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+----- Thread: Mangheni Pride (/topic-mangheni-pride)
RE: Mangheni Pride - Cath2020 - 08-14-2022
(08-13-2022, 02:51 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:(08-13-2022, 01:20 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Is this phenomenon a theory or something observed? lions have definitely been studied long enough for such a thing to have been observed and recorded by researchers at this point.
What exactly?
All females in a pride nurse all the cubs, regardless if its their or not, they dont favore their offspring by any means, they will protect all offspring the same way, so in a way, females eventually prob dont know which cubs are even theirs, this is well known and observed.
Based of this, again, my question is, how does "nature" know that when, lets say 1 - 1.5 cub/sub dies, that specifically mother of a cub/sub should go back to estrus? It cant know..
Females are going back to estrus after period of nursing + period of "caring" (hunting for them), which usually to about 2 yrs of age (sometimes more, sometimes less). So if theres still cubs/subs in that period, even if some lioness loses, specifically her offspring, her brain is already "programmed" to raise all those cubs as if they are their own (im talking about the phase when cubs are already established in the pride, "denning" phase is different, if she lose then cubs, ofc she will be back in estrus immiditately).
Estrus cycless are more complex then we think, its not just "this lioness lost her cub/sub, she is back in estrus", it has to do something with the "brain" of that specific female and how she "perceives" situation, if she is "programmed" to take care of, and raise the cubs, even if its not theirs, she will do that and wont get back to estrus.
Thats my thinking, because there is no other explanation, why some females dont get back to estrus, when they should.
This is not exactly true. Females absolutely do recognize their own vs. their female relatives' offspring. In times of plenty, they will gladly share milking duties to as many of the pride's cubs as possible, however it has been observed, that in lean times (or when the female has limited milk stores available and she's struggling), she often favors her own offspring and rejects additional cubs that try to feed on her limited milk supply.
We don't really know whey the Mangheni Pride hasn't gone into estrous yet. This shouldn't be surprising, since only the Mapogo daughters have shown breeding success after all these years, while their younger gen. Majingilane daughters have never readily gone into estrous or have been even remotely successful at raising young. I'm not sure why, all of a sudden, this raises questions. When they were under the OM, only the oldest 3 ever mated and bred well with him. (Although there is some rumor that one of the oldest no longer had any more cubs as often as her 2 sisters) None of the 2 youngest did. Some say one of the Majingilane daughters had cubs, but now I'm doubtful....Or, she had cubs, but she most certainly lost them almost right after birth. Saying that they are not going into heat because of one sub lioness and their efforts at protecting her, while dismissing other possibilities as there is no other 'explanation' (as you mentioned), is pure speculation. This might be so, but we have no proof and everybody's opinion should be respected.
At first, I had thought that maybe Big Boy's sister is infertile (now at 6.8 years), but waited to see if she'd mate and have offspring with other males. She did mate again with the Nkuhuma Male, but the pride still is not stable enough for her. I'm not going to say just yet because she could still possibly be fertile, yet not highly fecund (as is the Ximhungwe Lioness who had her first and only litter after 7, I recently learned). There are some lionesses that are not very fertile, yet still not entirely infertile, like Kambula 6.
There is something strange going on, for sure, with the youngest 3. Maybe it's 1) no takeover of males to give confidence and stability yet 2) concern over the youngest OM's daughter, 3) low fertility or infertility, 4) oldest 3 Mapogo Lionesses are way too nomadic and their movements disorient and put the pride into stress mode. When the oldest 3 pass away, and the others became lead lionesses, it will be VERY interesting to see how they act. Maybe a combination of these reasongs.....
The youngest 2 daughters of the Majingl., in comparison to their older sisters in the first litter, had a much harder time growing up. One of them, I read, was almost not accepted back at all, and only stayed at the fringes for awhile. I believe one of them also had a bad injury when she was in exile until returning to the pride in time to recover somewhat.
RE: Mangheni Pride - Tonpa - 08-16-2022
RE: Mangheni Pride - T I N O - 08-16-2022
(08-16-2022, 06:17 PM)Tonpa Wrote:
Kinky tail daughter for sure! She's looking really well for his age
RE: Mangheni Pride - criollo2mil - 08-22-2022
Mhangeni seen in several of these images. 4 lionesses and one sub-adult
RE: Mangheni Pride - T I N O - 08-22-2022
The Mangheni females are in top condition. They're on the first video, and on the pics #5,#6,#8,#9. The lioness of the lmage #2 looks like one of the Ntsevu/Kambula pride members
RE: Mangheni Pride - Bellateda - 08-22-2022
The sub looks so small compared to their massive frames.
How old is she? Around 16 months?
RE: Mangheni Pride - Tonpa - 08-24-2022
Mhangeni female and Tsalala female
RE: Mangheni Pride - afortich - 08-25-2022
(08-24-2022, 04:38 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Mhangeni female and Tsalala female
So glad to see these two together!!
RE: Mangheni Pride - Tonpa - 08-25-2022
Mhangeni (core) hunting warthog
Othawas appear and Mhangenis move off
RE: Mangheni Pride - Mdz123 - 08-25-2022
(08-25-2022, 01:01 PM)Tonpa Wrote: Mhangeni (core) hunting warthog
Othawas appear and Mhangenis move off
One of the Mangheni appears to have a broken paw
RE: Mangheni Pride - Tr1x24 - 08-25-2022
(08-25-2022, 05:12 PM)Mdz123 Wrote: One of the Mangheni appears to have a broken paw
Thats prob occasionaly limping female.
RE: Mangheni Pride - Tr1x24 - 08-25-2022
RE: Mangheni Pride - Bellateda - 08-25-2022
Mhangeni sub saw her aunt and cousins.... And didn't like them. How ironic. Older Mhangeni lives with Tsalala. other Mhangenis avoid everyone.
RE: Mangheni Pride - criollo2mil - 08-26-2022
(08-25-2022, 05:12 PM)Mdz123 Wrote: One of the Mangheni appears to have a broken paw
That is one of the Majingilane Daughters (M12 girls) whose been carrying that limp for more than a year now.
RE: Mangheni Pride - Mdz123 - 08-26-2022
Thanks guys, a actually never knew one of Maghenis limped