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+--- Thread: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) (/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris)
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RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Wolverine - 11-29-2017
Thank you. Peter, you don't need to know Russian in order to get there. Durminskoye forestry is a vast wildlife viewing company with many dozens of people working there, they obviously have in the administration a ladies who speak fluent English. After some search I found for you their official English website:
http://www.russiatigertracking.com/activ...acking.php
You go on "contacts" and can arrange your visit there. I red that a lot of famous foreign tourists have already visited Durminskoye forestry, including former Paul Maccartny's producer Kenneth Berry and DUTCH surgeon Michel Reijnen (you could ask him for opinion).
Ockarik as long as I understood has on his tail four black circles imitating eye glasses that's how he got his name. Batalov doesn't mention exactly what kind of bear he has killed - Asiatic Black bear or Brown bear, so we don't know. I agree that this question is very important - killing of Asiatic black bear is one story and killing of brown bear is completely different story - brown bear is twice the size of black bear and much stronger. Average weight of male Ussuri brown bear is 260-270 kg, average weight of male Ussuri black bear if I am not wrong - only 130-140 kg.
Skulls of what animals you want to measure in Khabarovsk - tigers skulls, bears or all kind of animals? It's curious for me.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Betty - 11-29-2017
I recently read the article, the article mentioned Tiger Jay weight is 284kg, is this true?
*This image is copyright of its original author
http://pritskulkarni.blogspot.com/2016/04/umred-karhandla-wildlife-sanctuary-new.html
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Roflcopters - 11-29-2017
definitely not, seems like a public blog to me. I wouldnt take any of that serious.
*This image is copyright of its original author
according to the statistics of the Governor General of Korea, the number of Choson tigers slaughtered during the period of Japanese occupation was around 141. this tiger is arguably the last male tiger to have been photographed on October/2/1922 in Gyongju. Mt Daedok in Kyongsangbukto province. the tiger skin was dedicated to the Imperial House of Japan.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Rishi - 11-29-2017
@Betty Here's Jai..
*This image is copyright of its original author
The offical numbers were 238 kg. (215kg as sub-adult)..That seems more probable.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Pckts - 11-29-2017
(11-29-2017, 08:25 PM)Rishi Wrote: @Betty Here's Jai..
*This image is copyright of its original author
The offical numbers were 238 kg. (215kg as sub-adult)..That seems more probable.
Official number was 220kg after the adjustment Per. Dr. Habib
" On Thursday, November 12, 2015, Bilal Habib <[email protected]> wrote:
Scale Capacity 500 kg
Yes body measurements taken.
Neither baited nor gorged, he was darted on road.
BH
On 11/12/2015 11:11 PM, wrote:
What was the scales capacity?
Did you take any body measurements?
Was he baited or gorged?
Thanks again for your time, regards.
-----Original Message-----
From: Bilal Habib <[email protected]>
To: >
Sent: Fri, Oct 30, 2015 9:25 am
Subject: Re: Jai's Weight
220 kg
On 10/30/2015 9:38 PM, wrote:
Quote:Good after Dr, I saw that you recently radio collared Jai from Umred and I was curious if you were able to weigh him?
If so I was wondering what his weight was and if you took any other measurements, like head and body, total length, chest, neck, forelimbs etc?
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - peter - 11-30-2017
(11-29-2017, 03:35 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Thank you. Peter, you don't need to know Russian in order to get there. Durminskoye forestry is a vast wildlife viewing company with many dozens of people working there, they obviously have in the administration a ladies who speak fluent English. After some search I found for you their official English website:
http://www.russiatigertracking.com/activ...acking.php
You go on "contacts" and can arrange your visit there. I red that a lot of famous foreign tourists have already visited Durminskoye forestry, including former Paul Maccartny's producer Kenneth Berry and DUTCH surgeon Michel Reijnen (you could ask him for opinion).
Ockarik as long as I understood has on his tail four black circles imitating eye glasses that's how he got his name. Batalov doesn't mention exactly what kind of bear he has killed - Asiatic Black bear or Brown bear, so we don't know. I agree that this question is very important - killing of Asiatic black bear is one story and killing of brown bear is completely different story - brown bear is twice the size of black bear and much stronger. Average weight of male Ussuri brown bear is 260-270 kg, average weight of male Ussuri black bear if I am not wrong - only 130-140 kg.
Skulls of what animals you want to measure in Khabarovsk - tigers skulls, bears or all kind of animals? It's curious for me.
Excellent info again. Where can I find the comments of visitors? Are sure Batalov is the man who can open the door of the Chabarowsk Natural History Museum, as I couldn't find any info on the museum?
My first goal is to measure and photograph skulls of wild Amur tigers (all) and those of black and brown bears and a number of wild boars. I need 2-3 weeks for the museum and will add a trip to Batalov's place after I'm done with the skulls. All in all, I have about a month or so.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - peter - 11-30-2017
(11-29-2017, 01:05 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: definitely not, seems like a public blog to me. I wouldnt take any of that serious.
*This image is copyright of its original author
according to the statistics of the Governor General of Korea, the number of Choson tigers slaughtered during the period of Japanese occupation was around 141. this tiger is arguably the last male tiger to have been photographed on October/2/1922 in Gyongju. Mt Daedok in Kyongsangbukto province. the tiger skin was dedicated to the Imperial House of Japan.
Very good find, Copters. Photographs of Korean tigers hunted during the Japanese occupation are rare.
Compared to Amur tigers in Russia and, especially, Manchuria, Korean tigers were a bit smaller. Some individuals, however, exceeded 500 pounds. The largest accepted by biologists is the 560-pound male shot by Baikov near the Korean border in 1911.
Although not as big as Jai, the male shot in October 1922 is not a small animal.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Ngala - 11-30-2017
Investigating patterns of tiger and prey poaching in the Bangladesh Sundarbans: Implications for improved management Aziz et al., 2017
*This image is copyright of its original author
Fig. 4. Probability of poaching activity derived from negative binomial regression coefficients of the distance to guard posts and distance to water.
Abstract:
"Poaching of tigers and their key prey threatens the survival of tigers across their range. This study investigated the methods, intensity, and driving factors of tiger and prey poaching in the Sundarbans Reserved Forest of Bangladesh, to help better design and direct future management interventions. The study identified a range of snaring methods used to catch prey and an approach to killing tigers by poisoning prey carcasses with a Carbofuran pesticide. We recorded six poisoned baits set to kill tigers and 1427 snare loops in 56 snare sets to kill tiger prey. With an average of 23 snare loops/snare set, this is equivalent to an estimated 6268 snare loops across the Sundarbans or 147 snare loops/100 km2. Poachers selected sites that tended to be away from guard posts, and close to river banks, but were not influenced by protected area status or distance to the forest boundary. The current poaching pressure is likely to have contributed to a recent decline in relative tiger abundance. We recommend using better regulation of Carbofuran use across tiger range countries, and using remote camera traps set up around snares and poisoned baits to help authorities identify poachers for arrest. This study demonstrates a simple approach to investigating the methods, intensity and distribution of poaching, that could be replicated across all tiger landscapes to better direct mitigating actions and monitor changes in threat levels over time."
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Wolverine - 12-01-2017
(11-30-2017, 01:31 PM)peter Wrote: [quote pid='47692' dateline='1511908517']
My first goal is to measure and photograph skulls of wild Amur tigers (all) and those of black and brown bears and a number of wild boars. I need 2-3 weeks for the museum and will add a trip to Batalov's place after I'm done with the skulls.
I think it's gonna work in other way around - first you should make safari trip in Batalov's entity and than try to enter the museums. First I think you should try to get closer to Batalov, to make him happy with bying a travel package with his company, when during your trip you make friendly relations with him, during the lunch or dinner in the forest bungalow you could ask him: "Mr Batalov, do you have any idea how I can enter Chabarovsk Museum of Natural History?" If you do this by telephone you could accept rightway refusal. Batalov is obviously a big businessman, biologist, film producer - such a men usually have a lot of influence and links in the society, for sure some of his employes could have friends in the museums. In Russia more than any other country good links are very important, more important than the law itself. Of course there is no guarantee, I cant be sure, I am giving you just an idea Peter. Maybe Batalov will not help you, he could say "no". But as I understand you don't have other options. You for example could buy an airplane ticket to Khabarovsk with open not-fixed return - first you make visit to Ussuri forest for a week trying to see a wild tiger, if Batalov say "yes" than you go to museum for a week or two more making measurments, if he say "no" than you directly return to Amsterdam. You do not lose nothing - at least you will see the wild Ussuri forest and "smell" the presence of wild Amur tigers. I am giving you just an idea how to spend an wonderful vacation in the nature.
If you succeed to enter a museum think the measurments especially of wild boars are quite interesting. Ussuri wild boar - Sus scrofa ussuricus is often mentioned as the largest subspecie of wild boar reaching 350 kg weight, but this is just a general statement. I have seen very few detailed measurments, few detailed data of this animal. Many biologists and exactly hunters from the former USSR say that hunting trophies of wild boars from Eastern Europe and more especially the Carpathian wild boars from Romania, Belarus, Balkans - S.s.atilla - are actually larger than the trophies from Ussuriland. So if you succeed to prove with detailed measurments and data that Ussuri boar is larger than Carpathian or opposite - if you prove that is smaller than Carpathian that will be great.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Wolverine - 12-02-2017
(11-30-2017, 01:31 PM)peter Wrote: [quote pid='47692' dateline='1511908517']
Chabarowsk Natural History Museum, as I couldn't find any info on the museum?
[/quote]
As I inderstand there is no Natural History Museum in that city as a separate entity but in the Habarovsk Regional Museum there is a Hall of Nature with many rooms where you can see 2-3 taxidermic Amur tigers. Their website is currently under reconstruction so you can see several photos of Hall of Nature, move the mouse from top to the very bottom:
https://dkphoto.livejournal.com/157144.html#/157144.html
and here:
https://vladivostok.livejournal.com/3869638.html
I was not able to understand are there also skulls of tigers and other animals or only taxidermic snuffed wild animals in the Habarovsk Regional Museum.
This museum has also some smaller branches in other smaller towns - Pereiaslavka and Bikin municipal museums. They are very humble but probably to enter there is much easier than in Habarovsk museum itself. That's the website of Pereiaslavka town municipal museum, I see a tiger down there:
http://muzey-lazo.27.ru/?page=41
But I have absolutely no idea are there any tiger skulls in these museums or only taxidermic skinned tigers, such information is unavailable by internet.
RE: Man-eaters - Wolverine - 12-03-2017
Last month an Amur tigress has killed a man gathering a pine cones in the forest:
https://ria.ru/incidents/20171129/1509823947.html
"IN THE REGION OF HABAROVSK WAS CAPTURED A MANEATING TIGRESS
29 November 2017. RIA news
The tigress who has killed a man gathering pine cones was hunted down and captured in Habarovsk region Wednesday night, she was tranquilized and sent to rehabilitation centre inform regional Ministry of natural resources.
The body of the pine cone's gatherer was found 30th October in the aria of Bikin. It got clear that the man had not an weapon with himself and he was attacked by "young 2-3 years old tiger". Enquiry was started and the government gave a green light the carnivore to be captured and studied.
In the night of 29the November an operative unit of Ministry of natural resourses hunted down a tigress who has killed a citizen of village Boitcovo. Temporary tranquilised animal will be send to rehabilitation centre "Utjos".
All necessary bio-samples will be directed for veterinary expertize. Decision should be taken by the Ministry about further fate of the tigress - to be placed in zoo or not."
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Greatearth - 12-03-2017
Roflcopters
Where did you find that photo?
That tiger was not the last wild tiger in Korea and not the last male tiger to have been photographed. The numbers of 141 tigers were slaughtered in Joseon is also wrong information. You probably searched in Google and read from English website. This is why it is good to know languages in Asia continent where the tiger was existed if you want to study tiger.
About that male tiger, he also attacked man (guy was a woodcutter) before he was killed just like other Korean tiger. Jap destroyed tons of habitat, over hunted animals, and killed tremendous livestock in Korea and Manchuria during the jap occupation (There are several unknown native dog breeds and cow were also extinct in Korea and southern Manchuria because of these evil jap). He was probably roamed around and attacked woodcutter since forest was gone and prey animals were disappeared. As for a woodcutter, this poor guy was unable to work due to his injuries by a tiger. He lost his mom and family since he couldn't work. It was not just in Korea, this was definitely common in entire Asia when western europe and japan was colonized in Asia. This is why tiger became critical endangered animal today.
It is impossible to know his size. One zoologist wrote 273 cm long and other zoologist wrote 258 cm long and 154 kg. I personally think 273 cm is the right measurement. Prey depletion was a big problem in Korea during early 1990 s for large mammal predators because of uncivilized japanese. The number of prey animal was probably even lower than Russian Far East in 1970 ~ 1990 s and that is why even animal like red fox was also extinct in Korea. Korea was the first country to lost the Siberian tiger.
The biggest male Korean tiger (from I can find right now) ever recorded was one male tiger caught in Bulgap mountain area. He was something like 360 ~ 365 cm long, but skin doesn't look enormous as 360 cm length. Just long and slender, and skin was also folded in photo. One funny story is that one japanese guy ate that tiger's tongue and he was sick badly for a several months.
Peter
I will answer previous post later. I don't have a time these days. However, I believe tiger, other Felidae, and other animals should be separated its subspecies after I discovered zoo in USA is mix breeding the Asian elephant. The Snow leopard is recently discovered as 3 subspecies even though their range map is smaller than tiger. I believe it is better to distinguish tiger subspecies as 9 subspecies. Even if it is 2 subspecies, they should be only crossbreed with neighborhood subspecies.
I don't really know which boar is the largest. I often heard the Manchurian boar is the biggest of all boar. The Korean boar (South Korea) looks also smaller than their families in north. I never heard the Belarusian boar was huge. The top predator of the South Korea today is a boar, but I never heard huge male boar caught in Korea.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Roflcopters - 12-03-2017
I got it from Game Animals of the past and present facebook page. feel free to correct them.
http://hkw.de/de/tigers_publication/taxidermy_of_time_tigers_as_the_chronotope_of_continual_coloniality_in_korea___yongwoo_lee/taxidermy_of_time_tigers_as_the_chronotope_of_continual_coloniality_in_korea___yongwoo_lee.php
correct them too.
Quote:This is why it is good to know languages in Asia continent where the tiger was existed if you want to study tiger
share some information if you have anything on this particular group.
RE: Man-eaters - peter - 12-04-2017
(12-03-2017, 11:00 AM)Wolverine Wrote: Last month an Amur tigress has killed a man gathering a pine cones in the forest:
https://ria.ru/incidents/20171129/1509823947.html
"IN THE REGION OF HABAROVSK WAS CAPTURED A MANEATING TIGRESS
29 November 2017. RIA news
The tigress who has killed a man gathering pine cones was hunted down and captured in Habarovsk region Wednesday night, she was tranquilized and sent to rehabilitation centre inform regional Ministry of natural resources.
The body of the pine cone's gatherer was found 30th October in the aria of Bikin. It got clear that the man had not an weapon with himself and he was attacked by "young 2-3 years old tiger". Enquiry was started and the government gave a green light the carnivore to be captured and studied.
In the night of 29the November an operative unit of Ministry of natural resourses hunted down a tigress who has killed a citizen of village Boitcovo. Temporary tranquilised animal will be send to rehabilitation centre "Utjos".
All necessary bio-samples will be directed for veterinary expertize. Decision should be taken by the Ministry about further fate of the tigress - to be placed in zoo or not."
This is news indeed, as Amur tigers only very seldom attack humans. If they do, there always is a reason. In nine of out ten cases, the reason is self-defence. In this case, however, the man was unarmed. This means it's likely that the attack was unprovoked. The question is what happened and why. It is about the details.
As you know, there is a big difference between a big cat killing a human and a confirmed man-eater. This thread is about confirmed man-eaters. For this reason, I propose to move a copy to the tiger-extinction thread.
Good find again, Wolverine.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - peter - 12-04-2017
(12-02-2017, 01:41 PM)Wolverine Wrote:(11-30-2017, 01:31 PM)peter Wrote: [quote pid='47692' dateline='1511908517']
Chabarowsk Natural History Museum, as I couldn't find any info on the museum?
As I inderstand there is no Natural History Museum in that city as a separate entity but in the Habarovsk Regional Museum there is a Hall of Nature with many rooms where you can see 2-3 taxidermic Amur tigers. Their website is currently under reconstruction so you can see several photos of Hall of Nature, move the mouse from top to the very bottom:
https://dkphoto.livejournal.com/157144.html#/157144.html
and here:
https://vladivostok.livejournal.com/3869638.html
I was not able to understand are there also skulls of tigers and other animals or only taxidermic snuffed wild animals in the Habarovsk Regional Museum.
This museum has also some smaller branches in other smaller towns - Pereiaslavka and Bikin municipal museums. They are very humble but probably to enter there is much easier than in Habarovsk museum itself. That's the website of Pereiaslavka town municipal museum, I see a tiger down there:
http://muzey-lazo.27.ru/?page=41
But I have absolutely no idea are there any tiger skulls in these museums or only taxidermic skinned tigers, such information is unavailable by internet.
[/quote]
Excellent info. Thanks.
The question is where skulls of wild Amur are kept. Who would be able to answer that question?