+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: Avoca male lions (/topic-avoca-male-lions)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
RE: Avoca male lions - DARK MANE - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 01:13 AM)SMK350 Wrote: the youngest Birmingham daughters all gave birth 3.5 months after mating with dark-mane although the other brothers could have sired cubs as well.Well this seems to be strange.
Never seen dark Mane with younger nkuhuma girls. See, there are so many videos clearly stated that since late 2019 dark Mane used to stay with talamatis and Other two with nkuhumaa.
Even once in 2020 , DM tried to visit nkuhuma territory just once but he was not welcome at all. I remembered the legendary seen when DM was at submissive position and Mohawk walking around him and roaring and attacking him clearly stated that " u are not welcome here. " 2:20 of this video.
I am posting one of those video.
RE: Avoca male lions - WildLeonis - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 06:23 AM)DARK MANE Wrote:(11-22-2022, 01:13 AM)SMK350 Wrote: the youngest Birmingham daughters all gave birth 3.5 months after mating with dark-mane although the other brothers could have sired cubs as well.Well this seems to be strange.
Never seen dark Mane with younger nkuhuma girls. See, there are so many videos clearly stated that since late 2019 dark Mane used to stay with talamatis and Other two with nkuhumaa.
Even once in 2020 , DM tried to visit nkuhuma territory just once but he was not welcome at all. I remembered the legendary seen when DM was at submissive position and Mohawk walking around him and roaring and attacking him clearly stated that " u are not welcome here. " 2:20 of this video.
I am posting one of those video.
As someone stated upthread DM mated with all the Nkuhuma ladies who went into estrus in 2019 -Ridgenose, Amber Eyes and Purple Eye. So it can be argued that he fathered some of the offspring they produced. Even after he left his brothers he mated with Chela, and the cubs she had in late 2019 could’ve potentially been his, but I think she lost all those cubs.
Moreover in 2020 he was seen mating with one of the young Nkuhuma lionesses at the airstrip in Londzolozi I think. So it could be argued that some of the cubs whom Mohawk is now “raising alone” may be DMs. Also though DM has always been said to be the father of all the Talamati subadults, I seem to recall seeing footage of Mohawk mating with one of the Talamati ladies back in the day. So he could’ve fathered some of those subadults too.
These lions get around. And will mate with whomever when the opportunity presents itself and they are in the “mood.” So you never know who fathered whom. When you’re dealing with a coalition of lions any one of them could be the father.
RE: Avoca male lions - SMK350 - 11-22-2022
(11-22-2022, 06:23 AM)DARK MANE Wrote:(11-22-2022, 01:13 AM)SMK350 Wrote: the youngest Birmingham daughters all gave birth 3.5 months after mating with dark-mane although the other brothers could have sired cubs as well.Well this seems to be strange.
Never seen dark Mane with younger nkuhuma girls. See, there are so many videos clearly stated that since late 2019 dark Mane used to stay with talamatis and Other two with nkuhumaa.
Even once in 2020 , DM tried to visit nkuhuma territory just once but he was not welcome at all. I remembered the legendary seen when DM was at submissive position and Mohawk walking around him and roaring and attacking him clearly stated that " u are not welcome here. " 2:20 of this video.
I am posting one of those video.
But that’s just an entertainment video. Here are the sighting from January 2021.
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
He met Mo afterwards.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tonpa - 11-22-2022
On MalaMala
RE: Avoca male lions - 1999gc8 - 11-23-2022
In recent years I felt like DM was considered an icon of Sabi Sands and was very popular and much loved by lion fans, sabi guides and in general was well respected considering how much he struggled in recent years with his injury and just the awesome lion he was.
I know other lions can be come injured and die from an injury but I was really disappointed to see pictures of his eaten carcus and another of his bones scattered everywhere on instagram posted by Legend Safaris.
Even Tessa from wildearth stated they would not be going to the spot where he died so he could be remembered for how he was prior to everything that happened etc.
Nature is nature but honestly thought he might be buried much like Scarface considering how popular DM was or just left in peace.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 11-23-2022
(11-23-2022, 01:31 PM)1999gc8 Wrote: Nature is nature but honestly thought he might be buried much like Scarface considering how popular DM was or just left in peace.
He is part of nature, part of cycle, just like he eated hundreds of other animals for his survival, why deny other animals to do the same with his body? Taking the carcass out of the area where he died is intervening with nature, taking the needed meal for starving hyenas for example..
Yea, we follow lions, but dont put lions "above" every other wild animal, lions are no different or more important then other animals..
And even if he was buried, worms and bugs would feast and eat his body anyways.. hyenas or worms? No difference..
RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 11-23-2022
These sorts of photos are also important sources of information as they may offer a glimpse in what has transpired.
While I doubt there will be much mysteries in this case. Creating some rule where these no longer are shared may cause issues later.
Removing the corpse of fallen animals may seem respectfull. But only to an animal that is already gone. For the others its just robbing them of a meal.
There is also a chance that the next of kin may still be looking for him or her. Anyone that once had a kitten die on them knows its not good to remove the corpse before the mother has made her peace. For lions this probably works the same.
RE: Avoca male lions - SMK350 - 11-23-2022
His body should be left to nature but I agree that the photos didn’t need to be shared.
When the black dam male from thornybush passed under similar circumstances the guides chose not to publish the photos. If I remember correctly the photos of scar nose majingilane leaked but were not intended to be published.
RE: Avoca male lions - WildLeonis - 11-23-2022
I agree with others regarding the disrespect in reporting on DM remains. I didn’t expect him to be buried. He was after all apart of nature and should be left to return to the earth and replenish it. But they did not need to take pictures and broadcast footage of his half eaten corpse and bones scattered about, especially considering how loved and popular he was. When I seen some of the videos come up in my YouTube feed about his carcass being moved etc I bypassed them. I refuse to watch as I’d rather remember DM as he was, specifically in his prime.
I don’t recall footage and pictures being released of Blondie, Thandie, and Hosana’s corpses and how they were devoured by nature after their deaths. Thus the continuous coverage by WE and others on the status DM’s remains seem more like an attempt at keeping viewers interest, being that he was so popular, rather than some educational opportunity on the way of nature.
RE: Avoca male lions - Duco Ndona - 11-24-2022
Well. It largely depends on whether or not they even find their remains or if the corpse is displayable on Instagram without being flagged.
The corpses of Big Boy Mhangeni, the Tsalala lioness and Nguvu were shown without much controverse. As was the unnamed othawa male sub recently.
Ultimately, its up to the viewer to decide wheter or not he clicks on it. The last thing we need is to turn actual wildlife in some kind of lion king movie with only happy smiling animals doing happy smiling things. We have zoos for that kind of stuff.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 11-24-2022
(11-23-2022, 11:58 PM)WildLeonis Wrote: I agree with others regarding the disrespect in reporting on DM remains. I didn’t expect him to be buried. He was after all apart of nature and should be left to return to the earth and replenish it. But they did not need to take pictures and broadcast footage of his half eaten corpse and bones scattered about, especially considering how loved and popular he was. When I seen some of the videos come up in my YouTube feed about his carcass being moved etc I bypassed them. I refuse to watch as I’d rather remember DM as he was, specifically in his prime.
I don’t recall footage and pictures being released of Blondie, Thandie, and Hosana’s corpses and how they were devoured by nature after their deaths. Thus the continuous coverage by WE and others on the status DM’s remains seem more like an attempt at keeping viewers interest, being that he was so popular, rather than some educational opportunity on the way of nature.
And you watch buffaloes or other pray animal carcasses getting eaten and bones throwed around? Which is broadcasted almost every day? Thats not the problem?
As i said, we follow lions, but dont "put" lions above other animals in importance..
So, we dont want to see lions getting killed and eaten, but we cheer and dont mind when that happens to buffalo or hyena which lions kill and eat..thats normal then.
Why should they show carcasses of buffaloes but not of lions?
RE: Avoca male lions - WildLeonis - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 01:10 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(11-23-2022, 11:58 PM)WildLeonis Wrote: I agree with others regarding the disrespect in reporting on DM remains. I didn’t expect him to be buried. He was after all apart of nature and should be left to return to the earth and replenish it. But they did not need to take pictures and broadcast footage of his half eaten corpse and bones scattered about, especially considering how loved and popular he was. When I seen some of the videos come up in my YouTube feed about his carcass being moved etc I bypassed them. I refuse to watch as I’d rather remember DM as he was, specifically in his prime.
I don’t recall footage and pictures being released of Blondie, Thandie, and Hosana’s corpses and how they were devoured by nature after their deaths. Thus the continuous coverage by WE and others on the status DM’s remains seem more like an attempt at keeping viewers interest, being that he was so popular, rather than some educational opportunity on the way of nature.
And you watch buffaloes or other pray animal carcasses getting eaten and bones throwed around? Which is broadcasted almost every day? Thats not the problem?
As i said, we follow lions, but dont "put" lions above other animals in importance..
So, we dont want to see lions getting killed and eaten, but we cheer and dont mind when that happens to buffalo or hyena which lions kill and eat..thats normal then.
Why should they show carcasses of buffaloes but not of lions?
I’m not particularly a fan of any animal being killed and eaten, but it is the way of nature. I will admit I am more sensitive to those whom I am attached to due to the coverage and the personal identification they receive. Naming lions, leopards, hyenas and even warthogs creates a personal attachment for viewers. Buffalos, Kudu and other prey animals don’t have that kind of attachment with viewers for obvious reasons. Doesn’t mean they’re not as important. Nonetheless when a lion, leopard, hyena or any other named animal dies or/are killed viewers feel a certain way about their deaths. And many would rather not see ongoing broadcasts of an animal with whom they’ve become attached eaten and bones scattered about. Of course WE and others are welcome to do as they please but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with it just because they are showing the way of nature.
RE: Avoca male lions - Tr1x24 - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 01:31 AM)WildLeonis Wrote: I’m not particularly a fan of any animal being killed and eaten, but it is the way of nature. I will admit I am more sensitive to those whom I am attached to due to the coverage and the personal identification they receive. Naming lions, leopards, hyenas and even warthogs creates a personal attachment for viewers. Buffalos, Kudu and other prey animals don’t have that kind of attachment with viewers for obvious reasons. Doesn’t mean they’re not as important. Nonetheless when a lion, leopard, hyena or any other named animal dies or/are killed viewers feel a certain way about their deaths. And many would rather not see ongoing broadcasts of an animal with whom they’ve become attached eaten and bones scattered about. Of course WE and others are welcome to do as they please but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with it just because they are showing the way of nature.
Thats ok, but they are just showing how it goes both ways, that show is not only for lions or leopards.
RE: Avoca male lions - RookiePundit - 11-24-2022
(11-23-2022, 11:58 PM)WildLeonis Wrote: I agree with others regarding the disrespect in reporting on DM remains. I didn’t expect him to be buried. He was after all apart of nature and should be left to return to the earth and replenish it. But they did not need to take pictures and broadcast footage of his half eaten corpse and bones scattered about, especially considering how loved and popular he was. When I seen some of the videos come up in my YouTube feed about his carcass being moved etc I bypassed them. I refuse to watch as I’d rather remember DM as he was, specifically in his prime.
I don’t recall footage and pictures being released of Blondie, Thandie, and Hosana’s corpses and how they were devoured by nature after their deaths. Thus the continuous coverage by WE and others on the status DM’s remains seem more like an attempt at keeping viewers interest, being that he was so popular, rather than some educational opportunity on the way of nature.
Hosana's death was not of natural cause, hardly a comparable case in any way as the interference with the system already happened so what to do with the cadavre is acompletely diffrent animal, pun intended (but as he was a leopard, we would be OT here anyway).
RE: Avoca male lions - 1ofCourage - 11-24-2022
(11-24-2022, 01:10 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:Dark Mane was followed and constantly photographed in life, so I guess we shouldn’t be surprised if that happens in his death. That doesn’t make it right though.(11-23-2022, 11:58 PM)WildLeonis Wrote: I agree with others regarding the disrespect in reporting on DM remains. I didn’t expect him to be buried. He was after all apart of nature and should be left to return to the earth and replenish it. But they did not need to take pictures and broadcast footage of his half eaten corpse and bones scattered about, especially considering how loved and popular he was. When I seen some of the videos come up in my YouTube feed about his carcass being moved etc I bypassed them. I refuse to watch as I’d rather remember DM as he was, specifically in his prime.
I don’t recall footage and pictures being released of Blondie, Thandie, and Hosana’s corpses and how they were devoured by nature after their deaths. Thus the continuous coverage by WE and others on the status DM’s remains seem more like an attempt at keeping viewers interest, being that he was so popular, rather than some educational opportunity on the way of nature.
And you watch buffaloes or other pray animal carcasses getting eaten and bones throwed around? Which is broadcasted almost every day? Thats not the problem?
As i said, we follow lions, but dont "put" lions above other animals in importance..
So, we dont want to see lions getting killed and eaten, but we cheer and dont mind when that happens to buffalo or hyena which lions kill and eat..thats normal then.
Why should they show carcasses of buffaloes but not of lions?
Since I started checking in on his movements, I grew to really like him. He was dear to many others too. That’s the difference. People empathized with him in his pain and losses daily. We hoped the best for him.
He had a rough last couple of years. That’s for sure. Heck! He went bald after he lost his area and his beloved Talamati pride. That to me was the worst stresser in his life because he never went bald over his ankle injury. His condition sunk to new lows. I thought he’d die then. In fact he never recovered to his former self and was constantly in poor condition from lack of food.
I guess that my respect for his life included the same for his death. There is no way that I’d exploit it or display it. People will watch tributes of his life just as readily, so choosing to post anything else is unnecessary and doesn’t reflect the concern and love that people had for this unique lion. It offends a lot of people to see DM’s dead body photographed in any state. He deserves better, I think. Leave that part of the story untold.