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+--- Thread: Massive Head, Neck & Muscles (/topic-massive-head-neck-muscles)
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Same lion, photo from september 2017 (so over 4.5 yo). His arms are now covered by mane
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
ok, one more white tiger, I dont know exact age, 11yo or more...
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Asiatic, I dont know exact age. Btw this lion is from Zoo Prague, but he came directly from Gujaraat (Im not sure, but maybe the only real pure asiatic outside India...or at least in Europe).
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Same lion. I dont know his weight, but his predecessor (also asiatic...but probably not pure) was 178 kg. This one is definitely smaller
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
There is nothing more to say. When it comes to muscularity of arms, tigers are rivalled only by jaguars (relatively)...whis is quite logical. Just my opinion
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
this lion and his mate killed old white tigress...his arms are not very visible...but...
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Someone could say that I only selected the photos where the lions have weak arms. But I do not think I have pictures of lions on which their strong arms would be well visible. I would probably find my other photos of lions with exposed arms, but I think they would look similar
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Stealthcat - 01-21-2018
(01-21-2018, 04:23 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Someone could say that I only selected the photos where the lions have weak arms. But I do not think I have pictures of lions on which their strong arms would be well visible. I would probably find my other photos of lions with exposed arms, but I think they would look similar
If you scrunch the arm it always looks bigger. I'm not disagreeing tigers have the stronger arms, I actually have a few photos, but captive lions generally have the mane covering most of the arm and all over shoulder, it is the upper parts of their frame where the mane covers that I believe they are stronger, the lower limbs appear to be for endurance, some triceps I think can tie tigers, but on the whole the tiger needs the stronger tricep to flex the forearm. The lion needs the stronger back muscles and shoulders trapezius to move the humerus, swing the arm.
Here is an Asiatic lion, I think its sort of semi wild captive not sure, notice the shoulder mass, the muscles over it are more developed, Supraspinatus, omotransversarius, which you can make out on many lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - paul cooper - 01-21-2018
(01-21-2018, 06:25 AM)Stealthcat Wrote:(01-21-2018, 04:23 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Someone could say that I only selected the photos where the lions have weak arms. But I do not think I have pictures of lions on which their strong arms would be well visible. I would probably find my other photos of lions with exposed arms, but I think they would look similar
If you scrunch the arm it always looks bigger. I'm not disagreeing tigers have the stronger arms, I actually have a few photos, but captive lions generally have the mane covering most of the arm and all over shoulder, it is the upper parts of their frame where the mane covers that I believe they are stronger, the lower limbs appear to be for endurance, some triceps I think can tie tigers, but on the whole the tiger needs the stronger tricep to flex the forearm. The lion needs the stronger back muscles and shoulders trapezius to move the humerus, swing the arm.
Here is an Asiatic lion, I think its sort of semi wild captive not sure, notice the shoulder mass, the muscles over it are more developed, Supraspinatus, omotransversarius, which you can make out on many lions.
*This image is copyright of its original author
LOL, why, what is the reason for you to "believe" the that upper for the lion is "stronger"? No reason whatsoever, just retardedness. In your picture the lion isnt too big on the shoulder, its the scapula sticking out, with meat on it, no different from tigers. Most of it is illusions. Why would the lion need to swing the arm? It doesnt make any sense what you are saying, LOL.
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Rishi - 01-21-2018
(01-21-2018, 03:57 AM)Amnon242 Wrote: Same lion. I dont know his weight, but his predecessor (also asiatic...but probably not pure) was 178 kg. This one is definitely smaller
It's Jamvan. Looks like he's doing well, grew a decent mane... But he's first generation & his sons will grow belly mane.
When was this photo taken?
India has exported asiatic lions to almost 50 foreign zoos since Independence. All of them are pure-bred. The older lion in Praha zoo was also pure...
PS: There is a inter-zoo Asiatic lion breeding program going on in Europe with temporary exchange of lions. Has Prague zoo taken part in it?
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Photos are misleading. For example, in this photo this lion may look like a quite muscular animal, but we know from previous pictures that he has no muscles at all, his arms are bony. Similar to the poor quality photos from Stealthcat (Garfield, Dalen Cat etc). Are those arms really muscular or just bony? Hard to tell, but Im afraid that the arrms of that (presumably young) lion at *114 are rather bony than muscular.
However, all the photos I've given here are mine (with one exception). I have personally seen all these animals. If you go through the internet, you will surely find pictures of really muscular lions (but in my opinion, these are exceptions, typical lion does not look like that).
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Look at Igor. He is a 5 year old amur that weighed 220 kg at that time (today at the age of seven he has 240 kg). He's very slender, he's the most lean tiger I've ever seen. But even this slender tiger still has quite muscular arms.
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Rishi: exactly, its Jamvan. I made the photo in 2017. These are his females (also from Gujaraat). By the way, thank you for the refinement, I did not know. But I still think that there are not many pure Asian lions outside India. For the previous lion (Paris), I'm really not sure whether it was purely Asian, but I say only fragments of what I remember, I can be mistaken. I do not know much about Zoo Prague's breeding programs, but they are probably involved in various internationally coordinated programs.
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Not my photo, but I have seen this amur in persona. Bear like creature
RE: Impressive neck and shoulders on felines - Amnon242 - 01-21-2018
Yes, he is from Zoo Ostrava (Czech Republic). BTW I think that Jamvan and his females are brother and sisters (?)...
Indian lions have been kept in the zoo in Ostrava since 2006 when a young male (* 2003) was brought from the zoo in Paignton. During the autumn of 2006, a female (* 2003) from the Eskilstuna Zoo in Sweden joined. Lion couple together lived harmoniously for several years, unfortunately failed to multiply it. In a special examination carried out by the staff of the Berlin Institute (IZW) in 2010, it was found that a female has unoperable ovarian cysts that prevent it from being trapped. That is why, at the recommendation of the EEP retention coordinator for Indian lions in 2011, we brought a new young lion (* 2007) from Rotterdam.
However, even youngsters have not been able to breed youngsters. In 2013, the animals were examined by colleagues from IZW and the results were positive in this case - both animals are well and fruitful. The female has since birthed twice (for the first time on 9 March 2015, the second time on 8 January 2016). Each time it was one female (female), lively and developed, which the mother had cleansed, but she did not have enough extra experience to take care of her baby. In both cases the cub died on the second day. Because it is a very rare and endangered species in the wild, any unnatural human intervention is excluded when rearing young animals. As in the case of other beasts, even in the case of lions, the first litters of the female are often unable to bred, but gain valuable parental experience and skills through gradual learning. This is in line with the lifecycle of many mammalian species who are taught their parental responsibilities.
Breeders promise to relocate the Ostrava male to help Indian lions both in Prague and Ostrava. The male left with the consent of the Indian lion breeding coordinator at a time when his partner is hopeful and he is burned and needs enough rest for the anticipated birth and subsequent offspring of the young. At the same time, the Ostrava male can be linked to Prague females in the meantime. We believe that thanks to this cooperation we can wait for the first litter of Indian lion born in the Czech Republic - whether in Ostrava or in Prague.