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+----- Thread: Lions: Knowledge sharing (/topic-lions-knowledge-sharing)
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Lions: Knowledge sharing - Charan Singh - 01-25-2019
Good Day Everyone,
I'm new here, and I have followed few threads and found these very interesting.
I came here having fews questions, and reading the threads raised more questions for me.
This can a thread about the questions about Lion behaviour and their overall lives.
First question:
There are instances when a lioness mates with a lion from outside the ruling pride. What happens when ruling coalition lions find out about these sneaked mating? Have there been any recorded or observed cases where the coalition lions have found out about these mating or what happens to litter born out of these mating, do coalition lions accept them?
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - Tr1x24 - 02-02-2023
(01-25-2019, 05:42 PM)Charan Singh Wrote: First question:
There are instances when a lioness mates with a lion from outside the ruling pride. What happens when ruling coalition lions find out about these sneaked mating? Have there been any recorded or observed cases where the coalition lions have found out about these mating or what happens to litter born out of these mating, do coalition lions accept them?
Few years late, but just now i found about this thread.
As for question, as far as i know, nothing happens, as ruling coalition also would mate with that females.
For example, infertile, 6th Kambula female in 2020/21 was under control of Bboys, but she mated with neighbouring N.Avoca coalition and OM aswell, Bboys where prob aware of that, but if she had cubs, Bboys would accept it as their, as in their eyes they think its their, because they also mated with her.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - Tr1x24 - 02-02-2023
@veritas to your questions :
"Like... a male lion's father doesn't protect his children?
(I saw someone on another forum accusing lions of wanting only territory, food, and mating, saying they had no interest in protecting their children. Of course I don't agree, ex...Makkulu has seen her child be generous!)"
Males do protect and care about the cubs, but not to same degree as females, males firstly defend their territory, if they are defeated, but survive, they just leave their territory, pride and cubs behind.
They will not stay with pride and cubs anymore to defend them, unlike females, who will fight and die defending their cubs from those new males.
"For example, is it difficult or normal for the Liones to hunt buffalo?
(I often saw pictures of Mapogos hunting and eating buffalo, so I thought it was natural for the Liones Association to hunt buffalo.
But I saw someone talking about mr t's aggression and hunting buffalo or hippopotamus is proof of that.
So I wondered if the buffalo hunt, however male union, was very brave or a good hunter.
Also, it doesn't make sense to read someone's accusation that male lions don't hunt, but only steal the food of Pride.
This is because the Mapogos has always seen them settle their meals with their own game.)"
Its normal for lions to hunt buffalos, but it is difficult because its their largest prey they hunt, and very dangerous, lion can be easily killed by buffalo if he makes mistake.
Usually, males are more successful in hunting buffalos, because of their strenght, even 1 male can kill full adult buffalo, but females also can do it, especially if they are experienced and its more of them in a group.
Male lions do hunt when they need to hunt, even help their pride, they are better hunters then females, narative that females are better hunters is wrong. But when males are territorial, they often "steal" kills from their prides and other lions, because they can do it, as they are in charge, its easier to steal a kill then hunt.
Feel free to ask what you are interested in.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - BA0701 - 02-02-2023
(02-02-2023, 10:28 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @veritas to your questions :
"Like... a male lion's father doesn't protect his children?
(I saw someone on another forum accusing lions of wanting only territory, food, and mating, saying they had no interest in protecting their children. Of course I don't agree, ex...Makkulu has seen her child be generous!)"
Males do protect and care about the cubs, but not to same degree as females, males firstly defend their territory, if they are defeated, but survive, they just leave their territory, pride and cubs behind.
They will not stay with pride and cubs anymore to defend them, unlike females, who will fight and die defending their cubs from those new males.
"For example, is it difficult or normal for the Liones to hunt buffalo?
(I often saw pictures of Mapogos hunting and eating buffalo, so I thought it was natural for the Liones Association to hunt buffalo.
But I saw someone talking about mr t's aggression and hunting buffalo or hippopotamus is proof of that.
So I wondered if the buffalo hunt, however male union, was very brave or a good hunter.
Also, it doesn't make sense to read someone's accusation that male lions don't hunt, but only steal the food of Pride.
This is because the Mapogos has always seen them settle their meals with their own game.)"
Its normal for lions to hunt buffalos, but it is difficult because its their largest prey they hunt, and very dangerous, lion can be easily killed by buffalo if he makes mistake.
Usually, males are more successful in hunting buffalos, because of their strenght, even 1 male can kill full adult buffalo, but females also can do it, especially if they are experienced and its more of them in a group.
Male lions do hunt when they need to hunt, even help their pride, they are better hunters then females, narative that females are better hunters is wrong. But when males are territorial, they often "steal" kills from their prides and other lions, because they can do it, as they are in charge, its easier to steal a kill then hunt.
Feel free to ask what you are interested in.
@Tr1x24 Great additions to this thread my friend, maybe it can see some life breathed into it.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - Tr1x24 - 02-02-2023
(02-02-2023, 11:04 PM)BA0701 Wrote: @Tr1x24 Great additions to this thread my friend, maybe it can see some life breathed into it.
It could be good thread for behavior discussion, not to spam other threads with it, as for example most recent discussion about when the male becomes/is territorial.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - afortich - 02-02-2023
Very convenient thread for general questions that don't fit any other thread.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - BigLion39 - 02-03-2023
So another question regarding cubs that are born into a pride from a lioness who mated with an intruding male. So we can really never know if cubs are actually the pride males offspring because of this? I read about this all the time. Can't some Reserves or national parks start some sort of genetic documenting of the lions? IMHO it would be a smart move.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - Tr1x24 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 11:58 AM)BigLion39 Wrote: So another question regarding cubs that are born into a pride from a lioness who mated with an intruding male. So we can really never know if cubs are actually the pride males offspring because of this? I read about this all the time. Can't some Reserves or national parks start some sort of genetic documenting of the lions? IMHO it would be a smart move.
Well, most females dont do this, especially if ruling coalition is stable/strong.
This usually happens in unstable times, in takeover phases, or when multiple coalitions compete for territory.
So i dont think that this happens too often.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - veritas - 02-03-2023
Thank you, dear friend!
I was deeply moved by the sizanani and skkoro YouTube of thanda impi, which was famous for lame.
They showed a rare sight in the ordinary world of lions!
The sight of knocking down a buffalo or giraffe alone and handing out meals to brothers who hurt their legs really made me cry.
I'm sure mapogos. majins etc...Many
I study lions and like them, but I feel that the lives of sizanani and skkoro are a little different.
If you look at the video of them and dread rock hunting alone, it's amazing, but the average other lion is not that capable of hunting?
The two lions, Thanda Impi, survived alone and reappeared, surprising them, reversing their expectations that they would always have died.
But these days, I'm reading several forums with a translator, and people are discussing that they're going to die soon after seeing lions falling alone or becoming nomadic. I'm confused...
Can you explain how difficult it is for a lion to be nomadic or survive alone?
And do lions feel sadness, loneliness, and compassion?
Looking at sizanani and skko, which were a little different from ruthless mapogo, I thought there might be something like sympathy for lions.
I am known as the wildest breed of three dogs (not a human-improved breed of dog, but a natural breed that originated on Korean soil, and I am known to hunt myself and have a very smart breed or personality. be noted for one's lack of social skills It is the ancestor of the Japanese Shiba dog.) I raised a dog. He is the most dominant and strong dog, and the second dog to be raised is a weak and small dog that was raised by abandoned dogs.
I even saw the weak little dogs yielding the meat they were eating.
The strong dog always tried to protect the weaker dogs and even let the little dog take the meat from his mouth.
However, this strong dominant dog always tried to drag me there when he met a dog that was always bigger and at least twice as big as himself, and even if a regular-sized dog or small dog bothered him and bit him, he ran away or avoided his seat.
However, when I saw a big, fierce barking dog, he never obeyed and not tried to rush back.
The dog had no interest in fighting, but he always showed mercy for handing out food.
It was an amazing life!
(Animal behavior expert said, "I've been teaching my dog for more than 25 years, but compared to this breed characteristic, I've never seen my dog's sociality and personality before," adding, "It's special."
Then is the case of sizanani and skkoro a little special like my dog?
I think animals also feel emotions.
What do your friends think?
And one more thing I'm curious about...
I remember all the videos and pictures of mapogo before he died. Even when makhulu was over 13 years old, she fought and in the last photo she looked not very sick or skinny with pretty boy.
They were also pictured hunting and dining together.
At this point I start to feel confused.
I don't mean to compare but I happened to see Avoca Dark Mane's buffalo injury and I saw photos and videos before he died.
It was so sad, pitiful, and strange.
I thought he was a DM from Majingilane but I think he's a different lion with the same name!
Because in the majingilane forum, the members all said they died in 2017-2018.
Their ages are abstract, but I think they are about 12 years old, so it's hard to understand why they look so skinny and aging.
The average lifespan of wild lions is 10 to 15 years old, and they already looked remarkably senile years before they died.
Why is there a big difference in aging even at the same age?
Even if it's not tuberculosis, somehow it's strange that the aging is too fast.
Mr T would have been over ten years old when he died, but at the time he looked neither senile nor skinny.
Is it a matter of genes?
I feel extremely sad and guilty every time these beautiful and precious lions return to part of nature... It may be bad for my mental health, but I can't get out of it because I fell in love with lions.
What about friends from other countries who like lions?
Does everyone just coolly accept death as nature?
I am ashamed that I am the only one who seems to fall into depression and tears, but I am not attached to any one group, but I suffer from the old, sick, skinny appearance of all lions, death by humans, and poaching.
Is it prohibited to express the sadness of lions here? I am not familiar with the rules of the forum.
I hope this long article is translated properly, and I thank everyone and write it from afar with love!!
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - Tr1x24 - 02-03-2023
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: Thank you, dear friend!
I was deeply moved by the sizanani and skkoro YouTube of thanda impi, which was famous for lame.
They showed a rare sight in the ordinary world of lions!
The sight of knocking down a buffalo or giraffe alone and handing out meals to brothers who hurt their legs really made me cry.
I'm sure mapogos. majins etc...Many
I study lions and like them, but I feel that the lives of sizanani and skkoro are a little different.
If you look at the video of them and dread rock hunting alone, it's amazing, but the average other lion is not that capable of hunting?
As in any "skill", some lions are better at hunting then others.
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: Can you explain how difficult it is for a lion to be nomadic or survive alone?
Depends of situation.
If lion is too young he will have problems, as he is inexperienced and not fully grown, same as if lion is too old, as age is starting to take its tool.
But adult and prime lions should have no problem surviving alone, lion can hunt for himself since around 2 years of age.
Problem with lone nomadic life in most cases is not ability to hunt, yet danger of other lions, most nomadic lions die from other lions, and not starvation.
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: And do lions feel sadness, loneliness, and compassion?
Prob yes to some extent, but its not much known on that topic.
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: Then is the case of sizanani and skkoro a little special like my dog?
I think animals also feel emotions.
What do your friends think?
Not sure, its more that Sizanani and Skorro, although unrelated and where fairly short together, have a strong bond, so they stayed close to each others.
I mean, Skorro didn't specifically hunt for injured Sizanani, he hunt for himself aswell, but Sizanani was around so he got the share aswell.
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: The average lifespan of wild lions is 10 to 15 years old, and they already looked remarkably senile years before they died.
Why is there a big difference in aging even at the same age?
No, average lifespan of wild (not captive) male lion is only around 10 yrs of age.
Making to 12 yrs of age as wild male lion is quite a success, and past that, to 13-15 yrs of age is very rare.
Captive male lion can make to 15+ yrs of age without a problem.
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: Mr T would have been over ten years old when he died, but at the time he looked neither senile nor skinny.
Is it a matter of genes?
Yes, not all lions, just like any other animals and humans, age the same way. It also depends if lion is/was injured or has any disease's.
(02-03-2023, 02:40 PM)veritas Wrote: I feel extremely sad and guilty every time these beautiful and precious lions return to part of nature... It may be bad for my mental health, but I can't get out of it because I fell in love with lions.
What about friends from other countries who like lions?
Does everyone just coolly accept death as nature?
I am ashamed that I am the only one who seems to fall into depression and tears, but I am not attached to any one group, but I suffer from the old, sick, skinny appearance of all lions, death by humans, and poaching.
Is it prohibited to express the sadness of lions here? I am not familiar with the rules of the forum.
All living things wil die eventually, just like me and you aswell, so death is part of nature.
Lions themselves need to kill other animals to live, often eating them alive, they show no mercy, so it goes both ways.
Watching animals suffer and die, for animal lovers, is hard, but you need to accept thats the part of nature and dont stress about it, otherwise it might affect your mental health.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - veritas - 02-05-2023
Kind brother! It's an honor to answer my troublesome question!
I'm not used to using this place, so I've been wondering what button I have to press to register my answer for a few days and how I can write a new one.?
I am very sorry for sending you my appreciation late!!??
I wonder the standard of euthanasia for wild lions.
I read that one lion was euthanized to stop his suffering.
I understand that human intervention is minimal, but I am sometimes confused.
For example...
There are too many videos of mapogos being eaten alive on YouTube in the past.
The video of Mr.t and kinkytail's death is still very widespread with suggestive phrases.
But a security officer in the past said he shot more than 15 lions wounded by mapogos to stop suffering.
Does euthanasia have a discriminatory treatment even for lions that obviously have no further chance of recovery?
It's not easy to understand that someone has to suffer and suffer until their lives are cut short by euthanasia.
I'm following tintswalo and redrods these days and they're caught in a trap.
The noose was cut off and released, but no treatment was received, and Nclie, who was originally the most dominant, was ostracized in the group.
Shouldn't a lion injured by a human be helped?
I don't know the structure of the African safari.
All accommodations look luxurious and expensive, but since they are privately owned, is there no punishment for treating lions any way?
Lions are known as endangered wildlife.
In Korea, if you raise a lion or buy a trophy decoration, you should go to jail immediately! It's a crime!
But when I see what's going on in Sabisand and Manyerity, I think I'm often caught in a trap and poached.
Doesn't the government have any legal authority over this land?
What should I read to learn about the structure of South Africa's lion safari?
If it's privately owned land, why don't you make efforts to prevent poaching, such as iron fences?
It is inhumane not to treat a poor lion injured by a human being when he would make a fortune watching the lion.
Are antibiotics or disinfectants extremely expensive there? Do they leave the medicine because it is too expensive?
You can buy antibiotics or disinfectant spray in Korea for only 1 to 3 dollars.It's not even a day's worth. At least three days' worth of capacity.
I saw several Lodge websites of Savi Sand and I was so surprised to see the accommodation fee. With my salary, I don't think I'll have a chance to see these beautiful lions in person until I die.I'm sad.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - Tr1x24 - 02-05-2023
(02-05-2023, 01:55 PM)veritas Wrote: Does euthanasia have a discriminatory treatment even for lions that obviously have no further chance of recovery?
It depends from reserve to reserve, Kruger policy is to not intervene, but some private reserve do euthanize if they see that animal cant survive.
(02-05-2023, 01:55 PM)veritas Wrote: Shouldn't a lion injured by a human be helped?
Kruger do help if lion is injured by human cause.
(02-05-2023, 01:55 PM)veritas Wrote: Doesn't the government have any legal authority over this land?
What should I read to learn about the structure of South Africa's lion safari?
If it's privately owned land, why don't you make efforts to prevent poaching, such as iron fences?
It is inhumane not to treat a poor lion injured by a human being when he would make a fortune watching the lion.
They have Kruger anti poaching units, but land is too vast to be safe from poaching at all time, incidents do happen.
(02-05-2023, 01:55 PM)veritas Wrote: Are antibiotics or disinfectants extremely expensive there? Do they leave the medicine because it is too expensive?
You can buy antibiotics or disinfectant spray in Korea for only 1 to 3 dollars.It's not even a day's worth. At least three days' worth of capacity.
Kruger policy is to not treat lions if injury/disease is not cause by humans, unlike Masai Mara and few other reserve, where they do treat lions.
(02-05-2023, 01:55 PM)veritas Wrote: I saw several Lodge websites of Savi Sand and I was so surprised to see the accommodation fee. With my salary, I don't think I'll have a chance to see these beautiful lions in person until I die.I'm sad.
Yep, its quite expensive, but its their buisness.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - afortich - 02-05-2023
Quote:With my salary, I don't think I'll have a chance to see these beautiful lions in person until I die.I'm sad.
Fortunately, you @veritas now have this forum that keeps you update as good as possible.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - BigLion39 - 02-06-2023
(02-03-2023, 12:31 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: This usually happens in unstable times, in takeover phases, or when multiple coalitions compete for territory.
Doesn't this happen when the prides get too big before the lionesses actually break off, if they really ever do. And there are males, for example, Ololparpit, he was well known for hanging on the fringes of territories, listening for no signs of males and mating females from other prides. He finally got caught by Kaka and Maridadi when his luck ran out. So if those lionesss get prego, we would think their offspring would be from resident males.
RE: Lions: Knowledge sharing - veritas - 02-18-2023
Hello, friends with lots of knowledge, thank you!
Every time I saw lions on YouTube, I saw them hitting their hind legs on the ground.
What does this mean?
Is it an act of marking that place as their territory?
Is it the dominant behavior, for example, to spray urine on trees?