WildFact
Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Printable Version

+- WildFact (https://wildfact.com/forum)
+-- Forum: Information Section (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-information-section)
+--- Forum: Terrestrial Wild Animals (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-terrestrial-wild-animals)
+---- Forum: Wild Cats (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-wild-cats)
+----- Forum: Lion (https://wildfact.com/forum/forum-lion)
+----- Thread: Coalitions of Kruger National Park (/topic-coalitions-of-kruger-national-park)

Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267 268 269 270 271 272 273 274 275 276 277 278 279 280 281 282 283 284 285 286 287 288 289 290 291 292 293 294 295 296 297 298 299 300 301 302 303 304 305 306 307 308 309 310 311 312 313 314 315 316 317 318 319 320 321 322 323 324 325 326 327 328 329 330 331 332 333 334 335 336 337 338 339 340 341 342 343 344 345 346 347 348 349 350 351 352 353 354 355 356 357 358 359 360 361 362 363 364 365 366 367 368 369 370 371 372 373 374 375 376 377 378 379 380 381 382 383 384 385 386 387 388 389 390 391 392 393 394 395 396 397 398 399 400 401 402 403 404 405 406 407 408 409 410 411 412 413 414 415 416 417 418 419 420 421 422 423 424 425 426 427 428 429 430 431 432 433 434 435 436 437 438 439 440 441 442 443 444 445 446 447 448 449 450 451 452 453 454 455 456 457 458 459 460 461 462 463 464 465 466 467 468 469 470 471 472 473 474 475 476 477 478 479 480 481 482 483 484 485 486 487 488 489 490 491 492 493 494 495 496 497 498 499 500 501 502 503 504 505 506 507 508 509 510 511 512 513 514 515 516 517 518 519 520 521 522 523 524 525 526 527 528 529 530 531 532 533 534 535 536 537 538 539 540 541 542 543 544 545 546 547 548 549 550 551 552 553 554 555 556 557 558 559 560 561 562 563 564 565 566 567 568 569 570 571 572 573 574 575 576 577 578 579 580 581 582 583 584 585 586 587 588 589 590 591 592 593 594 595 596 597 598 599 600 601 602 603 604 605 606 607 608 609 610 611 612 613 614 615 616 617 618 619 620 621 622 623 624 625 626 627 628 629 630 631 632 633 634 635 636 637 638 639 640 641 642 643 644 645 646 647 648 649 650 651 652 653 654 655 656 657 658 659 660 661 662 663 664 665 666 667 668 669 670 671 672 673 674 675 676 677 678 679 680 681 682 683 684 685 686 687 688 689 690 691 692 693 694 695 696 697 698 699 700 701 702 703 704 705 706 707 708 709 710 711 712 713 714 715 716 717 718 719 720 721 722 723 724 725 726 727 728 729 730 731 732 733 734 735 736 737 738 739 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749 750 751 752 753 754 755 756 757 758 759 760 761 762 763 764 765 766 767 768 769 770 771 772 773 774 775 776 777 778 779 780 781 782 783 784 785

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - BA0701 - 08-25-2023

(08-25-2023, 07:17 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(08-25-2023, 06:20 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Was this male branded? That scar seems awfully symmetrical.

Yes, if im not mistaken these guys where darted and weighted/observed back in the day, from that comes rumors of them being "biggest lions in Kruger".

But i dont think that info was ever released in public, atleast i didnt find any, maybe there is.

Ok, that makes sense, big boy for sure. I wonder why, if it exists, they won't release that kind of data, sure would end a lot of debates on the subject, or simply stop them before they started.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - T I N O - 08-25-2023

(08-25-2023, 07:57 PM)BA0701 Wrote:
(08-25-2023, 07:17 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(08-25-2023, 06:20 PM)BA0701 Wrote: Was this male branded? That scar seems awfully symmetrical.

Yes, if im not mistaken these guys where darted and weighted/observed back in the day, from that comes rumors of them being "biggest lions in Kruger".

But i dont think that info was ever released in public, atleast i didnt find any, maybe there is.

Ok, that makes sense, big boy for sure. I wonder why, if it exists, they won't release that kind of data, sure would end a lot of debates on the subject, or simply stop them before they started.
The Skybed males were also branded by the letter C
They were branded with the letter C on their back leg, that was because they were inoculated by a vet due to a rabies scare.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Mapokser - 08-25-2023

@Tr1x24 I remember multiple people claiming they weighed 635lbs and 683lbs respectively, saying there was a sheet from the vet who weighed them, with their info from the darting.

Though nobody has ever showed any actual evidence of it. 683lbs, even if it was a full stomach weight, it'd be a record.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Tr1x24 - 08-26-2023

(08-25-2023, 11:32 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Tr1x24 I remember multiple people claiming they weighed 635lbs and 683lbs respectively, saying there was a sheet from the vet who weighed them, with their info from the darting.

Though nobody has ever showed any actual evidence of it. 683lbs, even if it was a full stomach weight, it'd be a record.

Thats what, 280- 300kg? Maybe with extreme full belly male can reach that, as they can eat 30-40 kg of meat, this is picture of 1 Leeubron male with full belly back in early 2018 by Big on Wild:


*This image is copyright of its original author


But would they dart him when he is that full? That might bring complications, i think its not recommended to sedative anyone with full belly.

So yea, if they where not full like this, i dont think those numbers are correct.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - T I N O - 08-26-2023

Leeubron males are something else. Just like the Black dam male, a true beast of male lion he was

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Mapokser - 08-26-2023

@Tr1x24 some lions were weighed with full stomachs in the past so I'm not sure if it would cause any problems. But they normally use baits to dart them. Iirc the biggest lion from Kruger weighed by Smuts in the 80s was 250kg but had a full stomach and was estimated at 225 empty.

683lb is exactly 309kg, coincidentally the number given to a lion also weighed with a full stomach in the 90s, which was witnessed by Rob the Ranger in the Waterberg Biosphere.

I'm not sure if that reserve is big enough to have real competition though, many small reserves have like only 1 pride and coalition so they have an easy life and often grow bigger than the average ( and even become fat ) plus when the reserve owners go looking for new males to introduce to diversify the gene pool, they'd obviously look for big and healthy males.

So this may or may not be the reason why this 90s lion was so huge ( again I don't know anything about that reserve ). However Leeubrons live a fully normal and wild life facing plenty of competition and were born without "eugenics" so to get to such a weight ( if true ) it'd be insane, even with a full stomach ( since let's be honest 309kg with an empty stomach is completely impossible ).

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Lipstick2 - 08-26-2023

(08-25-2023, 07:53 PM)Timbavati Wrote:
(08-25-2023, 07:33 PM)Mdz123 Wrote: The Biyamitis


They're looking in excellent shape

Yeah, i agree. The Biyamitis are something specials (especially with their 2/3 distinctive blue coloured blind eyes on their opposite sides). 
Could we know anything about their origins?

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - BigLion39 - 08-26-2023

(08-26-2023, 06:49 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i agree. The Biyamitis are something specials (especially with their 2/3 distinctive blue coloured blind eyes on their opposite sides). 
Could we know anything about their origins?

Aren't they sons of Eastern Bank Males?

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Brahim - 08-26-2023

Those weights are usually made up by people on Facebook with no reports actually existing

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Lipstick2 - 08-26-2023

(08-26-2023, 10:42 AM)BigLion39 Wrote:
(08-26-2023, 06:49 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i agree. The Biyamitis are something specials (especially with their 2/3 distinctive blue coloured blind eyes on their opposite sides). 
Could we know anything about their origins?

Aren't they sons of Eastern Bank Males?

Yeah, i also have heard that meanwhile. 
I'm a bit wonder, because they don't show so much similarities with them imho. In which exact area they extended their territories right this time?

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Tr1x24 - 08-26-2023

(08-26-2023, 02:56 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i also have heard that meanwhile. 
I'm a bit wonder, because they don't show so much similarities with them imho. In which exact area they extended their territories right this time?

They are sons of EBMs and are very similar to them, aswell to their grandfathers, Toulon males.

Here Silver eyed male and Diamond face Toulon:


*This image is copyright of its original author


They are territorial west of Skukuza on S1, near Kruger Gate, s65 road / Nwaswitshaka waterhole. 

They first ousted last Mpondo Snip Tail from Nwaswitshaka area later in 2021, then later in 2022 they expanded further north on S1, area which was occupied by 3 Renosterkoppies, they are prob the ones who mauled DM Renosterkoppies, which was prob fatal as he was not seen since.

These guys were nomads since around 2 yrs of age, when their fathers lost territory to either Mjejanes, Mpondo or Young Jocks, maybe even mixture of those, as they where picked 1by1.

After ~2 years of long nomadic life, they succeeded, at quite young age, they where around 4 when they ousted Snip Tail.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Brahim - 08-26-2023

Young Nkaya pan male.
Credit: Alberto Scattolin

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Lipstick2 - 08-26-2023

(08-26-2023, 03:50 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(08-26-2023, 02:56 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: Yeah, i also have heard that meanwhile. 
I'm a bit wonder, because they don't show so much similarities with them imho. In which exact area they extended their territories right this time?

They are sons of EBMs and are very similar to them, aswell to their grandfathers, Toulon males.

Here Silver eyed male and Diamond face Toulon:


*This image is copyright of its original author


They are territorial west of Skukuza on S1, near Kruger Gate, s65 road / Nwaswitshaka waterhole. 

They first ousted last Mpondo Snip Tail from Nwaswitshaka area later in 2021, then later in 2022 they expanded further north on S1, area which was occupied by 3 Renosterkoppies, they are prob the ones who mauled DM Renosterkoppies, which was prob fatal as he was not seen since.

These guys were nomads since around 2 yrs of age, when their fathers lost territory to either Mjejanes, Mpondo or Young Jocks, maybe even mixture of those, as they where picked 1by1.

After ~2 years of long nomadic life, they succeeded, at quite young age, they where around 4 when they ousted Snip Tail.

Thank you so much for your discussion. 
Indeed, they have face similarities from these pics, probably im just forgot the Toulon males' appearance 'cause didn't see them so long after/since they were ousted by the 5 Mantimahles from the southern SS. But i'm still seeing a major difference between them as if Biyamitis would have slightly longer manes than the Toulons had. 

So, they are quitely a succesful coalition for now. From their locations, is this means they're near to the 3 Phabeni males (and Fourways Blondie) and the 3 Yong Jocks/Berg en dal or which coalitions are they surrounded by?

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Tr1x24 - 08-26-2023

(08-26-2023, 05:09 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: So, they are quitely a succesful coalition for now. From their locations, is this means they're near to the 3 Phabeni males (and Fourways Blondie) and the 3 Yong Jocks/Berg en dal or which coalitions are they surrounded by?

West of them along S1 at Nyamundwa Dam are 2 Kambulas and Pretoriuskop male, looks like new territorial males there after Blodie and 3rd Phabeni.

Southwest of them, around Transport Dam , 2 Renosterkoppies males made appearence with a pride.

Southeast are s35 and KT Lubyelubye.

East around Skukuza are Nkhulus currently.

No, 3 Phabeni are further southwest, at Shitlave Dam and Pretoriuskop, and young Jocks are waaay down south.

RE: Coalitions of Kruger National Park - Lipstick2 - 08-26-2023

(08-26-2023, 06:08 PM)Tr1x24 Wrote:
(08-26-2023, 05:09 PM)Lipstick2 Wrote: So, they are quitely a succesful coalition for now. From their locations, is this means they're near to the 3 Phabeni males (and Fourways Blondie) and the 3 Yong Jocks/Berg en dal or which coalitions are they surrounded by?

West of them along S1 at Nyamundwa Dam are 2 Kambulas and Pretoriuskop male, looks like new territorial males there after Blodie and 3rd Phabeni.

Southwest of them, around Transport Dam , 2 Renosterkoppies males made appearence with a pride.

Southeast are s35 and KT Lubyelubye.

East around Skukuza are Nkhulus currently.

No, 3 Phabeni are further southwest, at Shitlave Dam and Pretoriuskop, and young Jocks are waaay down south.

So, the 3 Phabenis and Fourways Blondie have splitted up? That's interesting. (I couldn't follow to most of the Kruger processes recently.)

And what's up with last 2 Mjejanes? I've heard that last time, they're also near the area from the south probably, or are they also far more down to south like the Young Jocks? I didn't see so many updates on them recently.