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Lions of Sabi Sands - Printable Version

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RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 05-17-2023

(05-17-2023, 03:57 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Lots of lions have that black spot and are perfectly healthy. NK male has it, was a nomad basically his entire life, lost multiples partners and got beaten up multiple times and is still in foperfect condition, meanwhile Tumbelas as young dominant males quickly died. Another example of an older lion is Imbali, also has it and is also in great shape.

It doesnt effect everyone the same.

Some die early, some later, some even make it to old age.

In fact, majority of lions have some kind of bacteria disease, but not all are agressive the same.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 05-17-2023

(05-17-2023, 10:51 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-17-2023, 03:57 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Lots of lions have that black spot and are perfectly healthy. NK male has it, was a nomad basically his entire life, lost multiples partners and got beaten up multiple times and is still in foperfect condition, meanwhile Tumbelas as young dominant males quickly died. Another example of an older lion is Imbali, also has it and is also in great shape.

It doesnt effect everyone the same.

Some die early, some later, some even make it to old age.

In fact, majority of lions have some kind of bacteria disease, but not all are agressive the same.

I am going to share a theory I've heard...not trying to spread lies or hearsay...just a story i heard and I cant recall if I had mentioned here before.  

Regarding the TUMBELAS....or more specifically the 5 Nharu males that left the pride together (3 ultimately became Tumbelas).

there is a story I heard was that the 5 boys all ventured out of the park into a private property.   humans there poisoned the males (poisoned meat).  this killed two of them.  the remaining males were sedated and translocated into Sabi Sands.....this is why there isnt really any record of them being seen between their time in that private property and their first sighting in sabi sands....this sudden appearance earned them their Tumbela Males name (Hidden Ones).

I have been in the belief (my personal opinion) , that whatever killed the two brothers (poison) was also consumed by Limper and Scar (and maybe even Skorro) but just maybe didnt kill them....but did compromise their immune system enough so that they basically died "slowly". 

i don't share this to try and compel anyone to believe the story, or my assumptions.   But there are sources I trust well, that corroborate the background (but cannot publicly comment).

those on this forum that have cultivated close relationships with guides, rangers, local photographers etc...at times are afforded with select 'FOR YOUR EYES ONLY" type reports that will blow your mind when you see some of the details that happen in these areas, that are SHIELDED from the public.   I think we barely get to see the periphery of things.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - BorntobeWild - 05-17-2023

(05-17-2023, 08:52 PM)criollo2mil Wrote:
(05-17-2023, 10:51 AM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(05-17-2023, 03:57 AM)Mapokser Wrote: Lots of lions have that black spot and are perfectly healthy. NK male has it, was a nomad basically his entire life, lost multiples partners and got beaten up multiple times and is still in foperfect condition, meanwhile Tumbelas as young dominant males quickly died. Another example of an older lion is Imbali, also has it and is also in great shape.

It doesnt effect everyone the same.

Some die early, some later, some even make it to old age.

In fact, majority of lions have some kind of bacteria disease, but not all are agressive the same.

I am going to share a theory I've heard...not trying to spread lies or hearsay...just a story i heard and I cant recall if I had mentioned here before.  

Regarding the TUMBELAS....or more specifically the 5 Nharu males that left the pride together (3 ultimately became Tumbelas).

there is a story I heard was that the 5 boys all ventured out of the park into a private property.   humans there poisoned the males (poisoned meat).  this killed two of them.  the remaining males were sedated and translocated into Sabi Sands.....this is why there isnt really any record of them being seen between their time in that private property and their first sighting in sabi sands....this sudden appearance earned them their Tumbela Males name (Hidden Ones).

I have been in the belief (my personal opinion) , that whatever killed the two brothers (poison) was also consumed by Limper and Scar (and maybe even Skorro) but just maybe didnt kill them....but did compromise their immune system enough so that they basically died "slowly". 

i don't share this to try and compel anyone to believe the story, or my assumptions.   But there are sources I trust well, that corroborate the background (but cannot publicly comment).

those on this forum that have cultivated close relationships with guides, rangers, local photographers etc...at times are afforded with select 'FOR YOUR EYES ONLY" type reports that will blow your mind when you see some of the details that happen in these areas, that are SHIELDED from the public.   I think we barely get to see the periphery of things.

It is very sad to know what has been happening to the beautiful innocent animals. After all, humankind is the cancer of the earth.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 05-17-2023

@criollo2mil well, i dont have any insight on this so i cant confirm or deny, although im sceptical in your story.

5 Tumbelas where seen in northern Sabi Sands towards late 2019, after that they where seen east in Mluwati Concession, all 5, hanging for few weeks/months.

After that, Limper and Scar emerged in central Manyeleti in early 2020 , both of them already look severly malnurished and not in great condition, getting bullied by young Mbiris.

They showcase illness before they emerged in Sabi Sands as 3.

Also, if you see some photos of sub Scar, you would notice that he already is skinny in his youth.

Their brother Lambile, also has similar disease.

I mean young lions get ill all the time, look 7th Birmigham Breakaway boy, or current youngest Nkuhlu male.

If they eated infected carcass as subs, all would get infected, but lions with better imune system  and stronger genetics will not showcase it as soon as others.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - NLAL11 - 05-17-2023

@Tr1x24   @criollo2mil I can't comment on the movement of the Tumbelas before they arrived in the western sector. But lions definitely do get poisoned.

Cattle grazers take their cattle illegally onto land meant for wildlife, lions kill the cattle, so the grazers leave a poisoned carcass for the lions. Lions also 'break out' of reserves. But generally the healthy lions will fully recover, and those already sick or not at full health will succumb to the poison. So both are kind of true.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if the Tumbelas were poisoned, but as you pointed out, Lambile is also kind of sickly. Scar and Limper most likely already had health problems. While it seems that all of Skorro's sons (Skorro Jr., Nchile, Mandevu) are all healthy, impressive lions.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Tr1x24 - 05-18-2023

(05-17-2023, 11:22 PM)NLAL11 Wrote: Scar and Limper most likely already had health problems. While it seems that all of Skorro's sons (Skorro Jr., Nchile, Mandevu) are all healthy, impressive lions.

I dont think its genetics as i dont think its determined with 100% who is the father of Mandevu and Lambile, there can easly be the case that Lambile is sired by Skorro and Mandevu by Sizanani.

Lambile has that Skorro "round" face, while Madevu has completly different face structure then Ncile or Skorro Jr. , who are sons of Skorro.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - Duco Ndona - 05-18-2023

Ultimately its down to chance. One lion may just have been having a bad day and gotten separated from the group. Which saves him from eating a infected corpse. 

The poison theory is interesting and it cant be ruled out that it happened to the missing males. Though I dont think that exact scenario happened. 
If the Tumbellas were found heavily ill from poison. They would either be given some medical assistance before dropped of in western sector or put to sleep. 
Nor would poison have such a long term effects. Limper for example constantly oscillated from near complete recovery to severely ill in a matter of weeks until one day he just died. If it was poison the long term effects would likely have been more constant.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - 1999gc8 - 05-18-2023

Black Dam males at 6:18 and S8 male at 31:20






RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 05-18-2023

(05-17-2023, 10:12 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote: @criollo2mil well, i dont have any insight on this so i cant confirm or deny, although im sceptical in your story.

5 Tumbelas where seen in northern Sabi Sands towards late 2019, after that they where seen east in Mluwati Concession, all 5, hanging for few weeks/months.

After that, Limper and Scar emerged in central Manyeleti in early 2020 , both of them already look severly malnurished and not in great condition, getting bullied by young Mbiris.

They showcase illness before they emerged in Sabi Sands as 3.

Also, if you see some photos of sub Scar, you would notice that he already is skinny in his youth.

Their brother Lambile, also has similar disease.

I mean young lions get ill all the time, look 7th Birmigham Breakaway boy, or current youngest Nkuhlu male.

If they eated infected carcass as subs, all would get infected, but lions with better imune system  and stronger genetics will not showcase it as soon as others.

I do recall old posts from a photographer that used to do a wonderful job documenting the Mbiri and Nharus during that period (his name escapes me because he stopped posting a few years ago) and I do recall a period where the nharus were suffering through a bad bad patch and several loosed malnourished. The specifics are buddy to me because that was a period I wasn’t around following lions and found it in researching

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 05-18-2023

Confirms previous suspicions that the Matinmahle sons were with Torchwood






RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - book1206 - 05-18-2023




https://twitter.com/i/status/1659124802400002049
@Tr1x24 new boy in londolozi?  I heard that some pp said this boy come from Skorro pride and sired by Orpen males.   Others said that this boy is just one of PC males.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 05-18-2023

(05-18-2023, 08:02 PM)book1206 Wrote:



https://twitter.com/i/status/1659124802400002049
@Tr1x24 new boy in londolozi?  I heard that some pp said this boy come from Skorro pride and sired by Orpen males.   Others said that this boy is just one of PC males.

Your video won’t play for me so I’m going to re-post a copy I have.    I managed this screenshot 



RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - criollo2mil - 05-18-2023

Alternate angles from Dan 






RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - T_Ferguson - 05-18-2023

So, is this a new boy in town, or is this the PC Male.  I am miserable at identification.  It looks like one of the PC Males to me though.

RE: Lions of Sabi Sands - book1206 - 05-18-2023

Is this the new boy?  Picture taken by Sep ,2022




some information about Orpen males  (from youtube).  This new boy could be grandson of Matimba.

The bond of Junior & Buddy until Death
- Junior was born to Nkuhuma pride in mid 2012. He was sired by legendary Matimba coalition. Junior was the sole male cub of his peer group in the Nkuhuma pride. His first years were relatively peaceful. But everything changed with the arrival of Birmingham Boys.
In 2015, five Birmingham males arrived in the northern Sabi Sands and ousted the two Southern Matimbas Hairy Belly and Ginger. They wreaked havoc and killed three Nkuhuma lionesses (including Junior´s mother) and some cubs.
As a young sub-adult male, Junior remained with his natal pride as long as possible. But when BBoys settled with Nkuhuma pride, he had no options except leave the pride once and for all.
Being expelled to a nomadic life, Junior found a loyal partner in a slightly younger, nervous male, who was almost certainly not unrelated to him. This male would be later known as Buddy. During this time the Nkuhuma descendant got his nicknames: Junior Matimba (the coalition who sired him), Ndhuna Jr (probably his father) and Junior Nkuhuma (his natal pride).
What had started as a duo simply born out of necessity had finally ended up as a successful coalition that would become one of the most dominant forces in the Manyeleti game reserve.

The two young males were seen in the Manyeleti and in the Kruger national park before they managed to settle and establish themselves around Orpen gate in the KNP. So they were widely known as the Orpen males. In 2018 they took over the Skorro pride and sired cubs. In early 2019, openings in the Manyeleti and some pressure from an oposing coalition made the two males to move into the Manyeleti game reserve. Eventually they became more established there and took control over the Nharhu and Koppies prides. Over the years these two males fought and defeated many other coalitions who tried to took over their territory.

In mid 2020, "Buddy" sustained a hip injury that saw him lose condition quite quickly, however Junior remained in fine condition. The tragedy strucks in  November of the same year: Junior was seen with an facial injury that resulted in a massively swollen face. Rumours said that he was bitten by a snake (possibly by a Black Mamba).  After he died on the 3rd December, it was approved that he had Anthrax in his system.
The death of Junior who lately had been the driving force of the coalition marks the end of the reign of the Orpen male lions. Since Buddy was suffering from a leg  and hip injury, his condition deteriorated rapidly after he lost Junior and his pride. Being no more dominant Buddy had no protection and food from the pride and he died shortly after his comrad.
And considering many male lions do not make it being territorial, Junior managed to do something not many young males could manage to do.
A legendary son of a legendary coalition. His story is one is of the fascinating one which intrigues every lion enthusiast on the planet.