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RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Greatearth - 12-28-2019
There is a little mystery about Bengal tigers in Sundarban. The same for Indochinese tigers once lived in the Mekong Delta and any tiger subspecies once lived near the coastal area, mangrove swamp, and swamp near the sea. Today will be the Sundarban tiger. We all know that salty is one of the most important substance for life to survive, but too much salt is harmful. American food is extremely salty. Apparently, I also heard many famous restaurants in Europe are salty too. Car is require everywhere to go somewhere. That is why many Americans are fat when they turn mid 20s. Eating salty food and less active while metabolism is slower. How about Sundarban tiger? How do they survive in mangrove swamp where they are living with salt water? I don’t know about today, but Sundarban tigers were often known as infamous man-eating tigers until the 2010.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
In the 1970s to 1980s, Hendrichs, Chowdbury, and Sanyal believed tiger attacking on human in Sundarban is due to salinity of the water in their habitat. Rishi said in posts #1,420 and #1,424 that many species that went extinct in Sundarban were mostly adapted to freshwater. I don’t know if animals like pink headed duck, leopard, clouded leopard, gaur, Sumatran rhino, javan rhino, and elephant (not sure clouded leopard, leopard, and elephant actually lived in Sundarban, but I remember hearing the last leopard in Bangladesh). Hunting, poaching, and overuse of freshwater/river are most likely the reason. Salinity of the water will be higher in Sundarban due to global warming and rising water use on Ganges, Brahmaputra, and Meghna rivers.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
In the mid 1980s, government made freshwater water tanks in Sundarban. It believed tiger loves those water tanks. However, it is only limited places that has the freshwater tank in Sundarban. How do tigers survive in Sundarban? Sundarban tigers are probably getting freshwater during the rainy season and thunderstorm. It is still limited unlike tigers in other places of Asia. Sundarban tigers living in southern Sundarban and between islands. Where are they getting water source besides drinking saltwater in sea? Core area of tiger reserve in Sundarban seems to have saltwater from Rishi's photos. Their lifespan is also shorter than tigers in other Asia?
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Shadow - 12-31-2019
I decided to put this short video here too. Thapar, Karanth, Schaller and Joseph Vattakaven can be seen in this. Karanth, Schaller and Vattakaven also discussing with each others. A good video to give faces to some wildlife and tiger conservation legends.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - GuateGojira - 12-31-2019
(12-31-2019, 06:01 AM)Shadow Wrote: I decided to put this short video here too. Thapar, Karanth, Schaller and Joseph Vattakaven can be seen in this. Karanth, Schaller and Vattakaven also discussing with each others. A good video to give faces to some wildlife and tiger conservation legends.
Wonderfull video! Thank you for put it here man! I will search more about the work of Joseph Vattakaven in Kanha, by the way.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Shadow - 12-31-2019
(12-31-2019, 09:41 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:(12-31-2019, 06:01 AM)Shadow Wrote: I decided to put this short video here too. Thapar, Karanth, Schaller and Joseph Vattakaven can be seen in this. Karanth, Schaller and Vattakaven also discussing with each others. A good video to give faces to some wildlife and tiger conservation legends.
Wonderfull video! Thank you for put it here man! I will search more about the work of Joseph Vattakaven in Kanha, by the way.
I liked that too and I think, that that kind of footage is always valuable to see. It gives some perspective. Vattakaven is very interesting and obviously knows what he is talking about. Difficult to argue with a guy who has spent 4-5 years observing wild tigers practically all the time while awake.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Sully - 01-03-2020
A new national geographic article on tigers in captivity in the United States
https://relay.nationalgeographic.com/proxy/distribution/public/amp/animals/2019/11/tigers-in-the-united-states-outnumber-those-in-the-wild-feature?__twitter_impression=true
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - peter - 01-03-2020
SULLY
Thanks for posting the National Geographic article on captive tigers in the USA. It's both interesting and devastating. One can only hope sound decisions will be taken in the near future.
Can you post a copy of the article on the plight of wild tigers in Malaysia you recently posted in the thread on Indo-Chinese tigers? As a result of poaching, Malaysia now has less than 200 wild tigers left.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Sully - 01-03-2020
Sure thing
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Sully - 01-03-2020
With fewer than 200 tigers left, Malaysia is facing a crisis
For WWF-Malaysia Chief Executive Officer (CEO) Sophia Lim, the time to act, and act fast, is now.
“Tigers are part of our Jata Negara (National Coat of Arms), and are in all our emblems. It is very important that the whole country rallies behind this cause, ” Lim tells Sunday Star during a recent interview at WWF-Malaysia headquarters in Petaling Jaya.
The biggest threat to tiger conservation in Malaysia comes from poaching. Poachers from Indochina, assisted by locals, hunt Malayan tigers due to the high demand for body parts to be used in traditional Chinese medicine and other purposes. To make things worse, last year the Chinese government reversed a 25-year-old ban on the trade in tiger bones for traditional medicine.
If nothing is done soon, we will forever lose the Malayan tiger, classified as critically endangered by the International Union for Conservation of Nature (IUCN), within the next five and 10 years, Water, Land and Natural Resources Minister Dr Xavier Jayakumar told parliament in March.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Let it never happen again
An especially poignant moment in conservation for Lim was meeting Malaysia’s last Sumatran Rhino, Iman, who was then being cared for by specialists from the Borneo Rhino Alliance.
“Being up close and personal with her was a really touching moment for me. Knowing that she was the only one left made my heart reach out to her. We understand that they are solitary animals, but she must have been so lonely, ” says Lim, who describes Iman as being ‘chatty’ during their meeting.
In late November, Lim received a heartbreaking message informing her that Iman, who was battling cancer, was on her deathbed. Although Lim was determined to fly back to Sabah, unfortunately she did not make it in time to say her final goodbyes.
Iman’s death further drives Lim’s determination to save the tigers and prevent Iman’s story from ever happening again.
“My heart grieved but my mind was telling me that being sad is not enough. We need to act. We need to send a compelling message to Malaysians and the government.This is what led me to the tigers because they are the next to go extinct if we do not do anything, ” says Lim.
One area in need of immediate attention is the Belum-Temengor jungle complex, where tiger numbers are at a critical stage.
According to the Perak State Parks Corporation’s estimate, there are only 23 tigers left in the Royal Belum and Temengor forest reserves. Just seven to eight years ago, there were sixty.
With this in mind, WWF-Malaysia is taking active measures to combat and frustrate poachers in the area. In mid-2018, it launched a plan to flood the area with patrol teams in an initiative called Project Stampede.
These patrol teams, totalling some 80 rangers, primarily consist of people from the local indigenous communities living in the landscape who are trained to carry out patrols, remove snares and collect data on poaching.
“The first [benefit] is for us to support the indigenous community but they also know the terrain and the forest well, ” explains Lim.
One major impediment to tiger conservation is the presence of snares that trap tigers, their prey and other wildlife. A decline in the number of prey also contributes to lower tiger numbers. From July 2016 to June 2018, a total of 167 active snares were deactivated and a further 518 inactive snares were discovered by WWF-Malaysia’s patrol teams.
*This image is copyright of its original author
“Thanks to Project Stampede we have seen a reduction of 89% of snares. That is what we can do immediately, ” says Lim.
While efforts like Project Stampede are critical to ‘stop the bleeding’, more still needs to be done.
Lim explains that support from the government, private sector and members of the public is crucial if we are to reverse the decline of tigers. She looks to the success stories of India and Nepal as inspiration.
“India suffered the same fate a long time ago. When I presented our crisis to them [during a visit], an Indian conservation director told me that that was their situation ten years back, ” says Lim. “But with political will, India now has about 50 tiger reserves in the country.”
The Times of India reported that 1,411 tigers were recorded in India in 2006 which increased to 2,967 in 2018, a positive development attributed to India’s national conservation policies.
Locally, Lim describes Ops Bersepadu Khazanah as one of the biggest wins coming out of advocacy work. The police launched the operation last September in collaboration with The Wildlife and National Parks Department (Perhilitan) to put a stop to poaching.
According to the police, each tiger can fetch up to hundreds of thousands of ringgit online and in the black market. Since its launch, wildlife trade monitoring network Traffic observed that Ops Bersepadu Khazanah has shown promising results with ‘mega seizures’, dozens of suspects detained and a money-laundering investigation initiated against a local wildlife crime group.
Among those involved in Ops Bersepadu Khazanah include the Senoi Praaq battalion consisting of Orang Asli officers who are highly skilled at tracking in the jungle.
Inspector General of Police (IGP) Datuk Seri Abdul Hamid Bador is also outspoken in protecting endangered wildlife, proposing tougher penalties, including whipping, to combat poaching and wildlife trafficking in the country. As WWF-Malaysia’s rangers do not have the enforcement powers to apprehend poachers, police action and involvement via Ops Bersepadu Khazanah greatly improves its wildlife protection efforts.
“We work with the police and share information with them if we find sightings of potential poachers, ” says Lim, who expresses appreciation to the police for their conservation measures.
Looking to the future, WWF- Malaysia hopes that tiger conservation will be included in the 12th Malaysia plan and is currently campaigning for the Wildlife Conservation Act 2010 to be further strengthened in order to send a strong message against poaching.
WWF-Malaysia is also requesting for the government to set up a National Tiger Taskforce to be chaired by the Prime Minister and for Ops Bersepadu Khazanah to be made permanent so that there is long term sustainability in the project.
“When everybody works together, there is political will - we can bend the curve. We can reverse and we can arrest the decline of tigers. But we need everybody’s collaboration to do so, ” urges Lim.
To support WWF-Malaysia’s tiger pledge, go to http://www.wwf.org.my
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Greatearth - 01-04-2020
#2,394
Anyone knows situation of Cambodia? Dr. Kerely told me she worked tigers in Cambodia 10 years ago. I don't know about now. Cambodia had a crazy dictator back in the past around in 1970s who screwed everything about his country from genocide.
There are two different situations in Southeast Asia. Indochina has problems with poverty, and villagers are just setting snares in every forest. The only different country is Thailand.
Tigers survive in Thailand since Thailand is one of the best situation country in Indochina. Thailand walked completely different than other southeast Asia since the king at that time was wise. Thailand was also only country that never colonized by France and British (French and British are well known war criminals just like Germany, Japan and other colonial countries in Western Europe). They also over hunt every animals and caused conflicts in Southeast Asia after I study about these regions in the Indochina. Many southeast Asia welcomed Japan when Japan took control on Southeast Asia, but everyone who are educated already know what Japan did. Welcoming Japan was even worse just like Ukraine suffered worst disasters after welcoming German Nazis during the WW2 when Russia took every food. However, Japan behaved better to Thailand compared to other countries in southeast Asia (They did worse to China, Vietnam, Philippine, Myanmar, native people in Taiwan, Indonesia, Korea, Dutch in Indonesia, .etc). This is also why Thailand still has very good relations with Japan after the ww2. Toyota's income decreases whenever Thai has economy problems. Thailand is also one of the most stable country in southeast Asia along with Singapore since the cold war. Unfortunatly, Singapore is too small for large animals and humans to coexist. Thai is also strong buddhism country. They treated better to animals along with Hindu in India. Thai is also has some different culture from China (Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia has many similarity with China since they have many history together while Myanmar is more close to India. Thai seems between. Malaysia and Indonesia are different=influenced into Islam culture). Thai is also the same as Greece, Italy, and Spain = country that earning majority income from tourism. While other Indochinese countries are experiencing dictator, civil war, and many other problems thanks to British, French, and Japanese. Thai walked completely different path. It is obvious that Indochinese tigers and other endangered Southeast Asian animals are doing the best in Thailand today. The problem is Vietnamese poaching gang is keep moving to Thai and other southeast Asia. They are using Mekong River and other rivers as road to cross other southeast Asia, even Thailand.
Malaysia is the same as Thailand, but much more corruption. The problem is vietnamese again. Vietnamese poaching gangs are keep moving to Malaysia. The worst problem is the most media never speak about vietnam much as they are whining every problems on China. Vietnam and Chinese are the most barbaric of all. I really wish entire world ban vietnamese and chinese to never allow them to move other country. Along with poverty going on in villagers are obviously joining poaching gangs. This is all due to corruptions in Malaysian politics. There is one funny problem. Malaysia is very diverse country. The high income people are mostly Chinese and Indian descents in Malaysia since their parents are more into educations for their kids. The problem is most southeast Asia don't like China and Chinese descents in their countries. That is why Malaysia passed some laws to make more benefits to their native Malaysian years ago. However, majority native Malaysian is more into studying Islam religion rather than educations. And native Malaysian still has better chance to enter in politics. That's why problems can happen sometimes.
Indonesia seems a little different than Malaysia besides the same religion, corrupted politicians, and palm oil. When villagers hunt/poach animals like deer and boar. Then they sell to Chinese living in their countries. Indonesia still dislike Chinese descents in their country though.
The better thing about Indonesia and Malaysia are they don't eat anything compared to Chinese/Vietnamese due to Islam rules. However, even strong belief from religion rules can't beat when it comes to survival from poverty. Especially to parents who have to raise their children. That's why poaching is going on in these two countries.
Most conservation ngo is more into ecotourism in Africa countries since majority attention is going on in Africa. It is the same as jaguar conservation is doing their best in the Pantanal region to work on ecotouism since it is the best place to see wild jaguars. The problem is is it possible to save Asian animals before everything will disappear? Southeast Asia itself is incapable.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Greatearth - 01-04-2020
Anyone knows any information on Indochinese tigers about their sizes and morphology from old records? From what I've seen, very few male Indochinese tigers reach more than 200 kg. They (Indochinese tigers from Thai, Laos) also don't look big and heavily body compared to Bengal tigers in India and Nepal. I heard central Vietnam and Cambodia had a big Indochinese tigers. However, I don't know if they reached the size of Indian/Nepalese tigers. Probably the largest individuals reached the same size as huge Bengal tigers. Abut today problem is, many forest of Southeast Asia is becoming empty because of snare problems. Indochinese tigers are probably facing prey depletion problems today?
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - peter - 01-04-2020
GREATEARTH
Here's a response to your last posts.
1 - Leopards
I don't mind discussing captive tigers and other big cats every now and then, but questions about leopards that take quite a bit of research do not belong in a thread dedicated to tigers.
The posts on Mr. Limouzin's skull were the exception. The aim of these posts was to inform Wikipedia. Those who wrote about the leopard stated the skull of Mr. Limouzin belonged to a very large male Indian leopard. This is incorrect. It was the skull of a young adult tigress.
2 - Indo-Chinese tigers
Sully recently posted about the situation in southeast Asia. Same for me. This thread. The conclusion is tigers are gone in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia.
Guate recently posted good information about the size of tigers in Thailand. A few years ago, I posted reliable records of tigers shot in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Malaysia and Myanmar.
3 - Politics
Forum rules say politics should be avoided. One reason is posts on politics are often based on opinions. This can result in incomplete information and incorrect conclusions. Another is they often result in animosity.
4 - Colonization, conservation and poaching
There's no question that colonization had few positive results for those subjected to foreign rulers. In most cases, it resulted in exploitation, abuse, slavery, poverty and a loss of dignity. Borders often were a result of arbitrary decisions. When the colonizers left, severe problems erupted. Some of these had lasting (and devastating) effects.
In most occupied countries hunting was popular. So much so, that regulation was needed. This is why conservation was on the agenda in British India in the first decades of the previous century. When the British left, the situation quickly deteriorated. When tigers had all but disappeared, India decided to act. In most other countries in southeast Asia, it took more time to get to decisions.
Although they are a protected species, tigers have been exterminated in Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia in the last two decades. In Thailand, Myanmar and Malaysia, they are close to the edge. The reason isn't habitat destruction, but snares. There are millions in southeast Asia.
Tigers are poached by professionals moving from one country to another. Trafficking is a multi-billion business. The economic growth in China in particular resulted in a strong demand for tiger products. Those involved in trafficking have the means and knowledge to satisfy the demand, whereas those opposing them struggle in both departments.
Although most tiger products end up in Vietnam and China, trafficking has a global character. Tiger skins and bones have been confiscated in many countries. As a result of the decreasing number of tigers, poachers decided to extent to lions, leopards and jaguars. Medium-sized wild cats and other rare species are on the list as well.
Poaching isn't directly related to colonization. It's a result of a deep-rooted culture on one hand and a market-orientated economy on the other. Political will, public support, knowledge, cooperation and organisation are vital ingredients of conservation. If a country is lacking in one of these departments, conservation will fail.
5 - Korea
During the Japanese occupation of Korea, tigers were hunted to extinction. Some years ago, a book about that period was published in Japan. I read a review on the site of a Korean newspaper. Good topic for a post, I think.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - GuateGojira - 01-06-2020
(01-03-2020, 10:12 AM)Sully Wrote: A new national geographic article on tigers in captivity in the United States
https://relay.nationalgeographic.com/pro...ssion=true
Great article, terrible truth. It is really sad that the tiger, the most magnificent predator on Earth, is just relay to a simple "clown" for entertaiment and is a victime of abuse.
Little countried, like Guatemala for example, now have laws that forbide the trade and use of exotic animals for public shows (at least...), so what happen with USA? It seems that the "business" is too important that the protection of this species is not in the priority of the goverment. Really sad.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - GuateGojira - 01-06-2020
(12-25-2019, 02:50 AM)Greatearth Wrote: I wish users in wildfact speak about different tiger subspecies such as the Chinese tiger, Indochinese tiger, Malayan tiger, Sumatran tiger, and extinct tiger subspecies instead of keep talking about the same topic on the Siberian tiger: their size, why they became smaller in size today, their populations, interaction with brown bears, and other things about Siberian tigers. Anyway, I have some topic to discuss on the northern Bengal tigers. I am dubious about those tigers are really larger than central Bengal tigers. I think it is just northern Bengal tiger fanboys are spreading rumor on those tigers are ultimate tigers. I saw fanboys were saying single northern Bengal tiger in Terai and Assam can take down the largest known prehistoric felidae, short faced bear, and even asiatic elephant. However, only reliable source of those tigers (Terai and Assam) are the Smithsonian tiger project in Chitwan. And two largest tigers, Sauraha (M105) and M126 were around 227~272 kg (272 kg was something inside of stomach). Sauraha seems to be 261 kg with empty stomach when he measured the last time, but he was bottomed 227 kg when he measured in 1974-1975. Sauraha was 198 cm from heady to body, 310 cm including his tail from what I know. He was similar in size to other largest tigers in Kanha, Bandhavgarh, ...etc. Assam tigers seemed larger in pictures because of their belly. The same as people think Wagdoh is the largest because he has massive body. However, I don't believe Assam tigers are longer and taller. They just have bulky and fat body since they are living in good areas and huge prey (Kaziranga and other places in Assam are the only places in India that allowing rangers to shot poachers). Northern Bengal tigers seemed to be larger if we add old data, but those data can't be trusted 100% if we compared to measurement from modern days by scientists. And many of huge size tigers were probably gorged when they were hunted/measured. Their overall sizes on length and height are similar to the largest tigers in other parts of India. Even Bachelor of Powalgarh was 323 cm long. However, I don't know if it was over curve or between the pegs. The measured data of todays' Himalayan tigers in Bhutan is no larger than tigers in central India. Thus, northern Bengal tigers are obviously similar in size as tigers in Bandhavgarh, Tadoba, Kanha, ...etc.
I don't know about tigers in western India in Ranthambore and Sariska. They look slim and lighter, but I don't know about length and height.
Indochinese tigers and Malayan tigers seemed very interesting too. Even though many Indochina to Malay Peninsula are similar rainforest, but they seemed to have different body sizes and appearance. However, I don't really have any old/today data of these tigers.
Actually, I have posted many information about the other tiger subspecies, here is a summary of one of my last posts with some modifications, males only (for the moment):
The Caspian tigers are calculated to be as large as the Bengal ones, but the few skulls available suggest a smaller size. The only three weights from males shows an average figure of 197 kg (range: 170 - 240 kg). One skull is said to have measured 385 mm in total length (Heptner & Sludskii, 1992) but a follow investigation suggested that the other measurements presented shows a specimen much more smaller and that probably the skull was measured over the bone, saldly the skull is lost forever (Mazák, 2013).
The Indochinese tiger was about the same than the Caspian tiger, if not slightly longer based in the skulls available. The biggest skull from a Caspian tiger was of 369 mm while a new skull apparently from Malaysia (based in DNA) was of 370 mm. In the weight department very few figures are available in litterature, with just three males: one of 173.3 kg (Pocock, 1939), other of 182 kg (Mazák, 2013) and a big one of 259 kg (Bazé, 1957). Modern records are available thanks to the scientists working in Thailand at this moment, and based in 4 males (with 5 captures) the average weight is of 182 kg (range: 164 - 209 kg), about the same body mass than modern Amur tigers. So using the modern records plus the old records we got an average figure of 193.5 kg (n=8, range: 164 - 259 kg). For details check this topic, specially topic 68 and 81: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-indo-chinese-and-malayan-tigers?page=5
The South China tiger is the smallest of the mainland tigers, if we take them as a single subspecies, and only lives in captivity now. Slagth et al. (2005) present a a list of captive specimens and the males from this population had an average weight of 130.7 kg (n=13, no range). A list of wild specimens from hunting records that I collected shows an aveage of 152 kg (n=8, range: 108 - 190 kg). The biggest specimens seems to be from the northern area and the smallest ones from the southern, se there was a cline in the weight of this population. I don't have figures from the tigers that are in semi-wild status in South Africa, but I guess that they are heavier than those in China zoos and maybe close to those from the old wild records.
Finally, the only other subspecies/population from which we have body mass records is the Sumatran tiger, the smallest tiger in modern days. Using modern scientific records we have an average weight for males of 127 kg (n=4, range: 98-148 kg). That sample also includes a male of 75 kg, it says tha was adult and in good health, but certainly there is an error in that figure: The smallest captive adult male recorded by Slaght et al. (2005; in Barlow et al. (2009=) is of 91 kg and came from a sample of 21 speciments, and also Mazák (2013) which recorded weights of wild and capivte specimens reported that the smallest male was of 100 kg. So the figure of "75 kg" came probably when the animals was first captured and obviously not in a good shape; other posibility is that there was a typo but I don't hink so. Using old hunting records, the average weight for Sumatran male tigers is of 119.3 kg (n=6, range: 104 - 140 kg), and using all the records for this subspecies we got to 122.8 kg (n=10, range: 104 - 148 kg). There is a record of a male of 180 kg but if that is accurate it will be an exceptional male and should not be included in the list. Also @"peter" measured a skull from a male of 350 mm in greatest length, which suggest that in the past big males existed in the island. There is also other record from a captured male of 130 kg posted here by a member but as we don't have the main source of it, I did not included the records in the modern records.
About the Malayan tigers, we don't have reliable weights from the wild in the old records. I found only one records of a male of 120 kg, but other news reports shows males of up to 170 kg, which will be not out of question. The figures showed by a report on Malayan tiger conservation as just estimations and reach a maximum of 130 kg. Slagth et al, (2005; in Barlow et al. (2009)) present a list of weights of "Indochinese - Corbetti" tigers but in fact this weights are from Malayan tigers in captivity, the average weight for males is 120.6 kg (n=6, range: 109 - 132 kg), this is closer to the Sumatran tigers than to the mainland ones. Reliable measurements from old records give average lengths as large as the South China and Indochinese tigers (Locke, 1954), and the skulls reported are big, with an average greatest length of 339 mm - n=4 (J. H. Mazák, 2008) and now we have a new skull of 370 mm from this area (based in DNA). This suggest that in the past the Malayan tigers were as big as South China tigers (average greatest skull length of 334.7 mm (n=10, range: 318 - 348) and in some case even as big as the Indochinese tigers. I had not calculated yet the average weight of this population based in the skull size, but certainly if we use the average figures from modern captive specimens, we will get a very low average weight for the tigers species, a one that will not reflect the real weight of the species in time.
For Java and Bali tigers, the situation is worst. We only have two weights for Javanese tigers and none for the Bali tigers. For Javanese male tigers, we have one wild male of 141 kg and other from captivity of 110 kg (Slagth et al., 2005; Mazák, 2013). The average of these two specimens will be 125.5 kg, which is slighly more than those from Sumatra overall and this is accurate as the skulls from the male tigers in Java are bigger than those from the other two islands. However, the weight of 141 kg belongs to an animal with a skull length of 331 mm, which is just a little over the average reported of 321.3 mm in the study of Mazák and Groves (2006) that also included inmature specimens. Also, the biggest skull measured for this subspecies is of 349 mm (Mazák, 2013) and he even concluded that based in the skulls, this tiger population was probably as big as the tigers in South China! Using the condylobasal length of several specimens I calculated an average weight of 134.5 kg (n=10, range, 110 - 158 kg), which I guess will be probably closer to the real average in the wild. For Bali tigers we don't have any weight, Mazák (1981) estimated a weight between 90 - 100 kg, but I calculated an average weight of 112.8 kg (n=3, range: 107 - 123), but we must take in count that Mazák did not knew the large skull of 301.5 mm in greatest length reported by Buzás and Farkas (1996). Also, my estimations based in the condylobasal length are using only captive specimens, if we use wild and captive specimens together the average figures will be:
* Java male tigers: 141.8 kg - n=10 - range: 116 - 166 kg.
* Bali male tigers: 118.9 kg - n=3 - range: 113 - 130 kg.
This may be a little more reliable figures, by I dediced to use the captive ones as the result obtained with the male of 141 kg was closer to the original (I got 144 kg with that specimen with condylobasal length of 294 mm.). However is interesting to see that the largest Bali male tiger, which had a skull size of the about the same length than the large jaguar males from the Pantanal, got a similar calculated weight.
We can try to estimate an overall average weight for the males of the species Panthera tigris, but we will need to use captive specimens and isometric calculations from skulls to fill the holes. Taking the risk, this is what I got:
* Bengal tiger: 200 kg - n=166 - range: 97 - 272 kg.
* Amur tiger: 203 kg - n=33 - range: 155 - 254 kg.
* Caspian tiger: 197 kg - n=3 - range: 170 - 240 kg.
* Indochinese tiger: 193.5 kg - n=8 - range: 164 - 259 kg.
* South China tiger: 152 kg - n=8 - range: 108 - 190 kg.
* Malayan tiger: 120.6 kg - n=6 - range: 109 - 132 kg - captivity.
* Sumatran tiger: 123 kg - n=10 - range: 104 - 148 kg.
* Java tiger: 125.5 kg - n=2 - range: 110 - 141 kg - one wild, one captive.
* Bali tiger: 113 kg - n=3 - range: 107 - 123 kg - isometrically calcullated.
** Overall average: 158.6 kg - n=239 - range: 97 - 272 kg.
This figure is pratically the same reported by Yamaguchi et al. (2009) and Kitchener & Yamagichi (2010), which says that the average weight for the male tiger at "species level" is c.160 kg. Now, remember that this list have many assumtions, specifically in the Malayan and Bali tigers. I used only to two known males for the Java tigers in order to use only true weights, but if I use the figure of 134.5 kg that I obtained from 10 skulls the average for male tigers overall will be 159.6 kg, practically the same figure with no diference. Now, if we use strictly only weights and only wild specimens, which will exclude the Malayan tigers (as they are captive), the Java tigers (as only one is wild) and the Bali tigers (as are calculated) from the sample, the average weight for male tigers as a species will be 178.1 kg (n=228, range: 97 - 272 kg).
About the Bengal tigers, I am of the idea that there is little variation amoung the populations in the subcontinent, with some top figures in the north region, here is the summary of all my sample from tigers in the Indian subcontinent at 12/2019:
Madya Pradesh, Central India: 201 kg - n=61 - range: 160 - 255 kg.
Karnataka, Southwest India 196 kg - n=12 - range: 159 - 227 kg.
Hyderabad, Southeast India 182 kg - n= 9 - range: 150 - 203 kg.
Rajasthan, Northwest India 243 kg - n= 3 - range: 220 - 268 kg.
Northeast India 207 kg - n= 51 - range: 150 - 256 kg.
Terai, North India 200 kg - n=17 - range: 161 - 259 kg.
Chitwan, Nepal 224 kg - n= 7 - range: 180 - 272 kg.
The Sundarbans 123 kg - n=6 - range: 97 - 172 kg.
As we can, there is some diference between populations. Body measurements also do not show a great variation, all of them been about the 190 cm in head body on average, but take care with body measurements, because a long tiger can be more slender than a short tiger, that is why the Sauraha male M-105 that had only 197 cm in head-body was larger than the male Darra T-03 from Nagarahole with 204 cm in head-body, as the Nepalese male weighed 261 kg empty and the Indian male weighed 227 kg empty.
About the Bachelor of Powalgar, the measurement of 323 cm was "over the curves", Mazák (1981) estimate it at about 310 cm "between pegs". However the total length alone is a bad estimator of size, as we must know the size of the tail. For example, the biggest tiger ever is not the longest, Brander (1927) measured this giant cat in Kanha with a head-body of 221 cm, but its total length was less than 305 cm because the tail was very short. Judging by the picture, the Bachelor of Powalgarh was also a giant and probably matched the large tiger of Brander.
About the tigers in Ranthambore, as far I know there are only 3 adult males captured, but check what Dr Jhala says:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sadly, he did not provided measurements or weights. Now, these are the only figures that I have from the tigers in that region, confirmed by the authors of the articles:
*This image is copyright of its original author
I hope this can cover all your questions, for the moment.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - peter - 01-07-2020
GUATE
Excellent work, as always. Appreciated. When I'm done with the indexes, I will post a number of tables on the size of tigers (and other big cats). These tables are different from the previous tables in that they're based on reliable information I found in books. I'll also post a few tables with information on the size of captive big cats. Before posting, I'll contact you.
Jhala
A few weeks ago, YV Jhala, indirectly, featured in a debate about a large male tiger in northern India. As a result of the debate, Shadow decided to contact an organisation in India. He ended up talking to Jhala. Jhala told him he had no information about the tiger in northern India, but said he would try to find the man who weighed the tiger in northern India.
Jhala said he never collared tigers in northern India. His trade was tigers in central India. In your post, I read Jhala was in Ranthambore. The question is if Ranthambore is considered as a part of central India?
Jhala, as you know, told Shadow the heaviest tiger he weighed was 280-290 kg. (618-640 pounds) on a full stomach. I know he was referring to a Kanha tiger, but he also said the measurements of tigers in Ranthambore (referring to your post) were among the largest in India. This means he collared tigers in Ranthambore as well. The question is if he, regarding the weight mentioned, only referred to the Kanha tiger. Maybe you can find out a bit more.
Northern India
The information I have strongly suggest that tigers shot in northern India and Nepal were among the largest wild big cats in the period 1870-1940. This conclusion was confirmed in documents published after 1970. Some individuals in central and, in particular, northeastern India can be very large, but at the level of averages tigers in northern India and Nepal most probably still top the lists. By a margin, I think.
The problem is a lack of good information. We know a bit about the size of tigers in southwestern, central and northeastern India, but there's, as far as I know, no document with good information about the length and weight of adult tigers in northern India. My guess is a document of that nature isn't going to be published any time soon.
Proposals
Size, for obvious reasons (tigers really are walking the edge), is not on the agenda of today's biologists. If we want to find out a bit more, therefore, we have to do it ourselves. My first proposal is to start a kind of task force. If you have time, Guate, you could head it. The first goal is to collect reliable data. The second goal is to get to good conclusions at the level of species, subspecies and regions.
If we want good information about the size of Indian tigers today, we have no option but to contact wildlife organisations and biologists working in India. As we want to prevent chaos (posters contacting biologists all the time), my second proposal is to appoint one of us as our contact (ambassador). As Shadow is both interested and able to open just about every door, he seems most suited. I'll talk to him soon.
RE: ON THE EDGE OF EXTINCTION - A - THE TIGER (Panthera tigris) - Sully - 01-07-2020
In a first, IISER completes genome sequencing of wild tiger
Bhopal: For the first time, the genome sequencing of a wild tiger has been completed in the country. An IISER-Bhopal team has completed genome and transcriptome sequencing and analysis of a wild tiger for the first time in the country. Sequencing was done from the sample of a man-eater tiger, Bandhu, who was brought at Van Vihar two years ago. Genome sequencing is a way to figure out the order of DNA nucleotides, or bases, in a genome.
Their study was also recently published in international journal 'Nature Scientific Reports 2019'. The associate professor, department of biological sciences, Vineet K. Sharma, said the genomic studies on this highly endangered species are much needed since its population has rapidly declined in the past due to human interventions.
He said that tiger is the largest feild species and has diverse morphological and behavioural adaptations required for its survival and predation. “To study the genetic basis of such adaptations in tiger, our group generated the first genomic sequence of an Indian tiger,” said Sharma. “As we have done it now, further studies will be possible within country itself,” he added.
“An understanding of the genetic basis of its phenotypic adaptations may help in designing more effective strategies for conservation and breeding of tiger,,” said associate professor, Sharma. Other members of the team were Parul Mittal, Shubham K Jaiswal, Nagarjun Vijay and Rituja Saxena.
Sharma claimed that they have even found the correct genome sequencing in their study. “The tiger genome had been sequenced earlier by a Chinese group, but we noted that the genome assembly (PanTig1.0) consisted of several erroneous nucleotide substitutions, and thus it was giving wrong information. We have now corrected the study,” said Sharma.
He added that usage of the earlier assembly led to several incorrect results in previous studies. “We developed an assembly error correction tool ‘SeqBug’, and corrected almost one million bases in the tiger genome assembly, which map to 4,472 genes,” said Sharma.
The team deciphered the genetic basis of the evolution of tiger's lineage using the corrected genome which were further validated by the re-sequenced genome and transcriptome of the tiger.