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+----- Thread: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India (/topic-b2-and-other-great-tiger-pics-from-india)
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RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-18-2015
If there was a way to put a radio collar on by magic without ever drugging, hunting or tracking a tiger then it would not be an issue. But we are spliting hairs if we say the "radio collar" is not a issue. Because many animals have died from the tranq which is apart of collaring. Then the stress caused by being "hunted" then shot with a dart then animals will wake up or be groggy while being examined and they will remember this, they will also remember before being collared then after. All of this will contribute to a big cats health, attitude towards us, the stress caused will weaken a immune system and infection can occur easier. I provided a massive list of animals of all species who have died during this process, its not worth it. Now on top of everything else, humans are using this process to now track famous cats just to provide VIP tourism. This in turn is basically producing a "wild zoo."
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - GuateGojira - 03-19-2015
Those are just paranoid words and nonsenses.
Those who want to know the TRUTH about radiocollared tigers, please read these SCIENTIFIC documents from REAL studies on radiocollared tigers.
Here is the list:
[*]Sukumar. 1990. The Nagarhole tiger controversy.
[*]Majumder & Yadav. 2014. A Suggested Protocol for Radio-Telemetry Studies on Tiger (Panthera tigris L.).
[*]Barlow. 2008. Collaring Tigers for Conservation.
[*]Kreeger. (no date). Chemical Capture of Free-Ranging Felids.
[*]Smith et al. 1983. A technique for capturing and immobilizing tigers.
[*]Miller et al. 2010. Review of research methodologies for tigers: Telemetry.
[*]Chundawat & Malik. 2010. Beeping tigers: A reliable way of understanding tiger Biology, Ecology and behaviour.
[/list]
To ALL posters, please READ the attached documents. Then you will know the TRUTH. What is happening in Kanha and Tadoba, with tigers been radiocollared for tourists, is NOT the norm, but a bad use of an excellent (if not the best) scientific tool to understand the wild tigers. I will say it again, you can blame the user of a tool, but not the tool itself, that is an irresponsible way to get an opinion about something.
I am not going to waste more words with people that exaggerate and/or lie to present a point. Here is the evidence, there you go...
Good day to all. [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-19-2015
"Those are just paranoid words and nonsenses."
More of the same BS gaute?
Just for your information, just because the 4/5 tigers who died in the Nagarhole were not fitted with collars they were still captured. Which of course is the point, the collar is meaningless, its the hunting, tranq'ing, stress caused, lack of immune system due to stress, attitude change, towards tigers and man, health decrease etc.
I honestly thought we were past that "paranoid" excuse since its so absurd, but if that is all you are going to say, its meaningless to try and convince you otherwise. The proof is in the pudding, big cats, herbivores, etc. All have died from this process, its happens. End of debate!
I already posted these in the thread they were intended for, but since you want to past it here, I will do the same
Once again, I may add [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]
Mountain lion dies from sedation
http://www.reviewjournal.com/trending/fe...enter-dies
Lion cub dies from sedation
http://yekaterinburgnews.com/daily-news/...dent/9153/
14 sea lions die from sedation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22779225
Arizona jaguar dies from kidney failure after being captured and collared
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2009/03/0...y-failure/
"Update: Arizona jaguar’s death probably hastened by capture, zoo veterinarian says "
The jaguar lunged at the pair, but they were able to get a dart loaded with the sedative ketamine into its hindquarters. When the first dart didn't sedate the animal, Rosas applied two more doses, half the quantity of the first.
The animal never recovered from sedation and died as the warm morning turned hot. Rosas attributed the death to "heat stress."
http://tucson.com/news/science/environme...9c706.html
Rhino Dies from sedation
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...nists?lite
Cougars dies from Tranq
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=30500120
Tranq Kills Leopard
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...20,6087478
Leopard Cub dies from overdose
"Leopard cub rescued from treetop, but killed due to tranquiliser overdose in Assam"
African Lion Dies during Immobilization
http://www.desertlion.info/reports/field_immobilize.pdf
Page 141
Another leopard dies from Tranq
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/an...st/738824/
Tranq kills clouded leopard
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/deta...13/state06
Elephant death from tranq
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1990-06...t-zoo-jojo
another
http://www.ekantipur.com/the-kathmandu-p...59322.html
Here is the thread it belongs in for anybody curious
http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-eyes-on-or-hands-on-a-discussion-of-human-interference?page=2
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-19-2015
Now back to the topic this thread is intended for
T24 checking to see if there are any forest guards available for a quick bite to eat
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Then marking his new territory as he walks off.
Hemraj MeenaSanctuary Asia Follow · 12 hrs · ·
With Bittu Sahgal.
Apparently this structure is used by forest guards all the time, they were very lucky to not be there this time.
But using the door way as a scale you can get a good idea of his shoulder height and body length, somebody with photoshop skills could draw a line between the head and body and door way to estimate. I'm 6'5'' and i barely fit through a door way w/out ducking so lets say the average door way is 6'6'' or 6'7'' I would guess his shoulder height to be slightly more then half, so lets say 3'7''-3'9'' and his head and body look to be as long as the door is tall. Seems to fit right in to a good sized male tiger with good mass. Estimated guess based off those measurements, T24 is probably 225kg-250kg.
What do you guys think?
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Roflcopters - 03-19-2015
Guate and Pckts, can you guys just stop responding to each other.. it's not doing any good to the topic and we both know that you guys had this argument before in the past. Also, lovely pictures of T24! Tfs [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-19-2015
You're right @Roflcopters, Im done with that.
Check out this page
https://www.facebook.com/groups/friends.of.dudhwa/
I can't read Hindi, can you tell me what happened to this Elephant? Looks to be devoured
http://archive.patrika.com/news/female-elephant-dies-in-dubari-reserve/1078968
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-19-2015
Cubs in Ranth w/momma
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Yasser Sheikh February 13 · ·
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-19-2015
(03-19-2015, 09:47 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Now back to the topic this thread is intended for
T24 checking to see if there are any forest guards available for a quick bite to eat
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Then marking his new territory as he walks off.
Hemraj MeenaSanctuary Asia Follow · 12 hrs · ·
With Bittu Sahgal.
Apparently this structure is used by forest guards all the time, they were very lucky to not be there this time.
But using the door way as a scale you can get a good idea of his shoulder height and body length, somebody with photoshop skills could draw a line between the head and body and door way to estimate. I'm 6'5'' and i barely fit through a door way w/out ducking so lets say the average door way is 6'6'' or 6'7'' I would guess his shoulder height to be slightly more then half, so lets say 3'7''-3'9'' and his head and body look to be as long as the door is tall. Seems to fit right in to a good sized male tiger with good mass. Estimated guess based off those measurements, T24 is probably 225kg-250kg.
What do you guys think?
It seems that he has a knack for killing humans
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIJ%2F2012%2F10%2F26&PageLabel=1&EntityId=Ar00102&ViewMode=HTML
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - tigerluver - 03-19-2015
If T42 keeps coming into conflict with humans, he may very well be put down based on how such tigers have been dealt with. The manner he is checking a building makes it seem like he's gone maneater. I'm not sure how exactly one can get humans out of T42's way without relocating him majorly. Is there any "strikes" policy on maneaters?
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Pckts - 03-20-2015
T24 is actually worse than T42 towards humans, both are man eaters but not necessarily "man hunters"
They come into conflict with man very often, the link I posted of all the predations on man from T24 total 4 in 5 years. I'm sure he has had many more opportunities, I think they are predators, simple as that. No predator should distinguish prey, they are all opportunity to eat. No matter how bad Humans want them to leave us alone, it doesn't work like that.
Corbett's idea that "man eaters" are old or injured, was obviously a fabrication to use for him to act like the "good guy" when killing these massive and beautiful animals. While some predations on man are from old or injured that may only be because man is slow, his senses are dull, he is easy prey.
T24 and T42 have something in common though, both have been captured by man, one has been collared the other sedated and medicated. Not trying to turn this back into what was discussed earlier, its just the truth.
I'd be curious to start a real thread on confirmed man eaters and see if we could actually find a common trend/s?
But either way, I hope they never touch these dominant males, they deserve to live their lives out in the territory they worked so hard to gain. If its a danger to man, so be it. Tourism is already going absolutely insane at Ranth. maybe it will help them maintain a little balance and less tourists will want to go, but I fear it may be the opposite. I think the threat of being attacked, even if its slight, may actually bring more tourism.
"People always love to gawk a car wreck" so to speak. The chances of seeing one may actually entice them further.
Who knows...
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - tripoliraider - 03-20-2015
Does someone have any info about that tiger? He looks really massive
http://images.yuku.com.s3.amazonaws.com/image/jpeg/66225d3999e062e051c6f233c28417cfaadc029.jpg
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - Rage2277 - 03-20-2015
(03-19-2015, 10:34 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:(03-19-2015, 09:47 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: Now back to the topic this thread is intended for
T24 checking to see if there are any forest guards available for a quick bite to eat
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Then marking his new territory as he walks off.
Hemraj MeenaSanctuary Asia Follow · 12 hrs · ·
With Bittu Sahgal.
Apparently this structure is used by forest guards all the time, they were very lucky to not be there this time.
But using the door way as a scale you can get a good idea of his shoulder height and body length, somebody with photoshop skills could draw a line between the head and body and door way to estimate. I'm 6'5'' and i barely fit through a door way w/out ducking so lets say the average door way is 6'6'' or 6'7'' I would guess his shoulder height to be slightly more then half, so lets say 3'7''-3'9'' and his head and body look to be as long as the door is tall. Seems to fit right in to a good sized male tiger with good mass. Estimated guess based off those measurements, T24 is probably 225kg-250kg.
What do you guys think?
It seems that he has a knack for killing humans
http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Default/Scripting/ArticleWin.asp?From=Archive&Source=Page&Skin=TOINEW&BaseHref=TOIJ%2F2012%2F10%2F26&PageLabel=1&EntityId=Ar00102&ViewMode=HTML
that's T24
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - GuateGojira - 03-20-2015
(03-19-2015, 09:41 PM)'Pckts' Wrote: "Those are just paranoid words and nonsenses."Why you lie Pckts??? Only four tigers were captured in Nagarahole and only one died and was because of its injures BEFORE its capture, READ the attached document, NO OTHER CAPTURE WAS REALIZED!
More of the same BS gaute?
Just for your information, just because the 4/5 tigers who died in the Nagarhole were not fitted with collars they were still captured. Which of course is the point, the collar is meaningless, its the hunting, tranq'ing, stress caused, lack of immune system due to stress, attitude change, towards tigers and man, health decrease etc.
I honestly thought we were past that "paranoid" excuse since its so absurd, but if that is all you are going to say, its meaningless to try and convince you otherwise. The proof is in the pudding, big cats, herbivores, etc. All have died from this process, its happens. End of debate!
I already posted these in the thread they were intended for, but since you want to past it here, I will do the same
Once again, I may add [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]
Mountain lion dies from sedation
http://www.reviewjournal.com/trending/fe...enter-dies
Lion cub dies from sedation
http://yekaterinburgnews.com/daily-news/...dent/9153/
14 sea lions die from sedation
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22779225
Arizona jaguar dies from kidney failure after being captured and collared
http://www.thewildlifenews.com/2009/03/0...y-failure/
"Update: Arizona jaguar’s death probably hastened by capture, zoo veterinarian says "
The jaguar lunged at the pair, but they were able to get a dart loaded with the sedative ketamine into its hindquarters. When the first dart didn't sedate the animal, Rosas applied two more doses, half the quantity of the first.
The animal never recovered from sedation and died as the warm morning turned hot. Rosas attributed the death to "heat stress."
http://tucson.com/news/science/environme...9c706.html
Rhino Dies from sedation
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/...nists?lite
Cougars dies from Tranq
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=30500120
Tranq Kills Leopard
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=13...20,6087478
Leopard Cub dies from overdose
"Leopard cub rescued from treetop, but killed due to tranquiliser overdose in Assam"
African Lion Dies during Immobilization
http://www.desertlion.info/reports/field_immobilize.pdf
Page 141
Another leopard dies from Tranq
http://archive.indianexpress.com/news/an...st/738824/
Tranq kills clouded leopard
http://www.assamtribune.com/scripts/deta...13/state06
Elephant death from tranq
http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/1990-06...t-zoo-jojo
another
http://www.ekantipur.com/the-kathmandu-p...59322.html
Here is the thread it belongs in for anybody curious
http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-eyes-on-or-hands-on-a-discussion-of-human-interference?page=2
Those statements of stress, lack of immune system are NOT based in ANY scientific evidence, just in paranoid words and nonsenses, like I told you before. If you want to prove that tigers "suffered", show the evidence, from my part, I have showed that the principal concern during a capture is the tiger itself and much care is taken for its health. This information is "hidden" in the documents that I posted before, those that you have ignored, again.
Other thing, those "cases" that you quote, none of them are TIGERS. If you are trying to prove that radiocollaring animals is wrong, why you don't present HOW those particular studies were developed? You are just showing the case like it was showed by the media, but not the full context of the situation, we know that one animal died but you don't show us how many of that sample are alive and well. That is create a false testimony Pckts, and you know that.
The "paranoid" word is not absurd, it perfectly describe your attitude against an excellent method STILL used by scientists in the entire world and that has been very successful with tigers. It is interesting that you have not read any of the documents that I posted, but I hope that the other posters would do it, IF they want to know the truth.
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - GuateGojira - 03-20-2015
(03-19-2015, 10:03 PM)'Roflcopters' Wrote: Guate and Pckts, can you guys just stop responding to each other.. it's not doing any good to the topic and we both know that you guys had this argument before in the past. Also, lovely pictures of T24! Tfs [img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]Sorry Roflcopters, but everytime that a crazy person would try to trash Science, I will rise to defend her, with direct evidence, like I have showed in my post with more than five documents specifically about radiocollaring tigers and other great cats.
RE: B2 and Other Great Tiger Pics from India - GuateGojira - 03-20-2015
(03-20-2015, 12:29 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: Corbett's idea that "man eaters" are old or injured, was obviously a fabrication to use for him to act like the "good guy" when killing these massive and beautiful animals. While some predations on man are from old or injured that may only be because man is slow, his senses are dull, he is easy prey.Dr Sunquist, and by extension the entire Scientific community, disagree with you. Check this out, from the book "Wild Cats of the World" of 2002, the full section of "Conflict with humans". Check specially page 365:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Jim Corbett is one of the first TRUE tiger conservationist in the entire history. To say that he "fabricated" his conclusions is BS from your part. Jim Corbett clearly stated that the tigers are gentlemen and they are normally very good tempered. Man eaters are a rarity, and are caused mostly by external situations. The case of tiger T-24 most be studied before to make silly claims like yours.
What you are going to "Invent" next time??? [img]images/smilies/biggrin.gif[/img]