Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines

Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Printable Version

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RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Vodmeister - 02-11-2017

*This image is copyright of its original author

The Other Saber-tooths: Scimitar-tooth Cats of the Western Hemisphere

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 02-21-2017

A new update version of the Ngandong tiger, credit to Roman Uchytel.

http://prehistoric-fauna.com/Ngandong-tiger

*This image is copyright of its original author

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - brotherbear - 02-21-2017

Panthera tigris tigris = 150 kg to 261 kg ( 331 pounds to 575 pounds ).
Panthera tigris soloensis = 180 kg to 368 kg ( 397 pounds to 811 pounds ).
*I will edit and add - just to put this into persepective: I just watched WWE Raw - The Big Show ( Paul Wight ) vs the monster Braun Strowman. The Big Show weighs 383 pounds ( 174 kg ) and Braun Strowman weighs in at 385 pounds ( 175 kg ). Their combined weight is 768 pounds ( 348 kg ).

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Pckts - 03-09-2017

I wanted to post my images from the Museum of Natural History here since it's probably a better location for them.

Notice the Panthera Atrox Jaw or Naegele's Jaguar jaw compared to the Short Face Bear's

*This image is copyright of its original author

But the Skull of this Short faced bear was absolutely massive and larger than the skull of the Panthera Atrox Skeleton's Skull

*This image is copyright of its original author

Smilidon Fatalis- Proportionally Long but not particularly tall compared to the American lion

*This image is copyright of its original author

American Lion "Panthera Atrox" - Very Tall and long, probably not as proportionally long as Fatalis, but overall it was at least as long if not, longer.

*This image is copyright of its original author

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Ngala - 03-09-2017

@Pckts City of the Museum?

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Pckts - 03-09-2017

(03-09-2017, 01:59 AM)Ngala Wrote: @Pckts City of the Museum?

In LA, right next to the tar pits. Highly recommend it, I have more pictures in the "vacations and holidays" thread.

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - epaiva - 03-17-2017

(03-09-2017, 12:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: I wanted to post my images from the Museum of Natural History here since it's probably a better location for them.

Notice the Panthera Atrox Jaw or Naegele's Jaguar jaw compared to the Short Face Bear's

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

But the Skull of this Short faced bear was absolutely massive and larger than the skull of the Panthera Atrox Skeleton's Skull

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Smilidon Fatalis- Proportionally Long but not particularly tall compared to the American lion

*This image is copyright of its original author

American Lion "Panthera Atrox" - Very Tall and long, probably not as proportionally long as Fatalis, but overall it was at least as long if not, longer.

*This image is copyright of its original author

@Pckts

Very nice pictures, do you know the measurements of Panthera atrox skeleton? Where did you take the pictures?

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Pckts - 03-17-2017

(03-17-2017, 12:02 AM)epaiva Wrote:
(03-09-2017, 12:18 AM)Pckts Wrote: I wanted to post my images from the Museum of Natural History here since it's probably a better location for them.

Notice the Panthera Atrox Jaw or Naegele's Jaguar jaw compared to the Short Face Bear's

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

But the Skull of this Short faced bear was absolutely massive and larger than the skull of the Panthera Atrox Skeleton's Skull

*This image is copyright of its original author

*This image is copyright of its original author

Smilidon Fatalis- Proportionally Long but not particularly tall compared to the American lion

*This image is copyright of its original author

American Lion "Panthera Atrox" - Very Tall and long, probably not as proportionally long as Fatalis, but overall it was at least as long if not, longer.

*This image is copyright of its original author

@Pckts

Very nice pictures, do you know the measurements of Panthera atrox skeleton? Where did you take the pictures?

Unfortunately measurement weren't given, but it was very large and impressive.
The museum location is in LA, is the Natural History Museum.
Here's the link to the thread and more images from there
http://wildfact.com/forum/topic-museum-of-natural-history

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - Ngala - 04-13-2017

Extremely interesting!! If anyone have the article, please send me.

Skeletal trauma reflects hunting behaviour in extinct sabre-tooth cats and dire wolves Brown, Balisi, Shaw & Van Valkenburgh, 2017

*This image is copyright of its original author

Figure 4 : Density/heat map depictions of traumatic and chronic pathology centroids across a S. fatalis and C. dirus hindlimb.

Abstract:
"Skeletal-injury frequency and distribution are likely to reflect hunting behaviour in predatory vertebrates and might therefore differ between species with distinct hunting modes. Two Pleistocene predators from the Rancho La Brea asphalt seeps, the sabre-tooth cat, Smilodon fatalis, and dire wolf, Canis dirus, represent ambush and pursuit predators, respectively. On the basis of a collection of over 1,900 pathological elements, the frequency of traumatic injury across skeletal elements in these two species was calculated. Here we show that the frequency of trauma in the sabre-tooth cat exceeds that of the dire wolf (4.3% compared to 2.8%), implying that the killing behaviour of S. fatalis entailed greater risk of injury. The distribution of traumatic injuries also differed between the two species. S. fatalis, an ambush predator, was injured more often than expected across the lumbar vertebrae and shoulders whereas C. dirus, a pursuit predator, had higher than expected levels of injury in the limbs and cervical vertebrae. Spatial analysis was used to quantify differences in the distribution of putative hunting injuries. Analysis of injury locations discriminated true hotspots from injury-dense areas and facilitated interpretation of predatory behaviour, demonstrating the use of spatial analyses in the study of vertebrate behaviour and evolution. These results suggest that differences in trauma distribution reflect distinct hazards of each species’ hunting mode."

Other articles related:
Sabre-toothed tigers in ice-age Los Angeles had bad back trouble

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 05-25-2017

ESR dating of Smilodon populator from Toca de Cima dos Pilão, Piauí, Brazil

Abstract

Smilodon is a genus of big cats that lived from the early to the late Pleistocene in regions extending from North to South America. The fossil records of the “saber-toothed cats” are uneven, with some taxa being quite abundant in certain regions. In Brazil, Smilodon populator is a well-known species whose remains, although scarce in comparison to other large mammals, are found all across the country. In particular, there are multiple records of this species in the region of the Serra da Capivara National Park. This area was home to a rich Pleistocene-Holocene fauna, including many mammals. Here, we report on the Electron Spin Resonance dating of a Smilodon populator tooth found in “Toca de Cima dos Pilão”, located in the surroundings of the Serra da Capivara National Park. The equivalent dose found after exponential fitting of dose-response curve was (2.7±0.3)x102 Gy. Neutron Activation Analysis was used to determine the concentration of radioisotopes present in the sample and in the sediment to calculate the internal and external dose rates. The result of age found is 93±9 ka, which confirmed the presence of this species in Serra da Capivara National Park in the late Pleistocene.

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 06-20-2017

Panthera Atrox Jaw or Naegele's Jaguar

So we still are not sure if American Lion is a Lion or a Jaguar or something in between?

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 06-28-2017

@genao87 The general and most recent consensus is that the cave/American lions are sister to the modern lion lineage, separate close to 2 mya. The jaguar theory never really caught on and I still read rebuttals of it in papers every now and then. It seems P. atrox converged with the jaguar in some morphological traits, but DNA shows they are not closely related.

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 07-09-2017

(06-28-2017, 02:29 AM)tigerluver Wrote: @genao87 The general and most recent consensus is that the cave/American lions are sister to the modern lion lineage, separate close to 2 mya. The jaguar theory never really caught on and I still read rebuttals of it in papers every now and then. It seems P. atrox converged with the jaguar in some morphological traits, but DNA shows they are not closely related.

Okay, so just to make sure I understand you. The Cave Lions and American Lions were NOT lions at all. It is then safe to assume that they came from an ancestor cat and due to evolution, arose the Cave/American Lions (not lions) and the modern african lion we know today?

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 07-09-2017

@genao87 , in the strictest of taxonomic terms, yes. However, of all past and present cats we know, they are the closest relative of the modern lion. Here's a visual:

*This image is copyright of its original author

The cave lion thread has some more info on the evolution of the lineage.

RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - genao87 - 07-11-2017

Excellent chart, cant believe I missed that if it was posted here in the forums.

Well at least we got that answer...so they were not lions. Just related to them more so than other pantherine cats.