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+----- Thread: Talamati/Msutlu Pride (/topic-talamati-msutlu-pride)
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Rui Ferreira - 07-10-2024
(07-09-2024, 09:39 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Both females look to be very comfortable together right now
Please note, that Vestment from Manyeleti reported two females were together three days ago, so they have been near other for that long
I may be thinking too far ahead but if they stay together and produce offspring and so on , does it still make sense to call it Talamati pride since only 50% of the pride is Talamati ( kinda ironic when Msultu pride is 100% Talamati)
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - RookiePundit - 07-10-2024
Ximhungwe stayed Ximhungwe so that's a recent precedent. They are even on a path to become 0% Ximhungwe blood, as the only progeny currently in the pride is from the lioness from the Othawa pride (Gingerella) and the tre Ximhugnwe lioness might not have another litter (partially due to her age).
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Ttimemarti - 07-10-2024
I personally would like to think about it but just like the ximhungwe pride she would join the talamati pride becoming a talamati female same with the ximhungwe female and the othawa breakaway female she join the ximhungwe pride sorta
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - criollo2mil - 07-10-2024
(07-10-2024, 01:26 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:(07-09-2024, 09:39 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Both females look to be very comfortable together right now
Please note, that Vestment from Manyeleti reported two females were together three days ago, so they have been near other for that long
I may be thinking too far ahead but if they stay together and produce offspring and so on , does it still make sense to call it Talamati pride since only 50% of the pride is Talamati ( kinda ironic when Msultu pride is 100% Talamati)
I agree w @Ttimemarti said, it w could be handled exactly like Ximunghwe with Gingerella.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Go131810 - 07-10-2024
(07-10-2024, 01:26 AM)Rui Ferreira Wrote:(07-09-2024, 09:39 PM)criollo2mil Wrote: Both females look to be very comfortable together right now
Please note, that Vestment from Manyeleti reported two females were together three days ago, so they have been near other for that long
I may be thinking too far ahead but if they stay together and produce offspring and so on , does it still make sense to call it Talamati pride since only 50% of the pride is Talamati ( kinda ironic when Msultu pride is 100% Talamati)
Hi yes I actually think the name should stay with her. After what this lioness been through and her sisters and the cubs and sub adults and the S8 male lion; I think it should. The pride with her sister and the other lionesses were strong with the S8 male lion. Right now the sub adults would have been growing and getting stronger. I think the name should stay; the Selatie daughters were doing good and the Talamatie lioness strength and resilience it should all stay tougher. A lot of sadness happened; I do not understand why it would be ok to not to name the Talamatie lioness. If the 4 younger lioness are named in the South it would not follow the Selatie lioness story. I think the way is done it is how other lionesses get a name, because of the area and when they split. That’s actually similar how the Selatie pride got the name after splitting from the Nukhuma. The 4 young lioness are young and strong they could start their story. Nothing will happen if it is done that way. They will still be known as Talamatie daughters and Avocas. The Talamatie pride first met with the Matimbas and then the Selatie male lions. I maybe wrong in what I said it should not be that important it is not, but how would one know what lions we’re their relatives. I use to think Gingerella in the Othowa pride is her two cubs it could be like the Othowa pride.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Go131810 - 07-10-2024
(07-10-2024, 02:00 AM)RookiePundit Wrote: Ximhungwe stayed Ximhungwe so that's a recent precedent. They are even on a path to become 0% Ximhungwe blood, as the only progeny currently in the pride is from the lioness from the Othawa pride (Gingerella) and the tre Ximhugnwe lioness might not have another litter (partially due to her age).
How old is the Ximhungwe lioness? The lioness in the Mahangeni was an old lioness she had a cub. The old Rollercoster lioness in the Styxt pride and the Sparta pride both had cubs.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Ttimemarti - 07-10-2024
(07-10-2024, 05:58 AM)Go131810 Wrote:(07-10-2024, 02:00 AM)RookiePundit Wrote: Ximhungwe stayed Ximhungwe so that's a recent precedent. They are even on a path to become 0% Ximhungwe blood, as the only progeny currently in the pride is from the lioness from the Othawa pride (Gingerella) and the tre Ximhugnwe lioness might not have another litter (partially due to her age).
How old is the Ximhungwe lioness? The lioness in the Mahangeni was an old lioness she had a cub. The old Rollercoster lioness in the Styxt pride and the Sparta pride both had cubs.
I lost track but I think she’s around 12 years old maybe 11 right now. The only reason I am worried is because things are very unpredictable right now and the legacy of her pride is only with her gingerella can be called a ximhungwe female but she is not a ximhungwe female so I would love for her to mate again but we can only wait and see
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Mapokser - 07-10-2024
1/2 elder Othawa killed by Birminghams was 14 when she had 3 cubs.
Her Mangheni sister had 2 as well at 14 ( only 1 alive now ).
White Dot from the Birmingham pride was 16 or something when she had a cub.
There's still time.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Ttimemarti - 07-10-2024
Yes plenty of time but you know how things are with these lions anything can happen what if the nkuhumas move into the west and run into the ximhungwes god forbid it from happening but just anything can happen the mhangenis can gain their confidence back and become extremely aggressive again you never know
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Go131810 - 07-10-2024
(07-10-2024, 09:40 PM)Ttimemarti Wrote: Yes plenty of time but you know how things are with these lions anything can happen what if the nkuhumas move into the west and run into the ximhungwes god forbid it from happening but just anything can happen the mhangenis can gain their confidence back and become extremely aggressive again you never knowThat would be bad. Nkuhuma lionesses going into the West. It would like in the South of Sabi Sands. I actually do not like the Styxt lionesses in the South. I think they would do better in the north.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Duco Ndona - 07-11-2024
It seems everyone is moving to the west these days.
Prides are founded around social political structures and not bloodlines.
So even if for example Ximhungwe were to die. Gingerella would still directly continue the Ximhungwe prides position in the local lion dynamics and thus will still be considered the Ximhungwe pride.
While in the Talamatis case. The group with the strongest genetic representation left the old group formed a new pride while the least Talamati group continued the original one.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Ttimemarti - 07-11-2024
(07-11-2024, 12:04 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: It seems everyone is moving to the west these days.
Prides are founded around social political structures and not bloodlines.
So even if for example Ximhungwe were to die. Gingerella would still directly continue the Ximhungwe prides position in the local lion dynamics and thus will still be considered the Ximhungwe pride.
While in the Talamatis case. The group with the strongest genetic representation left the old group formed a new pride while the least Talamati group continued the original one.
I see what you are saying but not really in my eyes if he passed away (hopefully not) her bloodline is gone ximhungwe name may live on but the the bloodline is gone, talamati pride is a little different since the msutlu pride is literally the talamati pride a name change doesn’t mean much to me if we are being honest the talamati pride is then nkuhuma pride so the nkuhuma prides bloodline will likely never end since it’s 4 different prides branching off from them but the ximhungwes is a different story same with the tsalala pride and the mhangeni and kambulas and nstevu. Sparta pride too the prides name is gone but the bloodline is not it lives threw basically the entire central and western sabi sands. Ximhungwe female is alone No brothers no sisters no mother just her and the long history of the pride is with her. Gingerella carry’s the othawa bloodline can’t change the genetics but she can be called ximhungwe but she is an othawa
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Go131810 - 07-11-2024
(07-11-2024, 12:04 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: It seems everyone is moving to the west these days.
Prides are founded around social political structures and not bloodlines.
So even if for example Ximhungwe were to die. Gingerella would still directly continue the Ximhungwe prides position in the local lion dynamics and thus will still be considered the Ximhungwe pride.
While in the Talamatis case. The group with the strongest genetic representation left the old group formed a new pride while the least Talamati group continued the original one.
Hi I was just curious when you say strongest genetic representation; what do you mean ? I want to understand ? Do you mean because the young Talamatie daughters are a group of 4? I had read before the guides want to name them based on their location. The Talamatie lioness is a strong lioness and her sisters and the sub adults and cubs were a big strong group with the S8 male lion. The lioness were strong like their sub adults and young cubs, it is just that something sad happened; it is in the past, I am saying this because they were the stronger genetic representation of the Talamati pride. Now the lone Talamatie lioness is strong and trying to survive; I remember reading how she kept hunting while her sisters were sick and the sub adults were doing good they were even doing good when it was just her and the S8 male lion.
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Rui Ferreira - 07-11-2024
(07-11-2024, 12:04 AM)Duco Ndona Wrote: It seems everyone is moving to the west these days.
Prides are founded around social political structures and not bloodlines.
So even if for example Ximhungwe were to die. Gingerella would still directly continue the Ximhungwe prides position in the local lion dynamics and thus will still be considered the Ximhungwe pride.
While in the Talamatis case. The group with the strongest genetic representation left the old group formed a new pride while the least Talamati group continued the original one.
The reason I asked was because lets pretend ( god forbid) K12 is the only who can produce offspring long enough to continue the pride, some years later we have something like
"this is the msultu pride, the entire pride is descendant of the Talamati pride"
"This is the Talamati pride, they barely have anything to do with the msultu pride genetic wise"
Its something we cant say about Nkuhumas and Talamatis nor Manghenis and Kambulas because they descend from the same lions
(I dont really have any problem with the names staying like that , but I think its an interesting topic to debate)
RE: Talamati/Msutlu Pride - Duco Ndona - 07-11-2024
Then that will be how it is. The genetic family tree of the lions has always been far to complex to just asume that one can just track it by following the pride name.