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+----- Thread: Amur Tigers (/topic-amur-tigers)
RE: Amur Tigers - juhu2010 - 10-31-2022
*This image is copyright of its original author
m26
RE: Amur Tigers - Apex Titan - 11-03-2022
Adult male tiger from Northeast China Tiger and Leopard National Park:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Tigress from Northeast China Tiger and Leopard National Park:
*This image is copyright of its original author
Huge size difference between an Amur tiger and Amur leopard:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Amur Tigers - Apex Titan - 11-22-2022
The tiger named Thunder finally established itself as the sole ruler of the south of the Jewish Autonomous Region and was noted on almost all camera traps on all routes. The male is in excellent shape: in winter he is well-fed and strong, and with the onset of the warm season, he is fried.
With nutrition, the mighty predator is all right. In his hunting area, cameras recorded a large number of ungulates and his other potential victims. These are roe deer, deer, elk, there are wild boars, many bears and small animals.
At least three tigresses live permanently on Grom's site: Svetlaya, Lazovka, and Philippa. Recall that Svetlaya, as it became known in December 2021, has already brought at least two cubs from Grom. This is the third litter for the tigress. The first two were from Grom's father, a tiger named Boris.
Full report here:
http://amur-tiger.ru/ru/press_center/news/1775/
RE: Amur Tigers - ganidat - 11-24-2022
Anyone has info of this tiger? What is the original picture?
RE: Amur Tigers - Apex Titan - 11-24-2022
A large male tiger in Lazovsky Nature Reserve (2018):
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Amur Tigers - Apex Titan - 11-29-2022
An adult male tiger in Primorye (2022):
*This image is copyright of its original author
A tigress with one of her 3 cubs in January, 2022:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Amur Tigers - juhu2010 - 12-03-2022
(11-24-2022, 03:13 AM)ganidat Wrote: Anyone has info of this tiger? What is the original picture?
*This image is copyright of its original author
This is a captive male Amur tiger
RE: Amur Tigers - johnny rex - 12-08-2022
@peter said here https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=180466#pid180466 since I can't post on the thread, I will post in this thread instead.
"The average greatest total skull length of captive male Amur tigers (referring to the tables in post 2,579) is 357,5 mm (range 332,5-380,0/n=16), but my guess is V. Mazak, who wrote male Amur tigers average 367,10 mm in greatest total length ('Der Tiger', 1983, pp. 191), could be right. The only big cat exceeding this average is the Kruger lion. In 'Brain size of the lion (Panthera leo) and the tiger (P. tigris): implications for intrageneric phylogeny, intraspecific differences and the effects of captivity', 2009, Table 4.1), Yamaguchi, one of the four authors, says males average 380 mm (n=15), whereas Indian male tigers average 351 mm (n=37).
The problem with most averages is they're based on smallish samples used time and again. I've visited many natural history museums and also saw a lot of skulls in private collections. In spite of that, it took me a long time to find even 10 skulls of captive adult male Amur tigers. Skulls of wild Amur tigers are even more elusive. You can find a few measurements of skulls of wild Amur tigers in V. Mazak's 'Notes on the Siberian long-haired tiger (Panthera tigris altaica, Temminck, 1844)', that was published in 1967 (pp. 554-559), in 'On the sexual dimorphism in the skull of the tiger (Panthera tigris)', J.H. Mazak, 2004 and in a few other books and publications, but that's it.
What is needed, is a book that has detailed information (including photographs) about skulls of wild and captive big cats. I'm not referring to a book that offers information at the level of averages only, but to a book in which every skull is discussed. It's the only way to find, and explain, the differences between species and subspecies. It's also the most effective way to describe the differences between male and female skulls and the effects of age and captivity.
The question, regarding skulls of captive big cats, is if there is a difference between head length and greatest skull length. This is needed in order to get to guesstimates. The answer is we don't know. One thing we know is there is a lot of individual variation. A few examples.
The greatest total skull length (GTL) of 'Amur' (Prague zoo), who died at age 11,5, is 371 mm. The head length of this tiger was 45 cm. The head length of his son 'Benjamin' was 42 cm. The greatest total skull length of this male, however, is 377 mm. The head length of the Duisburg zoo tiger was 50 cm. Can we use the info about 'Amur' and his son 'Benjamin' to get to a few deductions? I don't know. It's likely the skull of the Duisburg zoo tiger is over 400 mm in greatest total length, but this is an assumption only.
We also don't know if there are differences in this respect (head length and greatest total skull length) between wild and captive big cats. We do know the longest skull V. Mazak ('Der Tiger', 1983, pp. 191-193) measured was 383 mm (CBL 342 mm/ZW 268 mm). The skull was from an old male from Heilongjiang (northeastern China). Another skull, measured by Baikov and also from that region, allegedly was 16 inches in total length (406,40 mm). V. Mazak (1983, pp 193-194) thought the photograph was real. He added skulls of this size have to be expected when tigers reach an exceptional size.
And what about the skulls of the tigers shot over a century ago in Cooch Behar, the Duars and Assam by the Maharajah of Cooch Behar and his guests? Some of them ranged between 15 and 16 inches (381,0-406,4 mm). The answer, again, is we don't know. I do know there's usually a difference between a measurement taken by a hunter (or naturalist) and a measurement taken by a biologist or someone who measured a lot of big cat skulls. In a large skull, the difference can be as much as 6-7 mm (referring to my experience). My guess (referring to skulls of tigers shot in what used to be British India) is we'll never know. I do know hunters like memories. Most exceptional skull are in private collections and most owners avoid publicity.
Are skulls of lions, as many think, really longer than skulls of large wild tigers in Russia, northeastern China, Nepal, northern India and, in particular, northeastern India? Based on what I read, heard and saw, I'd say the answer is affirmative. Time and again, I noticed it's easier to find a 14-inch lion skull than a 14-inch tiger skull. At the level of individual skulls, however, things are more complicated. Skulls of large male tigers, lengthwise, (almost) compare to skulls of large male lions and my guess, for now, is wild tigers of large subspecies could have (relatively) wider (referring to the arches and the rostrum), and perhaps, heavier skulls. In order to get to a solid conclusion, we need detailed information about skulls of wild tigers in particular. The problem is only few skulls were measured a century ago. In this respect, unfortunately, the situation didn't change a lot in the last century."
Remember this picture below from https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-on-the-edge-of-extinction-a-the-tiger-panthera-tigris?pid=159586#pid159586?
[attachment=9733]
If you look closely at Prague Zoo Amur's head, his nose is very elongated. If we try to measure his head from the back of his head to his nose tip with the scale that is already given in the picture which is at 20 cm, it is exactly at 45 cm. But if we try to measure it from the back of his head to his lower teeth on his mandible instead, it is actually around 37 cm. Duisburg Zoo Amur's head seems normal compared to the Amur from the Prague Zoo.
RE: Amur Tigers - peter - 12-09-2022
JOHNNY
Thanks for the explanation.
Maybe you can add a drawing showing the point you made at a glance. This will enable our readers to give it a try themselves. You could use the Duisburg zoo tiger as an example. This tiger had a head and body length of 210 cm 'between pegs' and a head length of 50 cm:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Amur Tigers - Montezuma - 12-14-2022
@peter
Hello, i am here with a question that did you posted this video you told about a long time ago? I am very curious about it.
"There's another example of a male brown bear robbing a male tiger (in Sichote-Alin). In a video I recently found, it was stated the bear involved had plenty of options. In spite of that, he preferred the kills of the tiger. It continued for quite some time. Those observing the bear stated the tiger didn't respond. Although the video is a bit older, the information seems to be authentic. I'll post the link in the tiger extinction thread soon."
Reply #2251:
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-predation?pid=171536#pid171536
RE: Amur Tigers - peter - 12-14-2022
(12-14-2022, 01:34 AM)Montezuma Wrote: @peter
Hello, i am here with a question that did you posted this video you told about a long time ago? I am very curious about it.
"There's another example of a male brown bear robbing a male tiger (in Sichote-Alin). In a video I recently found, it was stated the bear involved had plenty of options. In spite of that, he preferred the kills of the tiger. It continued for quite some time. Those observing the bear stated the tiger didn't respond. Although the video is a bit older, the information seems to be authentic. I'll post the link in the tiger extinction thread soon."
Reply #2251:
https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-tiger-predation?pid=171536#pid171536
Hi Montezuma,
Welcome to the forum. The quote from a post in the tiger extinction thread is based on notes I made when I watched a video uploaded on YouTube some time ago. The video had a lot of information about interactions between tigers and bears in the eastern part of Sichote-Alin. Informationwise, it almost compared to a book. Most unfortunately, the video is gone. It wasn't the only one from Russia that was removed after the problems in Ukraine started.
RE: Amur Tigers - Apex Titan - 12-15-2022
Pug-mark of a huge male tiger from Northeast China:
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Amur Tigers - Pckts - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 08:02 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: Pug-mark of a huge male tiger from Northeast China:
*This image is copyright of its original author
14cm pugmarks will belong to a cat anywhere from 190-220kg or so.
RE: Amur Tigers - Apex Titan - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 09:20 PM)Pckts Wrote:(12-15-2022, 08:02 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: Pug-mark of a huge male tiger from Northeast China:
*This image is copyright of its original author
14cm pugmarks will belong to a cat anywhere from 190-220kg or so.
You think so? Isn't the average pug-mark of a male tiger around 10.5 or 11 - 12 cm? A 14 cm pug-mark should be a large male tiger.
RE: Amur Tigers - book88 - 12-15-2022
(12-15-2022, 09:25 PM)Apex Titan Wrote:(12-15-2022, 09:20 PM)Pckts Wrote:(12-15-2022, 08:02 PM)Apex Titan Wrote: Pug-mark of a huge male tiger from Northeast China:
*This image is copyright of its original author
14cm pugmarks will belong to a cat anywhere from 190-220kg or so.
You think so? Isn't the average pug-mark of a male tiger around 10.5 or 11 - 12 cm? A 14 cm pug-mark should be a large male tiger.
Yes, it is a big male.
Please read this information: http://programmes.putin.kremlin.ru/en/tiger/news/25452