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+--- Thread: A day at the circus (/topic-a-day-at-the-circus)
A day at the circus - peter - 05-16-2014
Post information about captive big cats and other animals used in the circus in this thread. I propose to dedicate this one to observations on animal behaviour. I'll start another thread on trainers.
RE: A day at the circus - peter - 03-03-2015
This is a video of a circus show somewhere in South America (Mexico?). The tigers could be Indian tigers. Although not as muscular as some of their wild relatives, the normal coloured male is as fit as they come in captivity:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbFiCOkJ8Q4
RE: A day at the circus - Wanderfalke - 03-03-2015
(03-03-2015, 03:20 AM)'peter' Wrote: This is a video of a circus show somewhere in South America (Mexico?). The tigers could be Indian tigers. Although not as muscular as some of their wild relatives, the normal coloured male is as fit as they come in captivity:That was hard to watch. Just shows how dull the self-proclaimed most intelligent being on this planet actually is. Robbing others freedom, put them into cages, make them do silly tricks and thinking how elaborate this (farce) is, by applauding to this display of arrogance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbFiCOkJ8Q4
in German we have a word for such a sight: "fremdschämen". fremd means "foreign, strange, alien", schämen means "to be ashamed". Basically it means, that you feel ashamed, although you didn´t do anything, but just by watching others behaviour, you feel ashamed of being part of their species/family/race.
A lot of fremdschämen going on there!
Anyhow, I do agree, they look pretty fit. Wouldn´t have thought they´re less muscular, if you wouldn´t have mentioned it, but I guess you´re right. They could be a bit less muscular.
RE: A day at the circus - peter - 03-18-2015
I found this picture at the Shaggy God Forum. As Warsaw also used a few pictures I posted at AVA some years ago, he probably wouldn't mind me posting a picture of a brown bear testing his skills on a motor bike.
The picture probably was taken not long after the last World War. If it would have been taken today, chances are the trainer would have been chopped to pieces. And not by his animals.
We could say a lot about the circus and wild animals. Over the years, I saw many shows and talked to many trainers. The tricks I saw were amazing at times and the animals really seemed to enjoy their work. In some cases, they were sitting right next to the trainer when he was at ease and interviewed. While I was doing the interview, someone else was recording. One day, after an interview, the one who had recorded the interview, a stand-up comedian (no joke), looked like he had seen a tiger at close range and no bars. He needed a lot of time to recover and then concluded it had been real. I agreed. This could have been the end of his recording career, but he got to a different decision.
Next day, he was present with the trusted tape-recorder. This time, the trainer had taken his brown bear with him. Not a small animal by any means. Although he was behind bars, the trainer went in every now and then to have a word with him. Every time he went in, the door was left open. This was a few yeards from where we was sitting and the comedian was closest to the door. This proved too much for him. He called it a day and returned to the theatre with a new show. The story on the trainer, the tiger and no bars and the bear with the open cage door was included. It was a huge success. The reason was they didn't believe one word of what he was saying (...).
Trainers who had seen it all knew when they could take out their animal for an interview. The reason was experience. They also said bears, intelligencewise, topped all other animals. I have some doubts. Here's two stories.
One bear, a big male, had his own cage wagon. One day, after the show, he noticed the keeper had turned the key only once. Next morning, when the trainer went to see the bear, the cage was empty and the door was closed. When he looked around, he bear came out of the dark and said boo. He than buried the trainer beneath his 300 kg. He very much enjoyed the reversal of the show, but their was no audience, of course.
I wouldn't know if bears top big cats. In a Dutch zoo, a very similar incident happened. A keeper forgot to lock one of the two doors. The lions noticed, but didn't tell him. Not right away, I mean. They told him next day, when he had to enter the cage again. They were waiting for him. A very deliberate move of an animal often regarded as less intelligent than other big cats. I don't think so. The keeper, a big man, wasn't killed. The reason was the male lion took care of him. He needed many operations and six months to recover, but never regained his trust. Male lions compare to fighter pilots in World War Two. They didn't finish the bomber they had selected, but just shot it to pieces. This had more impact on those at home.
Bears more clever than, say, lions? I know bears are capable of tricks you wouldn't believe and I also know they have something going with locks. But more intelligent than a lion? Intelligence is being able to see a problem and solve it. In order to eat on the African plains, lions have to take down fast and powerful herbivores. They concluded two have a better chance than one and learned how to work as a team. They also know how to use space and how to interact with competitors. Add they only hunt us when they have no other option in most cases and the conclusion is how intelligent can you get? Same for the bear. And all other wild animals. They know how to survive. I agree solitary animals have to know more than social animals and it's also true that predators have to develop a few things in order to be able to get to the advantage they need, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions. Wild animals know what they have to know to survive. All of them. It also is a fact they are underestimated and treated accordingly by the only one who doesn't know how to survive in the wild.
Animals deserve respect and all that. Of course. In theory. Over here, I mean. But reality says they are on the backfoot everywhere. On a human-dominated planet, chances are most will be killed sooner or later, especially when they are in the meat-eating department and real good at it. The next best thing is a zoo, they say. The circus is for morons, most agree. But everything I saw suggests animals with no wild future often prefer a circus over a zoo. Not always, as some just don't like being told what to do, but very often. The reason is interaction, contacts, bonds, work and everything connected. In short, they have a life. Not the right kind of life, but it's way better than walking the same bloody circle every day for the rest of your life or being part of a breeding program. Animals working in the circus are friendly, aggressive, creative, dull-witted, courageous, jaleous, clever or whatever. But they never are neurotic. And when the time has arrived to quit, they grow old and die close to those they know best.
Apparently, many of us have a different opinion. Yesterday, I read a report about Mexico, where wild animals will be banned from the circus real soon. What to with with the thousands of animals, they say? This is the question. I'm afraid I know the answer to that one.
Anyhow. I've seen many things in the circus. The picture below wasn't the weirdest thing I saw. While I do not doubt that some who keep animals don't know what they are doing, most are closer with their animals than you could imagine. When they have to quit doing what they like best, they will get devastated. Same for many animals. Those involved in 'liberating' circus animals have no idea about the bond humans and animals have. There's no question that some animals will perish as a result of a broken heart. Humans often do it and animals are way more sensitive than we are. Besides, no circus is more motor bike practise for sure:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: A day at the circus - GuateGojira - 03-20-2015
(03-03-2015, 03:20 AM)'peter' Wrote: This is a video of a circus show somewhere in South America (Mexico?). The tigers could be Indian tigers. Although not as muscular as some of their wild relatives, the normal coloured male is as fit as they come in captivity:She is from the circus "Fuentes Gasca" from Mexico, not South America.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbFiCOkJ8Q4
Interestingly, the Mayor of Guatemala City (in Central America
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
Sad, don't you think? [img]images/smilies/sad.gif[/img]