+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Tiger (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-tiger)
+----- Thread: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers (/topic-modern-weights-and-measurements-on-wild-tigers)
Pages:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Pckts - 09-06-2022
(09-06-2022, 07:25 PM)Jerricson Wrote: I messaged a WII researcher, who actively takes part in tiger collaring ,regarding the body mass of largest male and female he's come across . Unfortunately , regarding females , he didn't have much idea but for the male , this was what he said :
"I'll check records. As far as I remember , the largest male weighed 244 kg . He was darted on a kill in Maharashtra."
Any chance you can ask which reserve?
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Jerricson - 09-06-2022
(09-06-2022, 09:25 PM)Pckts Wrote:When they refer to approx. body mass , I'm guessing they might've rounded off the figure since the animal would've weighed very close to that value(260 kg).(09-05-2022, 02:42 AM)abhisingh7 Wrote:(09-05-2022, 12:29 AM)Pckts Wrote:(09-04-2022, 01:39 PM)Khan85 Wrote: T28 Sitara's post mortem report and some information about Panna tigers
Panna tigers
Interesting thing to notice: The combination used on Panna tigers since 2012 is xylazine and ketamine. Xylazine is an effective sedative analgesic that induces vomiting in cats particularly when administered through subcutaneous or intramuscular routes. This same mixture has been used in recent tiger tranquilizations as well, like in Maharashtra ( was used on tigers Gabbar and Jai).
Good stuff, it mentions the weight as an approximate, do you know if he was for sure weighed or just estimated?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hJT8SAAwgA MT3 too died in the same period , they measured mt3 243kg and 192kg(after death due to sickness) using spring scale as seen in the video . they carry scales so should have weighted it too .
Unfortunately not every capture is the same and scales aren't always present. Definitely possible that he was weighed but the writing of "estimated" should give some pause.
That being said, T28 was the largest male in Ranthambore for some time, at least quoted by many as such. I know Fetah was said to be bulkier but not as large in frame and Ustaad was similar in size to them. But if and that's a big "if" all things are similar between T28 and MB2, they both are very close in dimensions to one another and that gives you an idea of just how massive Umarpani is and the big boys in Kanha altogether. But again it's a huge "if" since measurements can be done differently from person to person.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Roflcopters - 09-06-2022
both MH and MP have some big genes, that’s for sure! tfs @Jerricson
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - GreenForest - 09-07-2022
T24 before shifted to zoo. He had full belly.
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Charger01 - 09-07-2022
(09-07-2022, 12:45 AM)GreenForest Wrote: T24 before shifted to zoo. He had full belly.
*This image is copyright of its original author
More like his side pushing against the edge of the platform they're pushing him on to.
[attachment=8850]
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - abhisingh7 - 09-09-2022
(09-07-2022, 12:45 AM)GreenForest Wrote: T24 before shifted to zoo. He had full belly.
*This image is copyright of its original author
ustaad has hbl of nearly 2m between pegs , he looks very long. he weight is said to be 258kg empty on ranthambhore papers , that information can be extracted .
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - GreenForest - 09-09-2022
@abhisingh7 That picture was taken at his last capture, before he was shifted to zoo. He had full belly as you can see. So, How come the claim that he weighed 258kg on empty is true? As far as i know, there is no such paper exists either with forest department or in any scientific publication.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - abhisingh7 - 09-09-2022
(09-09-2022, 06:30 PM)GreenForest Wrote: @abhisingh7 That picture was taken at his last capture, before he was shifted to zoo. He had full belly as you can see. So, How come the claim that he weighed 258kg on empty is true? As far as i know, there is no such paper exists either with forest department or in any scientific publication.
why are u sure there is no such paper exists? , we just seen the post-martem report of male tiger star . if he was captured there is extremely high chance he would have been measured and weighted .
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - peter - 09-10-2022
(09-09-2022, 11:55 PM)abhisingh7 Wrote:(09-09-2022, 06:30 PM)GreenForest Wrote: @abhisingh7 That picture was taken at his last capture, before he was shifted to zoo. He had full belly as you can see. So, How come the claim that he weighed 258kg on empty is true? As far as i know, there is no such paper exists either with forest department or in any scientific publication.
why are u sure there is no such paper exists? , we just seen the post-martem report of male tiger star . if he was captured there is extremely high chance he would have been measured and weighted . this paltform is not for trolls i guess .
The question of GreenForest is justified, the answer is insultive. The advice is to watch your tongue, 7.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - abhisingh7 - 09-10-2022
(09-10-2022, 03:00 AM)peter Wrote:(09-09-2022, 11:55 PM)abhisingh7 Wrote:(09-09-2022, 06:30 PM)GreenForest Wrote: @abhisingh7 That picture was taken at his last capture, before he was shifted to zoo. He had full belly as you can see. So, How come the claim that he weighed 258kg on empty is true? As far as i know, there is no such paper exists either with forest department or in any scientific publication.
why are u sure there is no such paper exists? , we just seen the post-martem report of male tiger star . if he was captured there is extremely high chance he would have been measured and weighted . this paltform is not for trolls i guess .
The question of GreenForest is justified, the answer is insultive. The advice is to watch your tongue, 7.
okkk i got it , how he knows there is no such paper and how he knows he wasn't weighted? he can say it doesn't looks that big to him or ask about papers or source but how he is sure there is no such paper ? about that had he have any evidence then ? the same thing has become repeatative , sorry for the some harsh words like troll, but the guy need to do some reaseach about it himself becoz a lot of people have differenet opinion than him , its always wise to accept the mistake and correct yourself instead of defending the wrong .https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-others/big-picture-the-fate-debate-of-ranthambore-tiger-ustad-aka-t24/ ......... we have a lot of other data like mt3 of ranthambhore 243kg , st 1 220kg at age 3.5yr and its well known fact ustaad was bigger tiger than these males , he can just ask the various photograpers or guides who are on social media . ustaad can be upto 260kgs there is no such rocket science in it .
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Roflcopters - 09-10-2022
tbh you’re both right in your own ways. i’d just take it easy and keep the discussion healthy. also you’re right. Ustaad, T28 aka Starmale and Qualji male or T42/Fateh were three of the biggest males in their days. generation after them was just as impressive. specially the duo brothers T57/T58. T108 and T101(Badal or hades) and T120/Yoda/Ganesh when he puts on mass will be up there.
*This image is copyright of its original author
T42/Fateh from 2017 - check the size of his paw compared to one of the big logs.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - abhisingh7 - 09-10-2022
(09-10-2022, 08:54 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: tbh you’re both right in your own ways. i’d just take it easy and keep the discussion healthy. also you’re right. Ustaad, T28 aka Starmale and Qualji male or T42/Fateh were three of the biggest males in their days. generation after them was just as impresive. specially the duo brothers T57/T58. T108 and T101(Badal or hades) and T120/Yoda/Ganesh when he puts on mass will be up there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzubCFbY9OA&t=1s close view prime t42 here .
*This image is copyright of its original author
T42/Fateh from 2017 - check the size of his paw compared to one of the big logs.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - abhisingh7 - 09-11-2022
(09-10-2022, 09:41 PM)abhisingh7 Wrote:https://www.hindustantimes.com/jaipur/sariska-tiger-s-death-no-accident-farmer-who-surrendered-is-a-poacher-say-officials/story-nw6YNdx3nW2xHMSrGvWNiJ.html , sariska male st11(09-10-2022, 08:54 PM)Roflcopters Wrote: tbh you’re both right in your own ways. i’d just take it easy and keep the discussion healthy. also you’re right. Ustaad, T28 aka Starmale and Qualji male or T42/Fateh were three of the biggest males in their days. generation after them was just as impresive. specially the duo brothers T57/T58. T108 and T101(Badal or hades) and T120/Yoda/Ganesh when he puts on mass will be up there.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzubCFbY9OA&t=1s close view prime t42 here .
*This image is copyright of its original author
T42/Fateh from 2017 - check the size of his paw compared to one of the big logs.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Roflcopters - 09-11-2022
*This image is copyright of its original author
Fateh’s pugmarks on a safari vehicle tire tread
*This image is copyright of its original author
here you can see it more clear, his paw directly on a safari vehicle tire tread. he had a fierce reputation in Ranthambore and was known as one of the most aggressive male in the park. he also killed two males in a fight. T36 and T109 were both killed by Fateh.
T36 (below)
http://www.navinraheja.com/articles-story8.html
T109 (below)
https://ranthambhorenationalpark.in/blog/injured-tiger-t-109-dies-ranthambore-national-park?format=amp
I apologize for hijacking this thread with out of topic content, this is gonna be my last post here for a bit.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - peter - 09-11-2022
(09-11-2022, 12:19 PM)Roflcopters Wrote:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Fateh’s pugmarks on a safari vehicle tire tread
*This image is copyright of its original author
here you can see it more clear, his paw directly on a safari vehicle tire tread. he had a fierce reputation in Ranthambore and was known as one of the most aggressive male in the park. he also killed two males in a fight. T36 and T109 were both killed by Fateh.
T36 (below)
http://www.navinraheja.com/articles-story8.html
T109 (below)
https://ranthambhorenationalpark.in/blog/injured-tiger-t-109-dies-ranthambore-national-park?format=amp
I apologize for hijacking this thread with out of topic content, this is gonna be my last post here for a bit.
COPTERS
This is how it's done: good information and respect. Excellent contribution.
ABOUT POSTING
This forum is about the natural world. What we want is good information and, when members interact, respect. Respect for good information, forum rules and each other. When members disagree, a debate can follow. A debate based on good arguments and respect, that is. That important? Yes. If a member posts good information and adds insult, a warning will follow. One. Not two.
THE SIZE OF TIGERS IN INDIA
India has a lot of national parks and tiger reserves. Although most of them are smallish, biologists think there could be at least 3,000 adult wild tigers in all of India, meaby a bit more. A great achievement for a country that has over 1,5 billion people.
In the old days, most tigers shot by hunters were measured and, if possible, weighed. Taking 'correct measurements' of large tigers was a sport within a 'sport'. Some hunters wrote books in which large tigers featured, but most didn't. Some of those that didn't wrote letters to the JBNHS and other magazines. Going over everything I found in books and magazines, I'd say there's quite a bit of good information about the size of tigers up to, say, 1950.
Today, tigers are protected. The only people who have an opportunity to measure and weigh wild tigers are tiger biologists. Although some of them provided information about some individuals, I've yet to see a peer-reviewed document with good information about the length and weight of wild tigers. Same for skulls. As a result, it isn't easy to get to sound conclusions about the size of adult tigers. It is to be expected that the lack of good information will result in confusion. When members discuss the size of tigers in India today, this has to be kept in mind.
As a result of the lack of accurate and reliable information, those interested in the length and weight of wild tigers have no other option but to use information collected by hunters and Forest Officers a long time ago.
The 42 male tigers shot in central India and measured 'between pegs' by Dunbar Brander over a century ago averaged 9.3 (281,94 cm) and 420 pounds (190,51 kg), whereas 39 females averaged 8.4 (254,00 cm) and 290 pounds (131,54 kg). The longest tiger measured 'between pegs' in this region was 10.3 (312,42 cm), but the heaviest was a male of 9.11 (302,26 cm) with a head and body length of 7.3 (220,98 cm). Most unfortunately, this tiger wasn't weighed.
I've quite a few books in which tigers shot in central parts of India feature. In the days these books were published, adult male tigers, according to those who knew (referring to experience) averaged 9.4 - 9.6 (284,48 - 289,56 cm) 'between pegs'. The great majority of those shot ranged between 380-500 pounds (172,37 - 226,80 kg), but some were quite a bit heavier. Not one of these giants was weighed, but those with experience (forest officers and hunters) thought they ranged between 600-700 pounds (272,16 - 317,52 kg). The longest males measured 'between pegs' I found were 10.6 (320,04 cm) and 10.4 (314,96 cm). Males of this size, even back then, were few and far between.
As a general rule, tigers shot in the northwestern part of what used to be British India, compared to those shot in central India, were a bit longer and heavier (referring to averages), whereas those shot in the northeastern part were about similar in length, but heavier. Although many assume tigers shot in the southwestern part of India, compared to those shot in central India, were smaller, the information I found suggests they compared for total length measured 'between pegs'. The longest male measured in this way in this part of India was 10.2 (309,88 cm), but reliable observers and hunters saw individuals they described as 'immense' in jungles where they could walk for weeks without seeing a soul. Not seldom, these males were quite old (15-20 years of age).
The only region where tigers seemed to be a bit smaller was southeast India. Some adult males shot and measured in that part of India compared to large males from Sumatra for length and weight, but those who had shot tigers in both regions thought Sumatrans had relatively larger skulls.
Talking about skulls. The longest skull measured by V. Mazak ('Der Tiger', third edition, 1983), at 378 mm, was just under 15 inches (381,0 mm), but reliable hunters and observers wrote the longest skulls measured in the correct way (the distance between the insertion of the incisors in the upper jaw to the last part of the condylae measured in a straight line) ranged between 15-16 inches (381,0 - 406,4 mm). The information I have strongly suggests tigers in northern and northeastern India produced the longest skulls (referring to averages), but tigers shot in the northeastern part of India might have had the heaviest skulls.
As to regional differences in size. The information I have (referring to total length measured 'between pegs', weight and skull size) suggests tigers in northern India were larger than elsewhere, but large individuals, like in African lions, were shot in nearly all parts of what used to be British India (including Burma and the southern tip of Malaysia). With 'large', I mean males exceeding 9.6 (289,56 cm) and 500 pounds (226,80 kg).
And what about tigers today? Today, tigers are protected. Almost a century ago, the difference between male tigers shot in a region where they were hunted (northern India) and not hunted (Nepal) was about 4 inches (10,16 cm) measured 'over curves'. Recent information, however, suggests there's, lengthwise, little to choose between tigers today and tigers shot a century ago. Today's tigers, however, seem to be heavier. This could be a result of more prey animals and more competition.
Captive male tigers in India (referring to recent information based on a largish sample) range between 380-465 pounds (172,37 - 210,65 kg). The average, depending on the sample, seems to range between 400-420 pounds (181,44 - 190,51 kg), let's say 410 pounds (185,97 kg). Their wild relatives, depending on the region selected, might have 50 pounds (22,68 kg) on them (at the level of averages), maybe a bit more in some regions. Although most of those interested in big tigers wouldn't be impressed, I agree with Dunbar Brander and many others who had the opportunity to compare tigers born in captivity with wild tigers: wild tigers are much more dense, muscular and athletic. They also have a very different attitude. Same for lions. PC saw wild lions and tigers from up close. Ask him about their attitude towards humans. What I can tell you is a big cat of 400 pounds in good condition is quite something to behold.
A FEW PICS
Here's a few photographs showing (the pugmarks of) large male Indian tigers to finish the post.
1 - Rajaji
Copters first posted this photograph some years ago. It still is the most impressive I saw. Remember pugmarks are the best indicator of size:
*This image is copyright of its original author
2 - Close to Bhutan
A pugmark of the largest tiger Bengt Berg saw. He could have shot it, but didn't want to. The owner of this pugmark hunted wild male buffalos. The bigger, the better. He was a true specialist. Not seldom, Berg found the horns of the bulls he killed sticking into the mud. Berg didn't try to get to an estimate, but the longest and heaviest he shot, also in that region, was 9.7 (292,10 cm) and 565 pounds (256,28 kg). More than once, he said that tiger was dwarfed by the buffalo hunter from Bhutan. Dwarfed at 565 pounds. Right:
*This image is copyright of its original author
3 - Corbett
I like paws and pugmarks. So does the man holding the front leg of this male tiger:
*This image is copyright of its original author
4 - Dudhwa
Great photograph showing a well-developed male:
*This image is copyright of its original author
5 - Kheri
Once known for the size of the tigers, Kheri still produces large individuals. This male seems to be about average in most respects, but he was quite long (referring to head and body length) and well built. It is a great pity farmers sometimes solve problems with big cats with poison:
*This image is copyright of its original author
6 - Deolapar
This male, also poisoned, was a subadult. In spite of his age, he was impressive in all respects. The length of the legs is remarkable:
*This image is copyright of its original author
7 - Central India
This photograph (H. Flynn) was first posted by PC. Although not outstanding in the size department, this male tiger (known as 'Mamu'), to quote Dunbar Brander, was well developed in all respects:
*This image is copyright of its original author
8 - Nilgiris
This male, inflated as a result of death, was large for the region. Most unfortunately, he also was poisoned:
*This image is copyright of its original author