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+----- Thread: Lion Predation (/topic-lion-predation)
RE: Lion Predation - Siegfried - 01-14-2015
(01-11-2015, 06:35 PM)'Pckts' Wrote:(01-10-2015, 08:50 PM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-01-2015, 07:03 AM)'Pantherinae' Wrote: Another male lion with an impressive buffalo bull kill.
This guy's built like a tank. Impressive forequarters.
Doubt he made the kill, just dominated the carcass, Like males do. You can see quite a bit of the carcass already removed from the buffalo, so I am sure its been dead for sometime.
@Pckts, what about this video leads you to believe this lion didn't make this kill by himself? If he is merely dominating the carcass of a kill made by others, where are the other lions that would no doubt want their share. He looks too relaxed. I don't think any other lions are present. By the looks of his gross bloody mane, it appears as though he has been working on that buffalo for quite some time. While it clearly isn't the freshest kill, there still was plenty of meat on the carcass at the time of the video... yet where was the rest of the pride? I think that big boy might have been working alone that day.
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-15-2015
The fact that the buffaloes entire midsection is gone. ^^^ Considering it would take a lion multiple days to eat that much meat himself. 20kg of meat, which is what a lion will eat in one sitting will satisfy him for a day or two. There is far more than that missing from the buffalo, is there not?
It is far less likely that he made the kill himself, since no body has ever seen or captured it on camera before. Also don't know if its a bull or cow, how it died, what condition etc.
It definitely can't be used as conclusive, and since more often than not, the pride is the contributor to the kill and male lions dominate the kill, that is the more likely account.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 12:46 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: The fact that the buffaloes entire midsection is gone. ^^^ Considering it would take a lion multiple days to eat that much meat himself. 20kg of meat, which is what a lion will eat in one sitting will satisfy him for a day or two. There is far more than that missing from the buffalo, is there not?~~
It is far less likely that he made the kill himself, since no body has ever seen or captured it on camera before. Also don't know if its a bull or cow, how it died, what condition etc.
It definitely can't be used as conclusive, and since more often than not, the pride is the contributor to the kill and male lions dominate the kill, that is the more likely account.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
I posted two seperate links, both of which stated weights of 500- 900kgs. There are more. Do the math. I laugh at the weight table you
posted. How is it posiible to weigh lion prey items? I've yet to see a research team kick a lion, better yet, a pride, off a kill to take measurents.
I've seen countless videos of lions taking down large buffalo. I'm sure you have also. I've seen lions complete the task solo. Not easy to tell
whether the victim is male or female, most of the time. You have tigers preying upon full grown elephants - up to 5 tons - rhino 2+ tons, and
full grown gaur, and yet claim a single male lion - similar in size - incapable of tackling a bull buffalo, which is tiny in comparison. You see my
point?
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 12:46 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: The fact that the buffaloes entire midsection is gone. ^^^ Considering it would take a lion multiple days to eat that much meat himself. 20kg of meat, which is what a lion will eat in one sitting will satisfy him for a day or two. There is far more than that missing from the buffalo, is there not?~~
It is far less likely that he made the kill himself, since no body has ever seen or captured it on camera before. Also don't know if its a bull or cow, how it died, what condition etc.
It definitely can't be used as conclusive, and since more often than not, the pride is the contributor to the kill and male lions dominate the kill, that is the more likely account.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
I posted two seperate links, both of which stated weights of 500- 900kgs. There are more. Do the math. I laugh at the weight table you
posted. How is it possible to weigh lion prey items? I've yet to see a research team kick a lion, better yet, a pride, off a kill to take measurents.
I've seen countless videos of lions taking down large buffalo. I'm sure you have also. I've seen lions complete the task solo. Not easy to tell
whether the victim is male or female, most of the time. Also, lions will take buffalo calfs whenever possible. I'm sure that's been factored in.
You have tigers preying upon full grown elephants - up to 5 tons - rhino 2+ tons, and full grown gaur and yet claim a single large male lion,
similar in size and weaponry to a tiger, incapable of tackling a bull buffalo, which is tiny in comparison. You see my point?
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 02:21 AM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-15-2015, 12:46 AM)'Pckts' Wrote: The fact that the buffaloes entire midsection is gone. ^^^ Considering it would take a lion multiple days to eat that much meat himself. 20kg of meat, which is what a lion will eat in one sitting will satisfy him for a day or two. There is far more than that missing from the buffalo, is there not?~~
It is far less likely that he made the kill himself, since no body has ever seen or captured it on camera before. Also don't know if its a bull or cow, how it died, what condition etc.
It definitely can't be used as conclusive, and since more often than not, the pride is the contributor to the kill and male lions dominate the kill, that is the more likely account.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
@chaos
What?
No where does it state that Bulls are a ton, in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton. 2ndly, you are talking about the freak shows of the cape buffalo world. Like finding a 300kg tiger or 250kg lion, its a rarity let alone a lone lion taking one down. Be realistic and the study I showed shows that Male lions went after buffalo with the mean or average weight of 420kg or 900+ lbs. Right in the normal range for bull buffalo.
I posted two seperate links, both of which stated weights of 500- 900kgs. There are more. Do the math. I laugh at the weight table you
posted. How is it possible to weigh lion prey items? I've yet to see a research team kick a lion, better yet, a pride, off a kill to take measurents.
I've seen countless videos of lions taking down large buffalo. I'm sure you have also. I've seen lions complete the task solo. Not easy to tell
whether the victim is male or female, most of the time. Also, lions will take buffalo calfs whenever possible. I'm sure that's been factored in.
You have tigers preying upon full grown elephants - up to 5 tons - rhino 2+ tons, and full grown gaur and yet claim a single large male lion,
similar in size and weaponry to a tiger, incapable of tackling a bull buffalo, which is tiny in comparison. You see my point?
You posted a Wiki copy and pasted excerpt. No link!
No verified weights, no measurements etc.
"I laugh at the weight table"
Ok, so you laugh at actual proof while posting wiki excerpts.
Makes sense [img]images/smilies/dodgy.gif[/img]
"I've seen countless videos of lions taking down large buffalo."
Yet you have seen nothing of a lone lion taking down a adult bull buffalo. No eye witness accounts, no photos with the photographers account backing it, etc.
You have seen LIONS, and that is all.
Maybe it happens may be it doesn't. But either way, there is NO reliable account of it happening.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
Oh..........so what you post is always the gospel, and others who oppose, post excerpts
from unreliable sources. Read it and weep.
~~Reported measurements for African buffalo (Syncerus caffer)
Source Adult Weight Head & Body Length Shoulder Height Tail Length
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. caffer) 500-700 kg 240-340 cm 140-160 cm -
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. nanus) 265-320 kg 180-220 cm 100-130 cm -
Buchholtz, 1990 265-680 kg 220-340 cm 100-170 cm 70-110 cm
Kingdon, 1997 250-850 kg 170-340 cm 100-170 cm 50-80 cm
Nowak, 1991 300-900 kg 210-340 cm 100-170 cm 75-110 cm
I believe thats check........mate.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
For shiites and giggles, some more
href="http://www.softschools.com/facts/animals/african_buffalo_facts/255/">African buffalo Facts</a>
Time to put this to rest!
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 05:09 AM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh..........so what you post is always the gospel, and others who oppose, post excerpts
from unreliable sources. Read it and weep.
~~Reported measurements for African buffalo (Syncerus caffer)
Source Adult Weight Head & Body Length Shoulder Height Tail Length
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. caffer) 500-700 kg 240-340 cm 140-160 cm -
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. nanus) 265-320 kg 180-220 cm 100-130 cm -
Buchholtz, 1990 265-680 kg 220-340 cm 100-170 cm 70-110 cm
Kingdon, 1997 250-850 kg 170-340 cm 100-170 cm 50-80 cm
Nowak, 1991 300-900 kg 210-340 cm 100-170 cm 75-110 cm
I believe thats check........mate.
Once again,
Link to the weights claimed.
You know, a url that takes you to the results alleged. Because the link you posted takes me to a yahoo search page
href="http://www.softschools.com/facts/animals/african_buffalo_facts/255/">African buffalo Facts</a>
And.... none of the weights equal a ton, btw.
Lastly, I never said anything about a ton, only about the claim of Varty seeing a lion take down a 900kg buffalo. Which according to the list you posted, would be the largest buffalo ever measured.
Check mate
and once again, this is about a Lone male lion taking down a Adult Buffalo Bull and the lack of any proof that exists of it happening.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 05:20 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:Wrong pal, he claimed it was 800kg. BTW, seems wiki was right, heh?(01-15-2015, 05:09 AM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh..........so what you post is always the gospel, and others who oppose, post excerpts
from unreliable sources. Read it and weep.
~~Reported measurements for African buffalo (Syncerus caffer)
Source Adult Weight Head & Body Length Shoulder Height Tail Length
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. caffer) 500-700 kg 240-340 cm 140-160 cm -
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. nanus) 265-320 kg 180-220 cm 100-130 cm -
Buchholtz, 1990 265-680 kg 220-340 cm 100-170 cm 70-110 cm
Kingdon, 1997 250-850 kg 170-340 cm 100-170 cm 50-80 cm
Nowak, 1991 300-900 kg 210-340 cm 100-170 cm 75-110 cm
I believe thats check........mate.
Once again,
Link to the weights claimed.
You know, a url that takes you to the results alleged. Because the link you posted takes me to a yahoo search page
href="http://www.softschools.com/facts/animals/african_buffalo_facts/255/">African buffalo Facts</a>
And.... none of the weights equal a ton, btw.
Lastly, I never said anything about a ton, only about the claim of Varty seeing a lion take down a 900kg buffalo. Which according to the list you posted, would be the largest buffalo ever measured.
Check mate
900kg = 1980 lbs. I'll take it. Game over. Enjoy your evening
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 05:27 AM)'chaos' Wrote:(01-15-2015, 05:20 AM)'Pckts' Wrote:Wrong pal, he claimed it was 800kg. BTW, seems wiki was right, heh?(01-15-2015, 05:09 AM)'chaos' Wrote: Oh..........so what you post is always the gospel, and others who oppose, post excerpts
from unreliable sources. Read it and weep.
~~Reported measurements for African buffalo (Syncerus caffer)
Source Adult Weight Head & Body Length Shoulder Height Tail Length
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. caffer) 500-700 kg 240-340 cm 140-160 cm -
Alden et al., 1995
(for S. c. nanus) 265-320 kg 180-220 cm 100-130 cm -
Buchholtz, 1990 265-680 kg 220-340 cm 100-170 cm 70-110 cm
Kingdon, 1997 250-850 kg 170-340 cm 100-170 cm 50-80 cm
Nowak, 1991 300-900 kg 210-340 cm 100-170 cm 75-110 cm
I believe thats check........mate.
Once again,
Link to the weights claimed.
You know, a url that takes you to the results alleged. Because the link you posted takes me to a yahoo search page
href="http://www.softschools.com/facts/animals/african_buffalo_facts/255/">African buffalo Facts</a>
And.... none of the weights equal a ton, btw.
Lastly, I never said anything about a ton, only about the claim of Varty seeing a lion take down a 900kg buffalo. Which according to the list you posted, would be the largest buffalo ever measured.
Check mate
900kg = 1980 lbs. I'll take it. Game over. Enjoy your evening
So no working link? No weights shown?
800kg is right, sorry. Which of course WOULD still be the largest Verified buffalo weight of all time. Unless of course you can provide PROOF the the 900kg buffalo?
And still not a single proven account of a lone male lion taking down a adult bull buffalo.
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-15-2015
Here is the online data base for the largest Cape buffalos ever hunted, if anybody wants to join
http://www.scirecordbook.org/cape-or-southern-buffalo/Syncerus caffer caffer
Bufalo del Cabo[i] (Sp), [i]Kaffernbüffel, Schwarzbüffel (G), Buffle du Cap, Buffle noir (F). The common name "Cape buffalo" is misleading, because this subspecies is native to many parts of Africa besides the Cape of Good Hope region (where it is extinct); however, that is what most people call it.
DESCRIPTION Shoulder height 60-65 inches (150-165 cm). Weight 1,400-1,800 lbs (650-800 kg).
The Cape buffalo is the largest and darkest (black, or nearly so) of the African buffaloes. Its heavy horns curve outward and downward from massive bosses to well below skull level, then circle upward, inward and slightly backward.
DISTRIBUTION Savanna areas in Kenya, southern Somalia, Uganda except in the northwest, Rwanda, Burundi and Tanzania; all of Angola except for the far northwest; Katanga Province in southeastern Congo (K); Zambia, Malawi, Mozambique, the Caprivi Strip in Namibia, northern Botswana, Zimbabwe, and northeastern Transvaal in South Africa. Has been reintroduced on private ranches in other parts of South Africa.
There is over 3200 buffalo listed, should be a good place to start looking. [/i][/i]
You may want to actually do some research there, @chaos
[img]images/smilies/tongue.gif[/img]
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
~~John varty claims the buffalo weighed 800kg which of course is much larger then a cape would weigh
~~DESCRIPTION Shoulder height 60-65 inches (150-165 cm). Weight 1,400-1,800 lbs (650-800 kg).
~~in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton.
These are your posts. A bit contradictory, don't ya think?
RE: Lion Predation - sanjay - 01-15-2015
Lets see who is mature.... [img]images/smilies/undecided.gif[/img]
RE: Lion Predation - Pckts - 01-15-2015
(01-15-2015, 08:55 PM)'chaos' Wrote: ~~John varty claims the buffalo weighed 800kg which of course is much larger then a cape would weigh
~~DESCRIPTION Shoulder height 60-65 inches (150-165 cm). Weight 1,400-1,800 lbs (650-800 kg).
~~in fact the report I posted says that bulls very rarely if ever exceed 1500lbs, 500 lbs less than a ton.
These are your posts. A bit contradictory, don't ya think?
Ok, so no links provided once again?
Once again, the point has nothing to do if a buffalo bull is 800kg or 900kg, its about the fact that there is no known account of a Lone male lion taking down a Adult bull buffalo.
The 2nd point is that Varty is far from reliable, he is only about money and elaborate stories to increase tourism to his zone and there would definitely be know way of knowing a Buffalo bull is 800kg especially if that is the absolute maximum for a bull.
RE: Lion Predation - chaos - 01-15-2015
~~Once again, the point has nothing to do if a buffalo bull is 800kg or 900kg, its about the fact that there is no known account of a Lone male lion taking down a Adult bull buffalo.
Oh really? We have have a full page of posts dealing specifically with this topic. You made a claim. I called you out on it.
We've gone back and forth with it. I was correct. No big deal. Time to move on.