(10-06-2022, 09:52 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(10-04-2022, 06:33 PM)abhisingh7 Wrote: in the video (madla capture) chundawat was seen measuring madla , you should try to contact chundawat and get measurements and final words to end this debate on madla .

I already tried, but he did not answered. Also, he already published an entire book about all his studies on tigers and even then, he did not published any data on measurements, only the weights and the conclutions that I already showed before.

Please take in count that while Madla surpassed Sauraha in canine length and neck girth, these are the only measurements that we know about him, so we can't guess if the Indian guy was actually bigger than the Nepalese one. Also, and this is very important for all us, the measurements that we know about Sauraha are those taken in 1975, when he bottomed the scale of 500 lb, so I am quite sure that he was bigger in the next captures until 1979, when he constantly bottomed the scale of 600 lb.

(10-07-2022, 12:52 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 12:44 AM)abhisingh7 Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 09:55 PM)Pckts Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 09:33 PM)Khan85 Wrote: Waghdoh's PM report

It was confirmed that he was indeed weighed using a scale and there was only some undigested food in him, not gorged. 

Who confirmed that if you don't mind? 
Again the verbiage of "approx" is concerning.

Also can you find out the protocol used?
His measurements are fairly normal for a large male except for a shorter shoulder height. He's got good length but short shoulder and a decent chest, so overall he's definitely a good sized male which we all knew but protocol will make a big difference. 
If we were to compare him to Branders and assuming Wagdoh was measured in a straight line, Waghdoh would be shorter in length and shoulder and smaller at the chest. So with all things equal, it's safe to assume Wagdoh was probably a 225-250kg Male when empty.

in his prime wagdoh should be 250kg  or even 270 i would belive , but at old age he looked a lot shurnked , he lost huge amout of bulk, he was visibly a lot smaller in last 2-3 years of his life , could be 210kg too at the time of death or 240kg with content.

I’d agree with that, I’d say closer to the 250kg range though. 
Also what needs to be taken into account is the fact that these dead cats are bloated in the early stages which is noted on the report. That also could exaggerate their girth which deserves to be mentioned as well.

(10-06-2022, 11:20 PM)Ashutosh Wrote: @GuateGojira, he was 19 years old when he died not 13-15. He was one of the oldest surviving tigers that we knew about and unlike Machli, he wasn’t propped up artificially with live bait.

(10-06-2022, 10:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 09:55 PM)Pckts Wrote: Again the verbiage of "approx" is concerning.

I don't think so, the scales are not always exact, there are a few grams more or less, so the word "approx" just suggest to use round numbers. That is what I think, and that is why also some body masses in popular books are just rounded, that is what Dr Karanth explained to me, at least.

(10-06-2022, 09:54 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 09:33 PM)Khan85 Wrote: Waghdoh's PM report

It was confirmed that he was indeed weighed using a scale and there was only some undigested food in him, not gorged. 

*This image is copyright of its original author

   

*This image is copyright of its original author

   

*This image is copyright of its original author

   

Great information!!!

I am a little blind, the weight says 240 or 270?

(10-07-2022, 02:58 AM)abhisingh7 Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 10:21 PM)GuateGojira Wrote:

(10-06-2022, 09:55 PM)Pckts Wrote: Again the verbiage of "approx" is concerning.

I don't think so, the scales are not always exact, there are a few grams more or less, so the word "approx" just suggest to use round numbers. That is what I think, and that is why also some body masses in popular books are just rounded, that is what Dr Karanth explained to me, at least.

whats ur view on bloating guate , how much it can increase the weight ?

(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.

We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age)

The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg.

So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely).

(10-07-2022, 09:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.

We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age)

The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg.

So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely).

Your claim is extremely flawed.
You have numerous Tigers who are longer, taller and thicker with weights of 230kgs or less.

(10-07-2022, 09:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.

We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age)

The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg.

So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely).

Your claim is extremely flawed.
You have numerous Tigers who are longer, taller and thicker with weights of 230kgs or less.

Quote:I don’t know how specifically big cats age and at what rate do their height and width shrink (of course varies upon individuals), but surely there is some loss there too. And, in case of Waghdoh that loss would be more pronounced considering how long he lived.

Quote:Just for reference sake, look at his son Shiva, who himself at 12 years old is really thick. Shiva looks a bit longer and taller than his father, but, Waghdoh in his prime was definitely heftier of the two.

(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? That's very unlikely.

We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age)

The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg.

So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely).

(10-07-2022, 11:49 AM)LonePredator Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 09:58 AM)Pckts Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? No way. That's very unlikely.

We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age)

The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg.

So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely).

Your claim is extremely flawed.
You have numerous Tigers who are longer, taller and thicker with weights of 230kgs or less.

The most unbelievable thing about your claim is that you seem to be implying that a Tiger can be longer, taller and thicker than another Tiger but still weigh less. That’s what you are implying, aren’t you??

So basically you are implying that one Tiger can have wayy higher volume than another Tiger but still weigh less than the other Tiger? Then for your information, what you are implying is simply *impossible*.

You don’t even need any complex knowledge of physics or biology to realise this. All Tigers are made of flesh and blood and bones. It’s not like one Tiger is made of metal and the other is made of flesh. All Tigers are basically made up of the same matter.

Things such as Body composition and bone density (basically BMI) can make minimal differences but they are negligible and not nearly enough to make up for huge volume differences between the two specimens unless the Tiger is extremely fat or emaciated.

And even then BMI in Tigers probably doesn’t even vary as much as it does in humans. Do you think it’s possible for a man who is 6’3” and has the same physique as Brock Lesnar to weigh 70kg?? No, it’s not possible. It defies all science.

To conclude: What you are describing is simply impossible according to science.

And this is not the first time you are making unscientific claims. You have once previously claimed that Jaguars are ‘denser’ than Tigers just because they have shorter legs.

You should think about what you are speaking because your claims are just defying all proven science.

(10-07-2022, 04:18 PM)GreenForest Wrote:

(10-07-2022, 05:12 AM)LonePredator Wrote: A bodylength of 208cm with one of the bulkiest frames and yet a weight of just 250kg in his prime? That's very unlikely.

We can do some simple isometric calculations with the 208cm bodylength to estimate his prime weight (I'm using bodylength because it has the best correlation with weight and also because Wagdoh's chest girth would have shrunk in old age)

The isometric calculation gives a weight of 288kg using a 190cm, 220kg Tiger as surrogate and 278kg using a 190cm, 212kg Tiger as surrogate. And even if I make the most strict calculation with a 190cm, 200kg Tiger (which should cause an underestimation), it still gives 262kg.

So logically speaking, from the body length given in this document, I don't think there's any way his prime weight could be as low as 250kg. That's just too low UNLESS THE LENGTH MENTIONED WAS TAKEN OVER THE CURVES (which is also very unlikely).

You are spot on in your estimation. There is absolutely no doubt he is 300kg specimen at his prime. A record holder tiger. His body length is 11cm longer than 261kg Sauraha male. I always said Wagdoh is a long body male, massive in bulk, measurements. Obviously some people have preconceived biased opinion that tadoba tigers are smaller, shorter than other park tiger. They can't digest this. It must be a good lesson for them.    If Wagdoh can weigh 270kg at 19 years of age, then easily add another 50kg to his prime weight. No rocket science here.