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+--- Thread: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) (/topic-great-white-shark-carcharodon-carcharias)
Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 11-29-2019
Great whites would be seen as the most terrifying predators in the oceans, because they have the highest recorded number of attacks on humans, both fatal and non-fatal, at least in this list: https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/shark-attacks/factors/species-implicated/, https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-orcas-surround-and-scare-off-the-ocean-s-most-terrifying-predator
However, they aren't necessarily man-eaters, rather, they confuse humans for regular prey like seals, and whereas orcas (killer whales) do kill whales, these sharks scavenge on their carcasses:
(The whale isn't shown alive):
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 11-29-2019
Another thing that I want to mention here is that, like crocs, great whites can be social when hunting seals, or when faced with orcas, and both cases happen to have been reported from Mossel Bay near Seal Island, near Cape Town in southwest South Africa, where great whites would prey on Cape and Brown fur seals, besides other creatures like penguins: http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1006/1006_feature.html, https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-orcas-surround-and-scare-off-the-ocean-s-most-terrifying-predator
In early November 2019, a pod of orcaswere seen chasing a shark, with some other sharks being nearby. One of the other sharks was apparently 'unnerved' by the presence of orcas, while another did not appear to be 'perturbed', according to Oceans Research.
Sharks feasting on a whale carcass:
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 11-29-2019
This shark survived an attack by orcas off Neptune Island, southern Australia:
This one however decided to pick a fight with an orca, but wasn't so lucky:
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 11-29-2019
- Cannibalism in white sharks, besides others: https://vt.co/animals/stories/cannibal-great-white-sharks-tear-each-other-apart-in-brutal-attack/
- Great white rips up a seal near Cape Cod, Massachusetts, USA: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/great-white-shark-turns-water-19015783
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 02-03-2020
(01-09-2020, 01:41 AM)Spalea Wrote: Just for the fun... Very nice depiction, a white shark with a dunkleosteus ? It's always allowed dreaming !
This thread is for GW's in general.
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - scilover - 07-01-2020
(11-29-2019, 01:08 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: Another thing that I want to mention here is that, like crocs, great whites can be social when hunting seals, or when faced with orcas, and both cases happen to have been reported from Mossel Bay near Seal Island, near Cape Town in southwest South Africa, where great whites would prey on Cape and Brown fur seals, besides other creatures like penguins: http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1006/1006_feature.html, https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-orcas-surround-and-scare-off-the-ocean-s-most-terrifying-predator
In early November 2019, a pod of orcaswere seen chasing a shark, with some other sharks being nearby. One of the other sharks was apparently 'unnerved' by the presence of orcas, while another did not appear to be 'perturbed', according to Oceans Research.
Sharks feasting on a whale carcass:
Watching this video is so scary! I can't believe the divers got so close to the sharks while they were feeding. Even though they won't attack, I wouldn't want to dive in when they're eating a whale carcass. Thanks for sharing this video!
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - epaiva - 07-01-2020
*This image is copyright of its original author
Shark especialist Gordon Hubbel examined jaws and tooth sets from 26 Great White Sharks ranging from 379 to 594 cm in total length (TL)Taken from the book Great White Sharks (A. Peter Klimley and David G. Ainley)
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - Pckts - 07-24-2020
https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/shark-named-helen-drowns-whale-in-first-known-attack-of-its-kind/
GWS kills Humpback
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 08-19-2020
(07-24-2020, 02:52 AM)Pckts Wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/shark-named-helen-drowns-whale-in-first-known-attack-of-its-kind/
GWS kills Humpback
Though it was a juvenile, it was much bigger than Helen the shark, about 3 times (and measuring 32–33 ft or 9.7536–10.0584 m), so that was incredible! Humpback whales (Megaptera novæangliæ) have been seen to fight or dominate orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca), which in turn dominate GW sharks, so if a GW shark can do that to a much bigger creature, then what could Megalodon have done to Livyatan melvillei? https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-megalodon-not-as-big-as-we-once-thought?pid=124473#pid124473
Credit: National Geographic / Earth Touch
[attachment=4086]
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - johnny rex - 08-19-2020
(08-19-2020, 03:18 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(07-24-2020, 02:52 AM)Pckts Wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/shark-named-helen-drowns-whale-in-first-known-attack-of-its-kind/
GWS kills Humpback
Though it was a juvenile, it was much bigger than Helen the shark, so that was incredible! Humpback whales (Megaptera novæangliæ) have been seen to fight or dominate orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca), which in turn dominate GW sharks, so if a GW shark can do that to a much bigger creature, then what could Megalodon have done to Livyatan melvillei? https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-megalodon-not-as-big-as-we-once-thought?pid=124473#pid124473
Credit: National Geographic / Earth Touch
Although the humpback whale was a juvenile one that was impressive, I must say. I believe Megalodons and Livyatans were competing, attacking and killing each other just like marine predators nowadays, of course the outcomes depend on several factors (aggression, size, etc.)
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 08-19-2020
(08-19-2020, 03:58 PM)johnny rex Wrote:(08-19-2020, 03:18 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(07-24-2020, 02:52 AM)Pckts Wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/shark-named-helen-drowns-whale-in-first-known-attack-of-its-kind/
GWS kills Humpback
Though it was a juvenile, it was much bigger than Helen the shark, so that was incredible! Humpback whales (Megaptera novæangliæ) have been seen to fight or dominate orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca), which in turn dominate GW sharks, so if a GW shark can do that to a much bigger creature, then what could Megalodon have done to Livyatan melvillei? https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-megalodon-not-as-big-as-we-once-thought?pid=124473#pid124473
Credit: National Geographic / Earth Touch
*This image is copyright of its original author
Although the humpback whale was a juvenile one that was impressive, I must say. I believe Megalodons and Livyatans were competing, attacking and killing each other just like marine predators nowadays, of course the outcomes depend on several factors (aggression, size, etc.)
And this was after a pair of sharks (both measuring 11.5–13 ft (3.5–4 m) in total length (TL) based on boat length comparisons, and later confirmed via imaging software) was seen killing one that measured 23 ft (7.0104 m) at Mossel Bay off the coast of South Africa (again) on the 17th of February, 2017, as published in this journal by Dines and Gennari: https://www.newsweek.com/great-white-sharks-attacking-killing-humpback-whale-1492244, https://www.forbes.com/sites/melissacristinamarquez/2020/03/12/first-observations-of-white-sharks-attacking-a-live-humpback-whale/#1faca8e28f6c, https://baleinesendirect.org/en/humpback-attacked-by-great-white-sharks/
That said, even great white sharks can be social when hunting: https://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/master.html?http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1006/1006_feature.html, https://web.archive.org/web/20130515061210/http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/picks-from-the-past/201391/sociable-killers
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - Shadow - 08-19-2020
(08-19-2020, 03:18 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote:(07-24-2020, 02:52 AM)Pckts Wrote: https://nypost.com/2020/07/15/shark-named-helen-drowns-whale-in-first-known-attack-of-its-kind/
GWS kills Humpback
Though it was a juvenile, it was much bigger than Helen the shark, about 3 times (and measuring 32–33 ft or 9.7536–10.0584 m), so that was incredible! Humpback whales (Megaptera novæangliæ) have been seen to fight or dominate orcas or killer whales (Orcinus orca), which in turn dominate GW sharks, so if a GW shark can do that to a much bigger creature, then what could Megalodon have done to Livyatan melvillei? https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-megalodon-not-as-big-as-we-once-thought?pid=124473#pid124473
Credit: National Geographic / Earth Touch
Frankly saying it looks like, that you are making quite wild conclusion from very little.
First, co-operation of some sharks and for instance orcas are in so different level as is intelligence, I don´t think that you can find any marine biologist saying otherwise. Then again humpback whales dominating orcas... based on what? They can confront orcas for sure in pods, but still orcas hunt also humpbacks. Some sharks managing to do the same to some lone humpback, impressive, but still not quite the same. Orcas, when they choose to, can attack against a pod of humpbacks.
Here one article to open up a bit of observations: http://www.bbc.com/earth/story/20141209-orcas-and-whales-in-epic-battle . Big whales are formidable, but humpback whales are still prey for orcas and orcas are able to kill calves despite adult humpbacks do their best to protect.
While sharks might do sometimes some co-operation (on purpose or by accident can be asked, because there aren´t too much signs of communicating really), it has to be remembered, that whales and orcas can communicate during hunt and use several tactics depending on their prey. In some occasions there are suggestions, that orcas can frankly saying terrorize some other animals just for fun, a little bit like cat playing with mouse.
For me what you write is way too far-fetched and looking like, that you almost tendentiously try to make conclusions from very vague cases. Like you would have first decided, that you want to prove in some way, that megalodons would have dominated everything. And then you have started to look for anything what you could use to make it look like it.
Sorry to say this so frankly, but it´s how it looks like for me now. And not convincing for me personally at least, not at all. Sharks just aren´t that intelligent even though they do swarm often in same places. Still they scatter when bigger shark or orcas approach. No co-operation to overcome even a single bigger predator.
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - Shadow - 08-20-2020
I add to my previous posting, that obviously megalodon was an apex predator at the time it lived, only competitors most likely livyatan and then ancestors of orcas later. I mention these two because it´s difficult to think other species, which might have been able to compete maybe also in close range like eating same carcass, if some big whale killed. Livyatans because of their similar size and ancestors of orcas because of their intelligence and ability to work together.
This is of course speculation, but if any smaller species, orcas could have been able to be "pain in the ass" even if not lethal threat directly. After all it´s one thing to be able to do something and another to make a move against something as dangerous as megalodon have been. Still I dare to doubt, that orca calves haven´t been first choice of hungry megalodon to try luck.
I see it so, that even though megalodon can be said to have been the most dangerous species individually at the time, still it has had competitors which have been no jokes. It´s good to remember, that what is for us a "monster" can be to competitors "just another big fish with teeth". Maybe demanding respect, but not totally terrifying. Naturally from human point of view, it´s difficult to find from seas anything as terrifying as sharks.
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - BorneanTiger - 08-22-2020
About what I mean by humpbacks dominating orcas: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-baleen-whales-mysticeti?pid=124765#pid124765
RE: Great white shark (Carcharodon carcharias) - Shadow - 08-22-2020
(08-22-2020, 06:31 PM)BorneanTiger Wrote: About what I mean by humpbacks dominating orcas: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-baleen-whales-mysticeti?pid=124765#pid124765
So can you explain how there can be domination, when some species is prey to another and they can´t protect their calves from attacks and getting eaten? Even when they are in packs/pods and doing all what they can to make predators to give up/flee. I am waiting with interest if you can explain it in some reasonable way?
I mean with your own words, I don´t need to see articles, which I´ve seen many times in past.