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+----- Thread: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers (/topic-modern-weights-and-measurements-on-wild-tigers)
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RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Pckts - 07-06-2022
sid_dtr
when caught he was over 250 kg as per first hand information shared by a very reliable source i cant name
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Roflcopters - 07-07-2022
Dudhwa, what a disaster. catching the wrong tiger and keeping him captive for this long. bs park management. they need to learn from their neighbors on the other side of the border. Also, I think the source is most likely Dr Parag Nigam. he was involved with this male tiger’s physical assessments.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Ashutosh - 07-07-2022
@Roflcopters, Dudhwa doesn’t have a rehabilitation centre like most of the central Indian parks (the construction is ongoing). I am guessing once they realized that this wasn’t the tiger they were looking for, they thought might as well take him to Lucknow zoo and collar him and get his measurements without immobilization as those are very tricky to do in Terai habitats in the open.
So, it took nearly a week for his release. Meanwhile, they actually caught the tigress who had killed many people and as it turns out was the wrongly captured male’s mate. Apparently, she even visited him when he was in the cage. She has been brought to Lucknow zoo as well.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Roflcopters - 07-07-2022
yeah i have been following this case since the operation began, it’s just sad that an innocent tiger was caught and held captive for so long. Dudhwa, Pilibhit and all these adjacent parks need a proper rehabilitation facility as well as trained vets that can handle these situations in the most professional and timely manner.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - AndresVida - 07-07-2022
(07-06-2022, 08:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: when caught he was over 250 kg as per first hand information shared by a very reliable source i cant nameDo you still have that source? Having it would be very helpful for me.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Pckts - 07-07-2022
(07-07-2022, 10:11 PM)AndresVida Wrote:(07-06-2022, 08:49 PM)Pckts Wrote: when caught he was over 250 kg as per first hand information shared by a very reliable source i cant nameDo you still have that source? Having it would be very helpful for me.
It's not from me, it's Siddharth Singh who I quoted.
He's a guide out of Dudhwa
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - acutidens150 - 07-12-2022
(07-02-2022, 02:35 AM)GuateGojira Wrote:Hi Guate,(07-01-2022, 10:14 PM)LonePredator Wrote: Hello @GuateGojira, could you tell at which locations were the top 5 heaviest Amur Tiger specimens found? Including the reliable 300kg ones and also the 254kg one.
And in your data about Amurs, you mentioned that you subtracted 20cm to convert over curves to between pegs but don’t you think this might overestimate the length of big Tigers and underestimate the length of smaller Tigers?
Thanks!
Yes I can. But there is no male of 300 kg acepted as "reliable" in the Amur region.
1. 254 kg - Trans-Amur region.
2. 250 kg "evicerated" (could be c.270 kg "intact") - No location specified.
3. 249.5 kg - Bikin, Ussuri region.
4. 227 kg - North Kirin, Manchuria.
5. 224 kg - Manchuria.
There is the case of the male of 325 kg reported from Kirin province (northeast China) that is still in doubt. The problem is that Slagth et al. (2005) found that record from a French translation (1938) of the original document (1929), and when they checked and English translation (1936) they found that the weight was not mentioned there. So, as they could not found the original document from Baikov of 1929 (the one that was used by Heptner & Sludskii), they leave it as "unreliable".
The correction of 20 cm was proposed by Mazák and is only for the biggest males. If you check in my old tables from 2015 (which needs an update, by the way), only two males were corrected and both were over 325 cm, and both males were not included in the average figure. No other male was adjusted in my tables.
Are the tiger actually considered into two subspecies (Panthera Tigris Tigris on the mainland and Panthera Tigris Sondaica on the islands) or are they distributed into 5/6 subspecies? I'm asking because I've read many papers that had opposing views.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Bitishannah - 07-12-2022
Isn't it more than a week since the tiger predation thread was closed?
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - GuateGojira - 07-12-2022
(07-12-2022, 02:13 PM)acutidens150 Wrote: Hi Guate,
Are the tiger actually considered into two subspecies (Panthera Tigris Tigris on the mainland and Panthera Tigris Sondaica on the islands) or are they distributed into 5/6 subspecies? I'm asking because I've read many papers that had opposing views.
At this moment there is not a consensus. The Cat Specialist Group from the IUCN says that tigers are separated in two subspecies, however they also accepted that there is no concensus as some scientists support the view of more subspecies (Kitchener et al., 2017). Latter Liu et al. (2018) provided genetic evidence that it could be at least 5 subspecies of tigers at this moment.
Please check this link: https://wildfact.com/forum/topic-modern-weights-and-measurements-on-wild-tigers?page=58
There, in posts 863 and 864 a made a long analisys about the issues with the clasification of the subspecies of tigers and I reached to two conclutions:
* What means to have only two subspecies?
It means that we can use Indian tigers to repopulate Indochina, Malaysia and South China. Also provides "value" to the mix captive tigers that populate USA and other countries. While the idea will be good, actually it will create a mess if is not correctly used. For example, most of the captive tigers are a mix between Amur and Bengal tigers, and if we remember, these two populations are the most diverged since the Pleistocene and even under the new clasification they belong to two different conservation units, so the large captive tigers of USA are STILL useless for conservation, but I highly doubth that those places that breed tigers for business are going to check and accept these details from the study. Other thing is that there is still a good and viable population of Indochina tigers in Thailand, so there is no point in trying to use Bengal tigers to populated Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia, while the efforts should be focused in increase and care the tigers from Thailand and, with time, used them to repopulate the other Indochina countries. As we can see, the idea of two tiger subspecies could be the correct one, but sadly is the most problematic based in political and economic purposes.
*This image is copyright of its original author
* What means to have 5/6 subspecies?
It means to continue with the effrorts to save the tigers like they are in this moment, each country manage they own populations and keep the "purity" of they specimens. Captive tigers in managed zoos still have they value and the mix tigers from private owners can't be used for breeding which is good! So, the "5/6 subspecies" scenario could not be realistic in a natural point of view, but is the most realistic in the modern days, based in the current distribution of tigers and will keep the traffic of generic tigers at minimum.
*This image is copyright of its original author
Using all this information, my opinion is that 2 tiger subspecies is the real one, but for the management of the modern tiger populations and to avoid traffic and bussines of "paper" tigers, I think that the best is the usage of the 5/6 subspecies scenario.
Hope this helps.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - peter - 07-12-2022
(07-12-2022, 08:51 PM)Bitishannah Wrote: Isn't it more than a week since the tiger predation thread was closed?
Correct. Contact Lycaon, BAO or Sanjay and ask them to open the thread. Tell 'm I agree.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Charger01 - 07-13-2022
Some large tigers of 21st century.
Over the past year and a half, me as well as others have communicated with many scientists and forest officials from India and nearby countries. A large database for weights of Bengal Tigers has been compiled. Here, I am going to list and make remarks on some of these large tigers that have been documented by scientists and researchers and I have permission to talk about freely. Some of these have been confirmed twice. I will not add direct names of sources to avoid spam.
*(+) sign - exceeded / more than
Following is the list in ascending order:
1. M-125 aka "Madla"
Weight: Exceeded 250 kg scale (adjusted minimum 220-230 kg+)
Age: 8 - 8.5
Capture date: 12-01-2002
Location: Panna Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: Madla exceeded a scale of 250 kg used by Dr. Raghunandan Chundawat. This included around 10 kg weighing bed and est. 20 - 30 kg food. Minimum empty was estimated to be no less than 220 - 230 kg+
2. T-3 aka "Betal"
Weight: 240 kg
Age: 10
Capture date: 13-01-2013
Location: Panna Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: This tiger was captured multiple times. The weight was confirmed by Head of Forest Department in an email.
3. M-91 aka "Old King"
Weight: Exceeded 250 kg scale (adjusted 240 kg+)
Age: 6 - 6.5
Capture date: 11-04-1996
Location: Panna Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: After recovering, he regurgitated the food he had eaten before being darted. To eyes, M-91 appeared fully gorged with 25 - 30 kg meat but the amount in vomit was only 19 kg thus adjusted to 240 kg+ empty
4. MT-3
Weight: 243 kg
Age: 4
Capture date: March of 2020
Location: Mukundra Tiger Reserve
Region: Central-Western India
Remarks: Originally from Ranthambore, he was darted after a maggot infection in his face which hindered him from hunting. A few months later, he died due to illness and it was found he lost over 52 kg in this period.
5. T-04 aka "Mara"
Weight: 250 kg (empty or near empty?)
Age: 2 - 3
Capture date: 29-01-1990
Location: Nagarahole National Park
Region: Southern India
Remarks: A young tiger that was attracted to bait but captured within 10 mins of taking it.
6. Unknown
Weight: 250 kg empty
Age: Adult
Capture date: 2008
Location: Tezpur (near Kaziranga)
Region: North-Eastern India
Remarks: A very large (long and tall) tiger that was rescued after being stuck in a well after annual floods in the region.
7. Unknown
Weight: 250 kg empty
Age: Adult
Capture date: 17-06-2021
Location: Valmiki Tiger Reserve
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: This problem tiger was causing chaos in a village near Valmiki Tiger Reserve. He was said to be hungry for 4-5 days
8. Unknown
Weight: 250 kg+
Age: 6 - 7
Capture date: 28-06-2022
Location: Dudhwa Tiger Reserve
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: This tiger was accidently captured in a trap set up for another tiger. A "highly reliable" source confirmed this tiger weighed more than 250 kg.
9. T-24 aka "Ustad"
Weight: 240 kg / 258 kg empty
Age: 3 / 9
Capture date: 2009 / 16-05-2015
Location: Ranthambore National Park
Region: Central - Western India
Remarks: Ustad was moved to zoo for alleged attacks on humans.
10. "Poochkata"
Weight: 285 kg gorged (adjusted 255 kg)
Age: Adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: Kanha Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: Weighed by Dr. Jhala of Wildlife Institute of India. He was gorged at the time of capture so adjusted value for 30 kg meat, resulting in c. 255 kg empty.
11. Unknown
Weight: 260 kg
Age: Adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: Unknown
Region: Central India
Remarks: In the paper, "Field Guide for Ageing Tigers" by Dr. Jhala, a range of adult tiger weights is given as 200 - 260 kg and Dr. Jhala's unpublished data is quoted. This leads me to believe that this 260 kg tiger is an individual tiger, although I could be wrong.
12. Unknown
Weight: 280 kg (adjusted 260 kg)
Age: Adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: Ranthambore National Park
Region: Central-Western India
Remarks: Large tiger that had recently eaten before being weighed. So adjusted value for 20 kg meat, resulting in c. 260 kg empty.
13. Unknown
Weight: 280 kg (adjusted 270 - 280 kg)
Age: Could be a young adult or adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: -
Region: Central India
Remarks: The source could not comment on if the tiger was empty but confirmed that it was 100% not gorged, meaning the tiger had nothing noticeable amount food in him (little to non). Hence I adjust for 10 kg or less than 10 kg food, resulting in c. 270 kg+ empty, making him one of the biggest felids.
14. M-126
Weight: Exceeded scale of 272 kg
Age: Adult
Capture date: 1984
Location: Chitwan National Park
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: A large tiger captured by Dr. Dinerstein and his team in 1984. The tiger exceeded a weighing scale of 272 kg.
15. M-105 aka "Sauraha"
Weight: Exceeded scale of 272 kg
Age: 11
Capture date: 1980
Location: Chitwan National Park
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: One of the largest tigers of all time, Sauraha exceeded a scale of 272 kg on his 4th capture. As the researchers who captured him described, he was a walking hunk of rippling muscle without an ounce of fat.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Pckts - 07-13-2022
(07-13-2022, 01:18 AM)Khan85 Wrote: Some large tigers of 21st century.
Over the past year and a half, me as well as others have communicated with many scientists and forest officials from India and nearby countries. A large database for weights of Bengal Tigers has been compiled. Here, I am going to list and make remarks on some of these large tigers that have been documented by scientists and researchers and I have permission to talk about freely. Some of these have been confirmed twice. I will not add direct names of sources to avoid spam.
*(+) sign - exceeded / more than
Following is the list in ascending order:
1. M-125 aka "Madla"
Weight: Exceeded 250 kg scale (adjusted minimum 220-230 kg+)
Age: 8 - 8.5
Capture date: 12-01-2002
Location: Panna Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: Madla exceeded a scale of 250 kg used by Dr. Raghunandan Chundawat. This included around 10 kg weighing bed and est. 20 - 30 kg food. Minimum empty was estimated to be no less than 220 - 230 kg+
2. T-3 aka "Betal"
Weight: 240 kg
Age: 10
Capture date: 13-01-2013
Location: Panna Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: This tiger was captured multiple times. The weight was confirmed by Head of Forest Department in an email.
3. M-91 aka "Old King"
Weight: Exceeded 250 kg scale (adjusted 240 kg+)
Age: 6 - 6.5
Capture date: 11-04-1996
Location: Panna Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: After recovering, he regurgitated the food he had eaten before being darted. To eyes, M-91 appeared fully gorged with 25 - 30 kg meat but the amount in vomit was only 19 kg thus adjusted to 240 kg+ empty
4. MT-3
Weight: 243 kg
Age: 4
Capture date: March of 2020
Location: Mukundra Tiger Reserve
Region: Central-Western India
Remarks: Originally from Ranthambore, he was darted after a maggot infection in his face which hindered him from hunting. A few months later, he died due to illness and it was found he lost over 52 kg in this period.
5. T-04 aka "Mara"
Weight: 250 kg (empty or near empty?)
Age: 2 - 3
Capture date: 29-01-1990
Location: Nagarahole National Park
Region: Southern India
Remarks: A young tiger that was attracted to bait but captured within 10 mins of taking it.
6. Unknown
Weight: 250 kg empty
Age: Adult
Capture date: 2008
Location: Tezpur (near Kaziranga)
Region: North-Eastern India
Remarks: A very large (long and tall) tiger that was rescued after being stuck in a well after annual floods in the region.
7. Unknown
Weight: 250 kg empty
Age: Adult
Capture date: 17-06-2021
Location: Valmiki Tiger Reserve
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: This problem tiger was causing chaos in a village near Valmiki Tiger Reserve. He was said to be hungry for 4-5 days
8. Unknown
Weight: 250 kg+
Age: 6 - 7
Capture date: 28-06-2022
Location: Dudhwa Tiger Reserve
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: This tiger was accidently captured in a trap set up for another tiger. A "highly reliable" source confirmed this tiger weighed more than 250 kg.
9. T-24 aka "Ustad"
Weight: 240 kg / 258 kg empty
Age: 3 / 9
Capture date: 2009 / 16-05-2015
Location: Ranthambore National Park
Region: Central - Western India
Remarks: Ustad was moved to zoo for alleged attacks on humans.
10. "Poochkata"
Weight: 285 kg gorged (adjusted 255 kg)
Age: Adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: Kanha Tiger Reserve
Region: Central India
Remarks: Weighed by Dr. Jhala of Wildlife Institute of India. He was gorged at the time of capture so adjusted value for 30 kg meat, resulting in c. 255 kg empty.
11. Unknown
Weight: 260 kg
Age: Adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: Unknown
Region: Central India
Remarks: In the paper, "Field Guide for Ageing Tigers" by Dr. Jhala, a range of adult tiger weights is given as 200 - 260 kg and Dr. Jhala's unpublished data is quoted. This leads me to believe that this 260 kg tiger is an individual tiger, although I could be wrong.
12. Unknown
Weight: 280 kg (adjusted 260 kg)
Age: Adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: Ranthambore National Park
Region: Central-Western India
Remarks: Large tiger that had recently eaten before being weighed. So adjusted value for 20 kg meat, resulting in c. 260 kg empty.
13. Unknown
Weight: 280 kg (adjusted 270 - 280 kg)
Age: Could be a young adult or adult
Capture date: Unknown
Location: -
Region: Central India
Remarks: The source could not comment on if the tiger was empty but confirmed that it was 100% not gorged, meaning the tiger had nothing noticeable amount food in him (little to non). Hence I adjust for 10 kg or less than 10 kg food, resulting in c. 270 kg+ empty, making him one of the biggest felids.
14. M-126
Weight: Exceeded scale of 272 kg
Age: Adult
Capture date: 1984
Location: Chitwan National Park
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: A large tiger captured by Dr. Dinerstein and his team in 1984. The tiger exceeded a weighing scale of 272 kg.
15. M-105 aka "Sauraha"
Weight: Exceeded scale of 272 kg
Age: 11
Capture date: 1980
Location: Chitwan National Park
Region: Terai Arc
Remarks: One of the largest tigers of all time, Sauraha exceeded a scale of 272 kg on his 4th capture. As the researchers who captured him described, he was a walking hunk of rippling muscle without an ounce of fat.
Good list, I’d be curious on a few where you got the information from other than the obvious ones we know about. Also missing quite a few modern day weights, these were just the heaviest ones you know about I’m assuming?
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Jerricson - 07-13-2022
That's a great compilation @Khan85 . But I wish to see the source of 13th specimen mentioned over there. Is that the alleged maneater from Ghunghuti forest ?
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Roflcopters - 07-13-2022
@Jerricson
here’s the source
https://wap.business-standard.com/article-amp/pti-stories/tiger-which-terrorised-people-around-ghunghuti-range-caught-116112101395_1.html
@"Khan85"
Ghunghuti male tiger’s capture date was either November/19/2016 or November/20/2016 based on the original article and the location was ghunghuti range.
RE: Modern weights and measurements on wild tigers - Charger01 - 07-13-2022
@Pckts Thanks. You are correct, this is a list of big tigers only. You may PM me if you want information about any tiger.
@Jerricson @Roflcopters The tiger mentioned in the list is not the one from Ghunguti. I haven't added the Ghunguti tiger yet as we need more information about it.