrote: You see that bro, nice, thats what happens when you get out more.  You run into a 570lb lion, you were impressed with his head an neck, yup, now you know a little bit about what some of us have been talkin about for awhile, u gut a see these bros in person up close.

When I "get out more?"
lol 
Let me know when you see them in the wild and we can compare. They are all impressive for captive cats, but they certainly don't compare to their wild counterparts. Any 400lb + cat is a huge animal compared to a human, but a 400+ lb wild animal with taught muscle definition is much more impressive than their softer captive relatives.

You also may want to read who's "head and neck region" I was impressed with again.
Hank and the largest male lion were just as thick as one another, Hank is a short tiger though, he'd need to have Mavericks frame to be as large as the largest lion.

Bro your pictures in the wild arent close enough, neither are these pics.  You have to get right up there, Ive seen a gazillion tigers an talked to people that have seen 100s more, I never saw one that was thick, its very rare.   Point is bro, weights in the wild and captive will be similar if both cats are fed the same, so its not as different as you think, an the reason you ain't seein some super whopper sized heavy tigers, is becuz they dont feed them as much as the wild ones get bro.  You seen any tigers with the stomach size of Whagdoh, of course not, they dont feed them whole deers.

Point is bro, now your gonna realize what I was sayin was true, I'll guarantee that 3 an half year old tiger doesnt get to 570lbs, you know why, cuz most never do, they ain't build like that, youll see bro just weight.  I know this cuz I watched a 3 year old tiger grow up, an he was big an long, but just never hit a high weight.  Think of that other place on here u guys were showin, the Black jaguar white tiger joint, remember dat, the lion Han was 580lbs or somthin, heavier than the tiger, its the way they grow bro when they eat da same amounts.  Lions in the wild can have massive drouts where they dont eat for months.  Cubs grow up starvin half the time, a lot die. Then they fight so much they mal nurished, ranger Rory Young witnessed that bro.

An that white lion Timbavatii bro, yup, oh yeah, I seen one of those guys to, he hit over 600lbs at just 4 years old.  Hes totally not over fed at all. Different breeds of lions are different, timbavatti ones super long, different than the other lions.


Also, most of the tigers ive seen werent neutered, when there not they dont look thick, i was noticin the tigers you were showin looked different, no doubt I looked it up, an they say they neuter all the male cats there including the tigers, but not Bakari the lion, huh.  Ok, so that means the tigers are packin on neutered lbs, whoa, youll see them say that here.

(07-05-2017, 10:23 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: Pckts: as far as I noticed, the overfeeding is more common in private zoos (or private breeding). I think that the main reason for this is the fact, that in public zoos there are more experienced and knowledgeable breeders.

(07-05-2017, 10:31 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:23 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: Pckts: as far as I noticed, the overfeeding is more common in private zoos (or private breeding). I think that the main reason for this is the fact, that in public zoos there are more experienced and knowledgeable breeders.

You know what else, at Lions/Tigers/Bears
They offer the option called "feed an animal" which I purchased cause it's for a good cause. But this of course attributes to the animals being overfed as well, but I understand why, they need the extra income. This sanctuary was great, they keep the animals in awesome habitats and lots of enrichment but it costs a lot of money and they need to take advantage of what ever gimmicks they can. The tiger there called Maverick is actually a former pet of the Rapper called Tyga, he was forced to give him up after he posted about it on IG or FB (he's a moron) but after he gave him up he has contributed $0 to helping this cat or taking care of it and that is the case for most animals they have there.

(07-05-2017, 10:42 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:31 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:23 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: Pckts: as far as I noticed, the overfeeding is more common in private zoos (or private breeding). I think that the main reason for this is the fact, that in public zoos there are more experienced and knowledgeable breeders.

You know what else, at Lions/Tigers/Bears
They offer the option called "feed an animal" which I purchased cause it's for a good cause. But this of course attributes to the animals being overfed as well, but I understand why, they need the extra income. This sanctuary was great, they keep the animals in awesome habitats and lots of enrichment but it costs a lot of money and they need to take advantage of what ever gimmicks they can. The tiger there called Maverick is actually a former pet of the Rapper called Tyga, he was forced to give him up after he posted about it on IG or FB (he's a moron) but after he gave him up he has contributed $0 to helping this cat or taking care of it and that is the case for most animals they have there.

The financing of ZOOS is a theme for an interesting debate, in Europe the subject is complicated by EU, resp. EU funds (some aspects of this are quite bizarre). Anyway, Im not against private zoos, sometimes they can be even better than public zoos. For example one private zoo (the one with the 250 kg white tiger) is very successfull in breeding of felids (btw now they have 5 white lions - cubs) and one of their lions was 24 yo when he died (I saw him 1 month before his death). The owner told me that this is beacuse the place is very quiet. He said that felids need just some food and silence. This is quite contrary to many ZOOs which are sometimes rather Disneylands whith crowds of noisy people.

(07-05-2017, 10:52 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:42 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:31 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:23 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: Pckts: as far as I noticed, the overfeeding is more common in private zoos (or private breeding). I think that the main reason for this is the fact, that in public zoos there are more experienced and knowledgeable breeders.

You know what else, at Lions/Tigers/Bears
They offer the option called "feed an animal" which I purchased cause it's for a good cause. But this of course attributes to the animals being overfed as well, but I understand why, they need the extra income. This sanctuary was great, they keep the animals in awesome habitats and lots of enrichment but it costs a lot of money and they need to take advantage of what ever gimmicks they can. The tiger there called Maverick is actually a former pet of the Rapper called Tyga, he was forced to give him up after he posted about it on IG or FB (he's a moron) but after he gave him up he has contributed $0 to helping this cat or taking care of it and that is the case for most animals they have there.

The financing of ZOOS is a theme for an interesting debate, in Europe the subject is complicated by EU, resp. EU funds (some aspects of this are quite bizarre). Anyway, Im not against private zoos, sometimes they can be even better than public zoos. For example one private zoo (the one with the 250 kg white tiger) is very successfull in breeding of felids (btw now they have 5 white lions - cubs) and one of their lions was 24 yo when he died (I saw him 1 month before his death). The owner told me that this is beacuse the place is very quiet. He said that felids need just some food and silence. This is quite contrary to many ZOOs which are sometimes rather Disneylands whith crowds of noisy people.

LTB is actually the GFAS and ASA accredited which is the highest accreditation a sanctuary can have but you bring up an interesting debate.
When I was talking to the keeper who worked with bauman, we discussed this. He said that it was the animal rights investigations that sometimes would do more harm than good. At least when it came to circuses, he said the animals where usually very well taken care of but once they were forced to get rid of them, the animals would end up in a lot of poorly run "sanctuaries" and he wondered if it was better for the animals to just live their lives out in the circus. Either way we both agreed that no animal belonged in the circus or behind bars and we both think that this is the end of an era and you will not see these animals in captivity in the next 50 years.

(07-05-2017, 11:05 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:52 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:42 PM)Amnon242 Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:31 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:23 PM)Amnon242 Wrote: Pckts: as far as I noticed, the overfeeding is more common in private zoos (or private breeding). I think that the main reason for this is the fact, that in public zoos there are more experienced and knowledgeable breeders.

You know what else, at Lions/Tigers/Bears
They offer the option called "feed an animal" which I purchased cause it's for a good cause. But this of course attributes to the animals being overfed as well, but I understand why, they need the extra income. This sanctuary was great, they keep the animals in awesome habitats and lots of enrichment but it costs a lot of money and they need to take advantage of what ever gimmicks they can. The tiger there called Maverick is actually a former pet of the Rapper called Tyga, he was forced to give him up after he posted about it on IG or FB (he's a moron) but after he gave him up he has contributed $0 to helping this cat or taking care of it and that is the case for most animals they have there.

The financing of ZOOS is a theme for an interesting debate, in Europe the subject is complicated by EU, resp. EU funds (some aspects of this are quite bizarre). Anyway, Im not against private zoos, sometimes they can be even better than public zoos. For example one private zoo (the one with the 250 kg white tiger) is very successfull in breeding of felids (btw now they have 5 white lions - cubs) and one of their lions was 24 yo when he died (I saw him 1 month before his death). The owner told me that this is beacuse the place is very quiet. He said that felids need just some food and silence. This is quite contrary to many ZOOs which are sometimes rather Disneylands whith crowds of noisy people.

LTB is actually the GFAS and ASA accredited which is the highest accreditation a sanctuary can have but you bring up an interesting debate.
When I was talking to the keeper who worked with bauman, we discussed this. He said that it was the animal rights investigations that sometimes would do more harm than good. At least when it came to circuses, he said the animals where usually very well taken care of but once they were forced to get rid of them, the animals would end up in a lot of poorly run "sanctuaries" and he wondered if it was better for the animals to just live their lives out in the circus. Either way we both agreed that no animal belonged in the circus or behind bars and we both think that this is the end of an era and you will not see these animals in captivity in the next 50 years.

Id like to make these points:

1. circus animals are mostly in much better mental and physical condition than animals from zoos.
2. there are quite big enclosures in (modern) zoos these days...but it is for good feeling of visitors (that the animals dont suffer), captive animals usually dont need so much space - they need primarily different things
3. the same goes for iron bars - animals dont care about them, glass is not better (its for visitors who dont like to see zoo as an detention center and for photographers).
4. animals dont have the same sense for aesthetics as humans...the enclosures are built primarily to please the visitors

(07-05-2017, 11:28 PM)Garfield Wrote:

(07-05-2017, 10:05 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-04-2017, 05:58 AM)Garfield Wrote:

(07-04-2017, 04:59 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(07-04-2017, 04:52 AM)Garfield Wrote: You see that bro, nice, thats what happens when you get out more.  You run into a 570lb lion, you were impressed with his head an neck, yup, now you know a little bit about what some of us have been talkin about for awhile, u gut a see these bros in person up close.

When I "get out more?"
lol 
Let me know when you see them in the wild and we can compare. They are all impressive for captive cats, but they certainly don't compare to their wild counterparts. Any 400lb + cat is a huge animal compared to a human, but a 400+ lb wild animal with taught muscle definition is much more impressive than their softer captive relatives.

You also may want to read who's "head and neck region" I was impressed with again.
Hank and the largest male lion were just as thick as one another, Hank is a short tiger though, he'd need to have Mavericks frame to be as large as the largest lion.

Bro your pictures in the wild arent close enough, neither are these pics.  You have to get right up there, Ive seen a gazillion tigers an talked to people that have seen 100s more, I never saw one that was thick, its very rare.   Point is bro, weights in the wild and captive will be similar if both cats are fed the same, so its not as different as you think, an the reason you ain't seein some super whopper sized heavy tigers, is becuz they dont feed them as much as the wild ones get bro.  You seen any tigers with the stomach size of Whagdoh, of course not, they dont feed them whole deers.

Point is bro, now your gonna realize what I was sayin was true, I'll guarantee that 3 an half year old tiger doesnt get to 570lbs, you know why, cuz most never do, they ain't build like that, youll see bro just weight.  I know this cuz I watched a 3 year old tiger grow up, an he was big an long, but just never hit a high weight.  Think of that other place on here u guys were showin, the Black jaguar white tiger joint, remember dat, the lion Han was 580lbs or somthin, heavier than the tiger, its the way they grow bro when they eat da same amounts.  Lions in the wild can have massive drouts where they dont eat for months.  Cubs grow up starvin half the time, a lot die. Then they fight so much they mal nurished, ranger Rory Young witnessed that bro.

An that white lion Timbavatii bro, yup, oh yeah, I seen one of those guys to, he hit over 600lbs at just 4 years old.  Hes totally not over fed at all. Different breeds of lions are different, timbavatti ones super long, different than the other lions.


Also, most of the tigers ive seen werent neutered, when there not they dont look thick, i was noticin the tigers you were showin looked different, no doubt I looked it up, an they say they neuter all the male cats there including the tigers, but not Bakari the lion, huh.  Ok, so that means the tigers are packin on neutered lbs, whoa, youll see them say that here.

I was with in 5' of the lions in the serengeti and 10' of the tigers in Kanha and Choti Tara, any closer and I'd have been riding them. In the LTB zoo I was feeding the male and female lion with a stick no more than 3 feet, I was with in 8ft of hank and maverick and less than 5 feet of the Timbavati male and females.
At the SD wild animal park I got behind the scenes access to the Sumatran Tigers, with in feet of them and the lions, at the mirage park the male lion brothers were with in 10' at most and the male white tiger, both times was with in 5' , same as the female and the two cubs. Any one who's been there can attest to that. The LA zoo is a little further away from the tigers and lions, both around 20'. So saying that "you need to get right up there" holds no weight.

I don't know how to respond to the 2nd part of the first paragraph, there isn't a real point there.

Now on to the next part, you have no idea how much weight a cat will put on after it's 3.5, that is still very young for a cat and they are still growing, in the wild or in captivity, the older cats always weigh more than the younger ones until their body starts to deteriorate.

Han was 230kg, the largest Lion weighed there, Alcyone is over 8 months younger than Han, not even 3 yet and weighs 200kg and growing, Alcyone is another very thick tiger btw, easily comparable to the largest lions there and he's not one of the 5 largest tigers there either, but overall both cats are very comparable at BJWT, but they are also over fed as well.


No cat goes for "months with out eating"
They are hyper carnivores, they need to eat meat regularly are they will quickly lose weight and starve to death. You are also mistaken on what big cats actually go through, when it's the hottest months the cats have less water sources than during the rainy season, this is true but being in Africa and India during the hotter months I can say with out a doubt, there is no lack of water or prey for either place (Tarangire, Ngorongoro Crater, Serengeit, Tadoba, Pench, Kanha,), I'm sure the cats in the desert must search harder to find cover and water but they still wouldn't survive there with out prey and water so that is a non issue.


Timbavati-
Would you care to back up claims of lions from Timbavati being different from other reserves?

You know why they didn't neuter the Lions?
Because they didn't want them to lose their mane. But I see this argument a lot from a few people, you guys think a Tiger or Lion is Thicker or heavier when neutered and this is certainly not true. When a cat is neutered they stop producing Testosterone, this doesn't create a denser cat, it does the opposite. Testosterone is vital for a cats muscle and bone development and enhances their libido. Which means that cats become lazy and thus their less active and can become fat quickly if their diet isn't adjusted properly. But in terms of body size, a cat that is producing Testosterone will always be more powerful than a cat who isn't, their body will be stronger, more muscle and much more active. So the fact that the two tigers I saw were that thick and muscular while being neutered is a testament to them, they'd be far better shape if not. 

Last is the feeding regiment:
At LTB they feed their cats different amounts depending on the season. During the summer months, the lions get only 7lbs of meat a day, during the winter months the largest male can get up to 20lbs of meat a day. That has to do with activity, during the summer it's hot, the cats are lazy and require less food, during the winter they are much more active, they feel good and move around lots. Also, extra mass helps maintain body heat, that is why in the Wild you'll see cats during the summer be much more lean compared to their winter months but never will you see them oversized and overweight compared to their captive counterparts. Too much weight means you're too slow, hunting is hard and if you want to keep up with the others you need to be in shape.

Hey bro, your not special cuz you fed a lion with a stick, they do that in most of these places, its a gimick.  I have that on film a big lion eating from a stick, I didnt care to do it cuz i was to busy filmin it, the lion was probaly the tallest bigcat i had seen at the shoulder, limbs weret super thick but they were very long, big chest, not over fed, easily over 500lbs.  You claim to be close to the cats but your photos dont look so hot, my videos you can really see the cats, I also seen a big massive lion inches through glass at this cool place, you cant get any closer than that.

Everyone knows that the neutered bros pack on the pounds, its like if um hittin the barbecue to much, my whole body gets heavier and heavier, trust me bro, fat adds up, it increases your weight.  The biggest captive neutered cats have the ability to gain weight like nothing else, an it dont just come off, it like a guy with low matabalism over 50, it just keep collecting.  IF you have high testorerone an are in shape you can eat more an burn it off.  Eatin helps with the mass to in measurements, you see that bro Thor, Chirs Hemsworth, he had to stuff himself silly an lift to get the right super hero physique an bulk, if he didnt eat so much calories he wouldnt of looked that bulky and strong, calories an food help bro.  Tigers can pack on the pounds over there whole body, even in the wild, so it increases the diameter an the thickness in measurements, just like with Thor. If he didnt eat so much he wouldnt render as big a biceps or shoulders.  You gut eat bigleauge.  Even that chick Wonder Women, Gal Gadot, she had to stuff herself so much she said she got sick of eating, an still she ain't nothin compared to Lynda Carter who is da bomb.  So like yeah, tigers have more body fat, lion cant afford that with hot planes in Africa an no water, thats why tigers have to cool their bodies down in pools of water all day in India, but lions dont.

An no kiddin they dont neuter the lion cuz they dont want to lose the manes, thats what I said bro, an thats what it says in the video, um the one that posted it, bro dont repeat what I already first told you, bad habit.  Look, you seen some wild cats ok, but your pictures dont show you were that close, an where is your videos, if i went to India id be getting some sweet footage bro, it would be HD too, like all my vids are. I hadnt seen any footage from you.
An the Timbavatti lions, I talked to this bro on youtube who is a lion guy, an he was tellin me those breeds are the biggest, he said some top trainer told him that.  I forgot who it was, id have to go back an ask him, this bro has some sweet videos though.

(07-06-2017, 12:32 AM)Rishi Wrote: @Pckts @Amnon242 @sanjay Ok i had a PM chat with him & after this neutered rantings, at this point i'm pretty sure this is a fake profile by @Haymaker & thus that weird unnatural lingo as @stoja9 pointed out.

I'd request you guys to not further feed the troll. Those discussions weren't productive...