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+----- Thread: The Mighty Mapogos (/topic-the-mighty-mapogos)
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RE: The mighty Mapogos - LionKiss - 09-03-2017
(09-03-2017, 10:37 PM)IñigoMontoya Wrote: That if I'm tired to hear that a video with only roars in the night shows a battle between Mapogos and Majingilane. If we saw videos of battles between lions without images I doubt we could differentiate if they are males, lioness, males vs males, males vs lioness, lioness vs lioness etc etc. (In fact,many rangers say that the only roar they recognized was that of Makulu Mapogo because this was only).
Please this video dont shows anything. Only roars in the night.
How many Rangers said that??
No one said that, it is just another unfounded rumor.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - T Rabbit - 09-04-2017
Anyway dread was not poached inside ss reserve. Before it he left the reserve fence and start to eat cows. Only after it the farms killed him. So what that does mean? Why dread left the reserve protection? The lions who did it show us that they were surrender. Just look to gijima males. They were surrender by majingilanes in the east, matimbas in the north and mapogos in the west. So they dig and escape from the ss fence. Lions who left the reserve fence usually are desperate like gijimas and othawa boys. Maybe dread was desperate in have to live with many males and the agressive mr.t who would want to take the coalition control to them at that time. With north and east blocked he found a way trought the reserve fence.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - LionKiss - 09-04-2017
T Rabbit,
Botha have said that DL was poached in Sabi Sands, as the Head of the Antipoaching Unit in SS I guess he knows better.
and your post above has a lot of assumptions, your perssonal assumptions,
the point here is not to give an explanation anyway and finish with the story.
the point is to see what are the facts and admit that there are several other points that we do not know what happened. In fact this is the truth.
But many of us want to give an explanation, a possible scenario based many times on our personal likes or dislikes,
and the worst is that we also believe this scenario as the truth.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - Fredymrt - 09-04-2017
(09-03-2017, 04:37 PM)LionKiss Wrote: In July 11th 2010 another Ranger from Leopard Hills witnessed and recorded in a video All 5 Mapogos and all of them were in great shape. And all 5 Mapogos were seen in the West until July 19th but not all of them together.
The video was taken by guests (a ranger) in the night of July 3rd 2010.
and was posted by leopard hills blog in July 14th 2010.
From: Savanna Lodge
Written on 03 July 2010
??We followed up on the Mapogo male lions that were found this morning in the vicinity of the Day One Drainage line. They were still in the same place, north of Day One Loop, just two the west of the drainage line. There has been some interesting developments with the coalition, as the two in the north east apparently were in a fight with a new coalition. One of the Mapogo was killed, as well as one of the new coalition (there were five)!
The remaining Mapogo male immediately moved south and joined up with the four brothers on our concession. All five were together this afternoon! After watching them sleep for 45 minutes, one got up and moved slightly off, before starting to roar! The other four joined in, making it the first time I have heard five males roaring together in 3 and a half years!
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
July 14 2010 leopard hills
Mapogo Welcome mapogo roaring
July 14, 2010 | Filed under: General
Well I have been well and truly welcomed or should I say put in my place by the resident coalition of 5 Male Lions.
My second day out on drive and all 5 Mapogo’s were together again for the first time in a while. We arrived as the sun was going down and the older male decided to reinforce his seniority and began roaring toward our vehicle. Not to be out done the other four responded but were too lazy to get up and roared while still lying down. Surround sound African, the most intense Lion audio I have heard that sent shivers through us all. Many Thanks to my guest Ellie for sharing his footage.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - Rasta - 09-04-2017
(09-04-2017, 12:51 AM)Fredymrt Wrote:(09-03-2017, 04:37 PM)LionKiss Wrote: In July 11th 2010 another Ranger from Leopard Hills witnessed and recorded in a video All 5 Mapogos and all of them were in great shape. And all 5 Mapogos were seen in the West until July 19th but not all of them together.
This video was taken by guests (a ranger) in the night of July 3rd 2010.
and was posted by leopard hills blog in July 14th 2010
From: Savanna Lodge
Written on 03 July 2010
5 mapogos roaring
http://www.savannalodge.com/news/123-
??We followed up on the Mapogo male lions that were found this morning in the vicinity of the Day One Drainage line. They were still in the same place, north of Day One Loop, just two the west of the drainage line. There has been some interesting developments with the coalition, as the two in the north east apparently were in a fight with a new coalition. One of the Mapogo was killed, as well as one of the new coalition (there were five)!
The remaining Mapogo male immediately moved south and joined up with the four brothers on our concession. All five were together this afternoon! After watching them sleep for 45 minutes, one got up and moved slightly off, before starting to roar! The other four joined in, making it the first time I have heard five males roaring together in 3 and a half years!
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
July 14 2010 leopard hills
Mapogo Welcome mapogo roaring
July 14, 2010 | Filed under: General
Well I have been well and truly welcomed or should I say put in my place by the resident coalition of 5 Male Lions.
My second day out on drive and all 5 Mapogo’s were together again for the first time in a while. We arrived as the sun was going down and the older male decided to reinforce his seniority and began roaring toward our vehicle. Not to be out done the other four responded but were too lazy to get up and roared while still lying down.Surround sound African, the most intense Lion audio I have heard that sent shivers through us all. Many Thanks to my guest Ellie for sharing his footage.
Written on 19 August 2010. http://www.savannalodge.com/news?start=92
The predatory sagas continue where they left off last month.?? In the last newsletter, we mentioned about the one Mapogo male lion coming back from the east.? Well, he has decided to stay on the western side, but what was exceptionally interesting was that the other Mapogo based on the west of our property suddenly all went east, obviously to challenge the intruders that had moved in there.? How would they know to do this without there being some kind of communication between them?? The four intruders have set themselves up and are causing havoc in the east and north-east of the Sabi Sands. As a result of their arrival, we now have prides of lions from the east intruding on the western territories.? Prides that we seldom see are now venturing onto our property on a regular basis.? This could provide very interesting viewing in the next month or so, as there will undoubtedly be disputes on territorial boundaries by the females of the various prides.
First of all the Savanna reports are weekly reports, so it's hard to tell from them the exact course of the events.
Second, the ranger Dave Pusey has confirmed the date when the video has been recorded.
Cheers!
RE: The mighty Mapogos - Tshokwane - 09-04-2017
And here we go again...
So far, what @Fredymrt is the best post of the latest, because it actually uses some evidence of first eye observers.
The rest, can't be changed. This subject has been discussed before, so don't get hanged up on it again.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - IñigoMontoya - 09-04-2017
Ah, Ok. Sorry I dont explain me well. (English is not my native language).
I mixed the EP events with the possibility distinguish a battle of lions only with the roars. Many people claim that the EP roars are males lions fighting, I only wanted say that is imposible know this only for the roars in this and in any video.
The Makhulu roar just an example that there are very few cases of the recognize a lion for his roars.
I dont know if I explain myself now
RE: The mighty Mapogos - Chris - 09-09-2017
How is it possible that the mapogos have no sons in 6 years of reign? I find that hard to believe @Tshokwane
RE: The mighty Mapogos - HouseOfLions - 09-09-2017
(09-09-2017, 03:30 AM)Chris Wrote: How is it possible that the mapogos have no sons in 6 years of reign? I find that hard to believe @Tshokwane
The story behind that is a grim one.
1 or 2 Sub Adults to poaching snares 4 Sub adults ate a rabid dog which resulted in authorities to put them down 7 Sub adults including their 5 sons from the Sand River pride were killed by Local authorities(Hunters shot them) after their failure to bring them back into the reserve. These 12 plus the 9 they raised into adulthood is a great 21 sons and daughters combined. Add to that the unfortunate incident of Mr. T and the Ximunghue cubs. That's impressive. In fact the Mapogos are underrated in terms of siring cubs.
William Botha wrote something interesting and mentions it exactly as I mentioned. He precisely writes that the Mapogos lost too many offspring due to human factor. 1 lost to a poaching snare 4 to the rabbid dog incident and the 5 Mapogo sons and 2 females. We can't be sure that the 4 offspring who were put down by the authorities after eating the rabid dog would have been lost in the Selati take over. It's mere speculation. These circumstances were out of Mapogo control. Even if it was only a couple less, it would still be too many offspring killed by human factor. The Mapogos are underrated in siring cubs. Here is his article by William Botha. In addition the poaching of their strongest member, Dreadlocks was also key. It rapidly aged the Mapogo empire. https://m.facebook.com/groups/1428717714094423?view=permalink&id=1459234271042767
Still, too many offspring(8-9) from circumstances out of the Mapogo control. Nearly 20. Not to mention the Ximunghue cubs incident with T. The Dreadlocks poaching also effected the Mapogo reign greatly after 2010. William Botha hit it on the spot. There was a "darkside" to the Mapogo offspring. They were definitely successful in raising cubs Contrary to belief by some. But circumstances out of their control hampered their numbers. There's no denying it. Even today, two of the most successful prides today in sabi sands are Mapogo offsprings - Othawa and Mangheni.
The othawa sons of the Mapogo, which were only 2, went into the Kruger.
If you want more info, ask Fursan, he is the Mapogo historian.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - sik94 - 09-09-2017
They had two sons in the othawa pride that went into the kruger.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - Tshokwane - 09-09-2017
(09-09-2017, 03:30 AM)Chris Wrote: How is it possible that the mapogos have no sons in 6 years of reign? I find that hard to believe
As it was said, two subadults of the Othawa pride left the Sabi sands and went into the Kruger. No one knows what became of them, so there's no point in guessing.
As for the rest, some were killed as a consequence of the rabids incident, some were killed by Mr.T, others killed by the other males in displays of dominance (this was common in their first years of dominance), others were killed by the Majingilane males when they tookover, the same when the Selati males came.
As for the subadults of the Sand river pride, what House of lions leaves out, conveniently, is why they were killed. They were hunting and killing livestock in the lands of people. When the park authorities tried to push them back into the reserve, the Mapogo males chased them back out.
So, the park had little choice on the matter. If they didn't shot them, risking the lions to keep getting deeper into the people's land, and kept pushing them back in the reserve, the Mapogo themselves would have killed them.
Now, personally, I think this would have been a better outcome simply because it would have been more "natural", but it's how it is.
At the end of the day, there's no way to deny their inability to raise their offspring to adulthood until their latter years when only three remained, where the Mangheni and Othawa girls remained, while the Ximhungwe cubs were killed by T.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - LionKiss - 09-09-2017
The Sand River young Lions got out of the reserve because the fence was washed away by heavy raining, then they killed cows in the residential areas.
The Authorities returned them to the reserve but they escaped again, the 2nd time they were hunted by gunmen and they tried to return to the reserve but they did not manage.
One young male was shot in the back as he was passing under the fence into the reserve.
There is a lot of controversy in the mapogo ancestors.
MrT and KT has raised their own cubs when they were in the east and they were very caring fathers.
When MrT returned to the west he did not recognize the cubs of his brothers as his own, he wanted to mate and he killed his brothers' cubs.
@Tshokwane reminds us the tragic event with those who were euthanized because they had contacted rabies. This was another big blow for the Mapogo cubs.
In the beginning of 2012 the Mapogos should have had at least 10-12 cubs who would have raised successfully if the Selaties would not have taken over.
In the mapogo history thre were so many misfortunes and changes,
I categorically reject the opinion that MrT could not raise successfully his own cubs to maturity, he has raised his cubs in the East.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - vinodkumarn - 09-09-2017
(09-09-2017, 07:32 PM)LionKiss Wrote: The Sand River young Lions got out of the reserve because the fence was washed away by heavy raining, then they killed cows in the residential areas.
The Authorities returned them to the reserve but they escaped again, the 2nd time they were hunted by gunmen and they tried to return to the reserve but they did not manage.
One young male was shot in the back as he was passing under the fence into the reserve.
There is a lot of controversy in the mapogo ancestors.
MrT and KT has raised their own cubs when they were in the east and they were very caring fathers.
When MrT returned to the west he did not recognize the cubs of his brothers as his own, he wanted to mate and he killed his brothers' cubs.
@Tshokwane reminds us the tragic event with those who were euthanized because they had contacted rabies. This was another big blow for the Mapogo cubs.
In the beginning of 2012 the Mapogos should have had at least 10-12 cubs who would have raised successfully if the Selaties would not have taken over.
In the mapogo history thre were so many misfortunes and changes,
I categorically reject the opinion that MrT could not raise successfully his own cubs to maturity, he has raised his cubs in the East.
If I remember correctly Mr.T and KT were dominant over Torchwood pride as well and there are no much updated from the lodges reg torchwood pride!
RE: The mighty Mapogos - T Rabbit - 09-09-2017
The mapogos are not the only ones who killed their own offspring. Majingilanes killed their own tsalala cubs and matimbas their own mbiri cubs too. But majingilanes and matimbas had a lot of sons while mapogos not. Althoug some of the offspring was killed by humans the mapogos were not so lucky in have male sons. The mr.t incident And of course the majingilanes destroyed the mapogos sons in the east and selatis destroyed in the west.
RE: The mighty Mapogos - HouseOfLions - 09-09-2017
(09-09-2017, 10:14 PM)T Rabbit Wrote: The mapogos are not the only ones who killed their own offspring. Majingilanes killed their own tsalala cubs and matimbas their own mbiri cubs too. But majingilanes and matimbas had a lot of sons while mapogos not. Althoug some of the offspring was killed by humans the mapogos were not so lucky in have male sons. The mr.t incident And of course the majingilanes destroyed the mapogos sons in the east and selatis destroyed in the west.
Yes, the Mapogos were not the only one but they were the only ones who did it very frequently. And you are right about the sons thing but as I said before, that was not their fault.