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+--- Thread: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity (/topic-zoos-circuses-safaris-a-gallery-of-captivity)
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RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Amnon242 - 09-26-2020
(09-26-2020, 04:08 AM)Pckts Wrote:(09-26-2020, 03:47 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: BTW In my life I have seen perhaps 50 amur tigers and similar number of lions. I would say that average captive amur males are 210 - 220 kg. African lions are 180 - 190 Kg on average (with surprisingly big differencies), while asiatic are somewhat smaller, around 170 kg (but on the other hand very similar to each other when it comes to size and appearance).
Bengal tigers: I have seen only 4 adult males. One was "normal" and Im not sure how pure he was. He was not big, probably under 180 kg, but Id say he was not fully adult. The others were white, Paris was 220 kg, but the other two were substantially larger. So...
This is my personal estimate...take it or leave it...
You're lucky to have seen so many Amur's, they're much harder to come by here in the states. I've seen tons of North American Bengals and Africans in Captivity but never an Amur or Asiatic Lion.
Im from Czechia and as far as I know there is about 100 tigers there, vast majority of them are amurs and they are mostly in private ownership. BTW it seems that tigers in private ownership tend to be bigger than those in normal zoos. I would say that this is because the owners are giving them higher amout of food, sometimes overfeeding them – those tigers are overweight, but on the other hand it obviously can affect the growth (height and lenght and muscle mass). Second reason is that tigers in private ownership are living in much more quiet environment (less stress in comparison to normal zoos) and it is not impossible that this can contribute to the growth (at least according to one private breeder – I asked him why are his tigers so huge). And third reason is that in normal zoos the tigers are under international breeding programme. And this programme is focused primarily on genetic diversity, not growth. But in private ownership the breeders might have tendency to breed the biggest animals (but this is a double-edged sword, because there is a risk of inbreeding which generally has a negative effect on the growth).
Of course the private breeders have also tendencies to overestimate the size of their animals. And sometimes you may come across information about 300+ kg tiger, but this is because someone simply made a mistake. For expamle one vet talked about a tiger which belonged to one „celebrity“ and he said that the tiger was 380 kg – in the context that he was overweight and needed reduction. I saw that tiger in persona and he was very similar to that 290 kg tiger above. So I would say that the tiger was 280 kg (and overweight) and the vet simply made a mistake when talking about his weight. I do not deny that these tigers are huge (tall and long, especially their lenght is remarkable), but their healthy weight would be like 250 – 260 kg. Generally I would say that non-obese captive amurs are within the range of 170 – 270 kg. 270+ kg non-obese tigers are not impossible, but those are freak specimen.
When it comes to lions, in Czechia there is quite a lot of asiatic and barbary. One of the reasons is that the breeding of these subspecies is supported by EU funds. However with tigers it is not that different. There are too many amur tigers in Czech (and Europen) zoos, so the zoos are going to focus rather on malayan and sumatran tigers. For example that zoo which has Igor is going to breed sumatran tigers instead of amurs. BTW breeders told me that Igor has 6 cubs, which is not that good, since there is no room for amur tigers and genetic profile of Igor is too widespread in Europe – the international breeding coordinator (in London) would welcome rather the reproduction of other amurs.
Lions in private ownership are also quite common in Czechia, but not that much as tigers. I dont know why but perhaps one of the reasons is that the tigers are solitary and therefore more suitable to serve as „pets“ in your garden. Lions need company and lone lion would suffer…
BTW couple of months ago I promised you to translate some czech literature about tigers, lions, fights and so on…I did not forget, but I had to deal with different things. „Fortunately“ I am covid positive now so at least I have time to translate it…but on the other hand I dont have the access to those books, because my beloved wife and kids locked me into my prepper/post-apocalyptic/survival bunker and I am ashamed to tell them to bring me those books
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RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Rishi - 09-27-2020
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Sachin, a 7-year-old Asian lion male, is now at Montpellier Zoo. He has arrived from the Debrecen Zoo (Hungary) as part of the European lion conservation and breeding programme for Asian lions. Born at Budapest Zoo in 2013 he was at Debrecen (with two of his brothers) since 2015. At Montpellier, Sachin will form a new breeding group with the 3 resident females.
We will find this lions Bloodline to be the very intriguing... There at coastal parts of southern France they've got Mediterranean climate & the lionesses look like ones at Indian zoos.
We already know if an Asiatic lion had grown up in cold climate, then its mane doesn't recede later on at warm climate (with Ziv of Jerusalem) & vice versa (with Jamvan of Prague). It'll be most interesting to see now how it passes on through generations, ie, whether his sons will grow mane like him or their cousins back home.
@Spalea @Shadow @Lycaon @GuateGojira @peter
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Balam - 09-27-2020
Napo, Chester Zoo
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By Michael Smith
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Lycaon - 09-27-2020
@Rishi
Very interesting find and info , I think his sons will develop large manes plus more belly hair . Another note is that the male asiatic lion in Tehran zoo has kept his mane and belly hair despite tehran being hot .
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Rishi - 09-27-2020
(09-27-2020, 06:56 PM)Lycaon Wrote: Tehran zoo has kept his mane and belly hair despite tehran being hot .
Heh heh heh heh heh heh...
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RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Lycaon - 09-27-2020
@Rishi
Well in the summer tehran or at least warm.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Rishi - 09-27-2020
(09-27-2020, 08:11 PM)Lycaon Wrote: @Rishi
Well in the summer tehran or at least warm.
Eh.. That goes for most of Europe.
I actually have a theory why Asiatic lions & Caspian Tiger oth have the most prominent belly folds... You see Central Asia is kinda extreme. Most of the regions have either extremely hot semi-arid climate, or directly adjoining cool-summer-cold-winter mountain ranges.
Winter satellite image;
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That means a tiger/lion may need to bulk up with subcutaneous fat all its life. While it's progeny might move away a few kilometres & spend its life in hot region never needing to... But its children in turn might have to do so again.
That would explain this adaptation where they have much larger loose skins, that hands below as flap, which may or may not fill up with fat as per life requirements. Asian lions look right at home in snow.
@Pckys @peter @parvez @Amnon242 Opinions?
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Balam - 09-28-2020
Mowgli, Edinburgh zoo
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By Safi Kok
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - scilover - 09-29-2020
(09-27-2020, 06:53 PM)Balam Wrote: Napo
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By Michael Smith
a jaguar! they are beautiful and huge.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Hello - 09-29-2020
East African Lion and Persian lioness
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RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Rage2277 - 09-29-2020
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Balam - 10-01-2020
Nero and Kira, The Big Cat Sanctuary UK
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By Cam Whitnall
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Sammyfrosh - 10-05-2020
While most people here might be impressed by photos of lions and tigers well I am not but Instead am impressed by the leopard.
This leopard below aren't zoo specimens but I haven't seen leopards here when other cats have been posted so I decided to post some pictures of the Leopards here.
The first black Leopard is from a zoo tho. He was called Zeus and weighted 97kg.
The two last female leopardsbare also zoo specimens too.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Dark Jaguar - 10-05-2020
Xavante.
RE: Zoos, Circuses, Safaris: A Gallery of Captivity - Sammyfrosh - 10-06-2020
A black Leopard (the true panther) from a particular zoo.