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+---- Thread: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines (/topic-freak-felids-a-discussion-of-history-s-largest-felines)
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-23-2015
Hopefully they publish something on the site within the next year. We need faunal level dating as well as measurements, pictures, and descriptions of the specimens to classify the fossils without doubts. A genetic analysis would be great as well.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-24-2015
Baryshnikov and Tsoukala (2010) data from their study. Lions at the bottom. It also has plenty of bears, might interest @
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-24-2015
According to WaveRiders (although he is not a welcomed member here), this is the famous Ural specimen with the 475 mm (estimation based on the 422 mm condylobasal length) skull.
http://paleorestavration.com/Project.html
It is definitely a lion-like cat, and probably weighing about 350 kg.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-24-2015
The alleged area of the skull according to the website matches, so it could be true.
Interestingly, the upper p4 of the skull is 41.8, essentially the same as Colbert and Hooijer's 42 mm Wahnsien p4.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-24-2015
Does the Wanhsien tiger has proportionally smaller dentition?
If the Wanhsien tiger's skull is also as long as that of the Ural specimen, then the skull could be even more robust built.
Unfortunately, the big Wanhsien skull from the private collection might be lost forever, and I don't know how long we could ever see another fossil treasure like this one.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-24-2015
Off one specimen, we can't say. In tiger populations where dentitions relate okay with skull size (mainly P.t. altaica), normally the males and those of larger skulls have proportionately smaller dentition, or rather, bigger teeth lead to even bigger skulls. At the same time, some populations have essentially no correlation between skull size and dentition size.
The cave lion here (http://ojs.zrc-sazu.si/carsologica/article/viewFile/126/116) has teeth just as big, but only measures 417 mm.
If the Ngandong skull were to representative of the Wahnsien tiger, a 42 mm upper P4 could be of a skull measuring 435 mm- 453 mm.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-24-2015
Then I am probably going with the Ngandong tiger, since these two groups are extremely closely related, and the difference between these two groups are probably no more than the difference between the different Cave lion groups.
I think the only difference that differentiates the Wanhsien population from the Ngandong population is the broadness of the skull.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-24-2015
*This image is copyright of its original author
The Longdan tiger has a really narrow skull, the length/width ratio is almost 2. This is where the Ngandong tiger likely got its slender skull from. I'd predict that Hooijer's Wahnsien tiger also had slender skulls, due its likely relations to both the Longdan tiger and the South China tiger.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-24-2015
But the big Pleistocene skull from the Sichuan province is the classic Wanhsien tiger, and it is extremely broad in both zygomatic arch and muzzle.
The Wanhsien county is located within the Sichuan province.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-24-2015
I forgot about that specimen's locality. Who knows to be honest. Someone just needs to find that skull. I remember you stated it was sold off as a rhino, bummer.
Maybe the Ngandong tiger and Wahnsien tiger are a bit more distant. The Sangiran tiger was present in Sundaland around 1 million years ago. The Wahnsien specimens are most likely around 1 million- 700 kya of age. There is enough geographic distance to stop gene flow population and differentiate them, and the metapodials are likely evidence to this hypothesis. Maybe the skulls had similar differences, if that makes sense.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-24-2015
That freak specimen was found in a city that is located in the north of the Wanhsien county, but they are both located within the Sichuan province which is itself located in the Central-West part of China.
And I hope that lost treasure could be recovered in one day.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-24-2015
Young Saber-Toothed Cats Relied On Parents While Teeth Grew
Using a Novel Absolute Ontogenetic Age Determination Technique to Calculate the Timing of Tooth Eruption in the Saber-Toothed Cat, Smilodon fatalis
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-29-2015
Panthera spelaea or Panthera atrox?
The owner claims it is Panthera atrox, and it measures up to 17 inches (over the curve on the top of the skull).
Also it was described as an Alaskan specimen in the late Pleistocene.
http://www.dinolandplus.com/mammals/P108
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - tigerluver - 08-30-2015
According to Sotnikova and Foronova, the lions from Alaska in the late Pleistocene are P. spelaea. To me, it's hard to tell from those pictures, the width dimensions are better factors for identification.
RE: Freak Felids - A Discussion of History's Largest Felines - GrizzlyClaws - 08-31-2015
A large fossil k9 being found in Java, and it looks like the lower k9 of a big cat.
It might belong to the Ngandong tiger, and if the lower k9 measures over 13 cm, then the upper k9 should be over 15 cm.
http://www.thefossilforum.com/index.php?/topic/48637-13-cm-mysterious-carnivore-tooth-with-root-from-java/
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author