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+--- Thread: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity (/topic-zoos-circuses-safaris-a-gallery-of-captivity)
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RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 09-13-2016
same barbary
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - st147zar - 09-13-2016
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge tiger.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Apollo - 09-13-2016
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Blackleopard - 09-14-2016
Here is a pretty cool tiger I liked named Shirkahn. Average all around build for a tiger, but well proportioned, smallish wide rounded head, but one of the most handsome faces, dark defined black stripes, which can accentuate the form, thick fur even in June. Taking me some time to compress these files but I'll try to get more pics up when I can.
[attachment=587]
[attachment=585]
[attachment=588]
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - GrizzlyClaws - 09-14-2016
@
Good work, and last reminder, no more lion vs tiger theme. We are not trigger-happy, but this is your final chance. So just prove yourself that you are a good poster.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Blackleopard - 09-14-2016
Here was one of the most powerful, aggressive, tigers I had ever seen, he did not look tame, but looked ready to attack something in his cage. As he walked by me, his cold green yellow eyes stared right through you. I'll try to get some more pics up of him, he had some of the strongest forearms Ive seen. For sure its tigers like this, that prove they have the strongest arms of the bigcat world, at the same time, the lion undoubtedly from what Ive seen has the strongest shoulders, body and frame. I would say the lion would be over all stronger for its size, but such a tiger as I'm showing here, has such strong arms, that that alone mixed with its speed and hyper aggression would present a very deadly animal. I was pretty amazed by this tiger, it was an unusually violent tiger.
[attachment=590]
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Apollo - 09-14-2016
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 09-15-2016
Blackleppard "I would say the lion would be over all stronger for its size" OMG - who is stronger, tiger or lion - again? I think you have been politely asked to refrain from posting childish nonsense like this. Ok its your opinion. But there is quite a lot of posters who would disagree with you. And at least some of these posters (if not all) are much more knowledgeable than you. You can post your opinion (or rather express your feeling, because what you wrote is not opinion at all, its not backed by anything and it lacks even logic), but it has no relevance. Because you are new in this forum, you have shown no knowledge so far, you have no reputatation (so far...you have to earn your reputation by hard work for this forum, intelligent posts and good information). By posts like this you can perhaps satisfy your internal obsession with the topic, but it has no real impact at all.
But the main point is that this thread is not meant for the tiger vs lion discussion (as you have been repeatedly told by the mods). I think you should to think about yourself, because you obviously suffer from some strange compulsion (and your apparent immaurity is certainly also a factor) forcing you to start this TvL thing over and over again (even though you have been asked not to do so).
I think that your behaviour harms the image of this forum, whis is meant to be a place for mature and intelligent people. Obsessive behaviour of immature posters annoys others. Think about it.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 09-15-2016
I know this family personally. They have raised also tigers and jaguars. According to their opinion, jaguars are the "worst", while lions are like dogs - relatively easy to treat.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 09-15-2016
I had the opportunity to play (or fight) with this amur tiger cub (not my video - its not me). I realised that tigers are sly in comparison with cats or dogs
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 09-15-2016
Amur. 2yo, 180 kg
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Blackleopard - 09-15-2016
(09-15-2016, 01:14 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: I know this family personally. They have raised also tigers and jaguars. According to their opinion, jaguars are the "worst", while lions are like dogs - relatively easy to treat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB90teqIWSE
You just have to see a lot of different cats from different places, and talk to different experts from those places as well as trainers, that is if the trainers will tell you anything.
I was told a lot of stuff from some top people, so its not really my opinion that the lion is stronger over all for its size. People who have worked with these cats for decades in large sanctuaries have told me that. I was actually told by one expert that the lion's muscular structure is twice as strong as the tigers, this guy had a lot of experience and owned one of the largest sanctuaries. I was also told a similar thing from several other completely different places, even by Doctors and Vets. Every cat is an individual though, there can be small tigers, small lions, not every tiger is big, but you do see patterns develop when you see enough cats and talk to enough experts. Lions and tigers have different body structures for Bigcats, they're pretty different mentally and physically.
I'm of the opinion though, if a tiger can have very strong forearms, and arms, and the rest of it isn't to unusually narrow, I think it could offset some of that additional strength the lion has at times in the body, and in the end they may come out even. That shouldn't be bias, I think its pretty fair.
People also must factor in the lion's mane, because you again have to talk to people that actually have felt it and have tamed lions to the point where they can actually get in the cage with them at adult hood. I have seen quite a few manes, where the hair is very coarse and bushy, not the long thin kind you sometimes see. In talking to some experts on this, they said the mane is so thick on some, that you can't even get your hand through it unless you really reach down and sort of claw your way through. In describing it, they said its as coarse as a horses tail and its very thick like actual wool. It also can become, intertwined and matted over each other, creating thick tangled areas. This undoubtedly would provide real defense.
This particular lion in the Midwest near a cornfield, had such a mane, several other there did as well. He was decent size, lower limbs all I could see, not that thick, but its body was very sturdy and has almost the impression of being inflated like a barrel.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Polar - 09-15-2016
(09-15-2016, 06:49 AM)Blackleopard Wrote:(09-15-2016, 01:14 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: I know this family personally. They have raised also tigers and jaguars. According to their opinion, jaguars are the "worst", while lions are like dogs - relatively easy to treat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DB90teqIWSE
You just have to see a lot of different cats from different places, and talk to different experts from those places as well as trainers, that is if the trainers will tell you anything.
I was told a lot of stuff from some top people, so its not really my opinion that the lion is stronger over all for its size. People who have worked with these cats for decades in large sanctuaries have told me that. I was actually told by one expert that the lion's muscular structure is twice as strong as the tigers, this guy had a lot of experience and owned one of the largest sanctuaries. I was also told a similar thing from several other completely different places, even by Doctors and Vets. Every cat is an individual though, there can be small tigers, small lions, not every tiger is big, but you do see patterns develop when you see enough cats and talk to enough experts. Lions and tigers have different body structures for Bigcats, they're pretty different mentally and physically.
I'm of the opinion though, if a tiger can have very strong forearms, and arms, and the rest of it isn't to unusually narrow, I think it could offset some of that additional strength the lion has at times in the body, and in the end they may come out even. That shouldn't be bias, I think its pretty fair.
People also must factor in the lion's mane, because you again have to talk to people that actually have felt it and have tamed lions to the point where they can actually get in the cage with them at adult hood. I have seen quite a few manes, where the hair is very coarse and bushy, not the long thin kind you sometimes see. In talking to some experts on this, they said the mane is so thick on some, that you can't even get your hand through it unless you really reach down and sort of claw your way through. In describing it, they said its as coarse as a horses tail and its very thick like actual wool. It also can become, intertwined and matted over each other, creating thick tangled areas. This undoubtedly would provide real defense.
This particular lion in the Midwest near a cornfield, had such a mane, several other there did as well. He was decent size, lower limbs all I could see, not that thick, but its body was very sturdy and has almost the impression of being inflated like a barrel.
"You just have to see a lot of different cats from different places, and talk to different experts from those places as well as trainers, that is if the trainers will tell you anything."
Depends on the experts' individual opinions. No matter how many trainers/"experts" you talk to, the topic will never be resolved. It is a constant battle, and you should stop bringing the L vs T topic up.
"People who have worked with these cats for decades in large sanctuaries have told me that. I was actually told by one expert that the lion's muscular structure is twice as strong as the tigers..."
Any proof for that claim? Two felids of similar backgrounds should barely have any differences within muscle composition. This is another reason why most "trainers" or "experts" are unreliable in regards to L vs T topic.
Now, lion and primate? Yes, the lion might be more than twice as strong as a gorilla its size when it comes to everyday motions. I have a few documents on this topic, though I barely have time to post the documents.
"Lions and tigers have different body structures for Bigcats, they're pretty different mentally and physically."
This is the only correct section of your post.
"I'm of the opinion though, if a tiger can have very strong forearms, and arms, and the rest of it isn't to unusually narrow, I think it could offset some of that additional strength the lion has at times in the body, and in the end they may come out even. That shouldn't be bias, I think its pretty fair."
Tigers tend to have more forearm/bicep strength, and lions tend to have more tricep/shoulder strength, assuming similar weights, of course. Simple as that.
"People also must factor in the lion's mane, because you again have to talk to people that actually have felt it and have tamed lions to the point where they can actually get in the cage with them at adult hood. I have seen quite a few manes, where the hair is very coarse and bushy, not the long thin kind you sometimes see. In talking to some experts on this, they said the mane is so thick on some, that you can't even get your hand through it unless you really reach down and sort of claw your way through. In describing it, they said its as coarse as a horses tail and its very thick like actual wool. It also can become, intertwined and matted over each other, creating thick tangled areas. This undoubtedly would provide real defense."
The mane will make a good difference towards claws, but not the monster-sized canines of even a smaller tiger.
As for the rest of your post, I like the photographs you post. You are resembling some of the other posters in good-quality visual content, yet you are lacking in the conversational aspect of WildFact considering your repeat of the Lion vs Tiger topic.
Please post your good content and keep any "versus" topics out.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Blackleopard - 09-15-2016
Really great trainer Juan Carlos, talked to this guy for awhile, learned a lot of interesting information. He generally works tigers and lions, and often all tigers, but hes worked all the cats at some point, like these jaguars. He was one of the trainers that stated the lion and tigers are completely different. He basically said, " lion and tiger totally different, character, anatomy, intelligence, behavior."
I wont get into everything he said on here, unless someone wants to know, but hes gut a lot of experience, and was picked to assist and perform with some of the top trainers.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Interesting mix you don't usually see, jaguars and a mountain lion.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris... A Gallery of Captivity - Apollo - 09-15-2016
@Blackleopard
Cut all your crap and post only pics.
To answer your imaginary crap.
Yes tigers do have bigger limb girths than lions (forelimb, hindlimb)
Tigers do have higher upperarm to forearm girth ratio than lions. Meaning at equal forearm girth the tigers will still have larger upperarm girth.
Lions shoulders appear more pronounced than tigers due to the mane, upright posture, shorter hindlimbs in comparison to forelimbs and its straight back.
Regarding lions having stronger body, I dont no where you cooked that up. On average and at maximums tigers have longer body with bigger chest girth, meaning tigers have bigger bodies.
Regarding the muscle composition of these great cats, there arent any studies done except for one which is highly unreliable.
The study is "Fibertype and metabolic characteristics of lion (Panthera leo), caracal (Caracal caracal) and human skeletal muscle".
In that study they used two 2-3 year old female lion cubs (sub-adults). No male lions were used and no adult lions were used. Tigers used is unknown (some said there was only one small tiger cub was used, not sure though). It has very limited samples (2 cubs) and cannot be considered reliable.
Muscle composition should play a role in stamina, but unfortunately there is not much of a difference between these two felids when it comes to stamina.
Here is what Packer said
*This image is copyright of its original author
Now regarding mane.
Tigers have known to attack brown bears, russian boars, sloth bears, asiatic black bears etc all these animals have similar thick and long fur with an added protection of a thick fat layer.
Here is what Packer said
*This image is copyright of its original author
I can disprove and debate on each and every fanatical claims you've made. But its a waste of time.
Follow the forum rules.
If you dont want to be banned, stick to posting your pics and dont bring in any lion vs tiger theme stuff.
If I see one more of your crap like lions have bigger nuts than tigers, lions have stronger whiskers than tigers etc you're done at wildfact.