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+----- Thread: Bear Strength (/topic-bear-strength)
RE: Bear Strength - Pckts - 06-02-2016
Yes he is definitely nervous as well, but he certainly is putting quite a bit of effort into it and its not like the moose is being taken away like they would do with a calf, it is being dragged a small amount at a time. Which if he is nervous, he would want to take this prey to cover immediately so the need for a quick escape with prey in tow would be ideal.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 04:37 AM)Pckts Wrote: Yes he is definitely nervous as well, but he certainly is putting quite a bit of effort into it and its not like the moose is being taken away like they would do with a calf, it is being dragged a small amount at a time. Which if he is nervous, he would want to take this prey to cover immediately so the need for a quick escape with prey in tow would be ideal.
Agreed with the first part of your statement about the nervousness. But there is also an added factor: prey dominance.
As Peter said on an AvA forum, predators love to take their time to secure their meal from other "big-looking" animals (like us), so they'll drag the carcass little by little while noticing our presence simultaneously in order to see our reaction, in case that we (the bear assuming that we are predators) attempt to steal its kill.
If a predator just continues to pull the carcass whilst ignoring the possible opportunists beside it, guess what the opportunistic predators will do? Depending on species, either ambush or head-first attack the defending predator for the carcass. This is another reason why the bear pulled the carcass with its spine arched up, its body lowered to the ground, and mainly with its jaws. It is hard to pull from that postiion, yet it lets the opportunist predator know its there and ready to intimidate in case.
However, if the predator violently shrugs, makes silent, yet jittery body language, and pauses while dragging, the opportunistic predators will more than likely reconsider trying to steal the kill.
This situation is kind of similar to when one stares at a person eating: the person (at least for me) will usually eat little-by-little and look up at instances as if to either say, "What do you want?" or "Don't you dare try to steal my food!" (the latter was more applicable during caveman times, when humans were more protective of their resources.) If no one is watching someone eat, then that hungry person will usually eat faster and with much less interruptions. Similar to the bear, the bystanders, and the moose being dragged.
It might seem, to an average person, that the bear is pulling for dear life. But in reality, the bear is over-exerting his dominance in order to instill fear in potential opportunists.
The best animal feats we see are the ones we don't witness in person, most of the time. Especially predators: they don't like to be watched doing their thing.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
@Pckts,
And yes, according to the one study I posted, as long as the weight is leveled and doesn't become disbalanced (i.e. a barbell, not a moose carcass or hummer tire barbell) then the 80-kg bear can lift 1100-kg with big struggle.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-02-2016
The Bear Almanac by Gary Brown.
STRENGTH - Bears possess enormous strength, regardless of species or size. The strength of a bear is difficult to measure, but observations alone ( bears moving rocks, carrying animal carcasses, removing large logs from the side of a cabin, and digging cavernous holes ) are indicative of incredible power.
A study team at Montana State University in Bozeman, Montana, found that a grizzly bear could treat a 700-pound garbage dumpster like a beach ball, while it took a minimum of two persons just to tip the dumpster. The team concluded the strength of a "calm" grizzly is two-and-a-half to five times that of a human.
No animal of equal size is as powerful. A bear may kill a moose, an elk, or a deer by a single blow to the neck with a powerful foreleg, then lift the carcass in its mouth and carry it for great distances. "The strength... is in keeping with his size," describes Ben East in 'Bears'. "He is very powerfully built, a heavy skeleton overlaid with thick layers of muscle as strong as rawhide rope. He can hook his long, grizzly-like front claws under a slab of rock that three grown men could not lift, and flip it over almost effortlessly... a brown bear took a thousand-pound steer a half mile up an almost vertical mountain, much of the way through alder tangles with trunks three or four inches thick."
Strength and power are not only attributes of large bears but also of the young. The author observed a yearling American black bear searching for insects turn over a flat-shaped rock that was between 310 and 325 pounds "backhanded" with a single foreleg. The bear was captured the following day in a management action and was found to weigh only 120 pounds.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-02-2016
The Bear Almanac by Gary Brown. Shoulder Hump ( Brown Bears ). Brown bears have a hump between their shoulders that is covered with long hair and is normally a reliable means of species identification. The long hair often accentuates the hump when the hackles are raised. This distinguishing feature is a distinctive mass of muscle that provides brown bears with their exceptional digging ability and the powerful striking force of their forepaws.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 02:42 AM)brotherbear Wrote: There is likely a lot of details in those "strongman stunts" we are not aware of. But, I will let that slide... as for the grizzly, I have read about 20 or 30 books within the past several years and have acquired this opinion, and not mine alone... this is not science as the measuring of animal strength is not an exact science... I believe that the bear is the strongest animal of his size and... no bear is pound for pound as strong as a grizzly. I believe that any animal stronger than a grizzly has a substantial size advantage.
grizzly... I am referring of course to a fully-mature male.
animal... I am referring to terrestrial mammals.
*just my personal opinion - where I stand. I'm sure that there are many opposing opinions here and that is alright.
Posts #79 and #80 pretty much sums up why I believe that which I posed above.
RE: Bear Strength - Pckts - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 05:25 AM)Polar Wrote: @Pckts,
And yes, according to the one study I posted, as long as the weight is leveled and doesn't become disbalanced (i.e. a barbell, not a moose carcass or hummer tire barbell) then the 80-kg bear can lift 1100-kg with big struggle.
According to the study, that is an estimate, the 85kg bear could "possibly lift double or triple that weight" but he never did lift it. Also, a deadlift isn't dragging a 2500lb carcass up hill, through grass, trees and branches. I'm basing my opionion off of the actual video of the bear dragging a young moose cow.
Also I really hope you don't think I'm doubting a bears strength, I certainly am not. I'm just doubting the claim that they could drag a ton carcass up a hill while weighing 85kg themselves, that is too far fetched for me.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-02-2016
I would have my doubts myself of a 187 pound yearling grizzly dragging a 2,000 pound carcass up a mountain side. But, I have watched a documentary ( and video of same ) where a full grown grizzly pulled a bison's water-logged carcass up and out of a river. As for the tale of the grizzly dragging the 1,000 pound carcass a half mile up a mountain side; I have no difficulty in believing.
RE: Bear Strength - Pckts - 06-02-2016
A full grown bear achieving such a feat is absolutely possible in my opionion. Ive seen a polar bear drag a walrus bull out of the water, tigers drag gaurs and so on. These are the apex creatures of the world, full grown specimens can astonish.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
(06-02-2016, 07:42 PM)Pckts Wrote:(06-02-2016, 05:25 AM)Polar Wrote: @Pckts,
And yes, according to the one study I posted, as long as the weight is leveled and doesn't become disbalanced (i.e. a barbell, not a moose carcass or hummer tire barbell) then the 80-kg bear can lift 1100-kg with big struggle.
According to the study, that is an estimate, the 85kg bear could "possibly lift double or triple that weight" but he never did lift it. Also, a deadlift isn't dragging a 2500lb carcass up hill, through grass, trees and branches. I'm basing my opionion off of the actual video of the bear dragging a young moose cow.
Also I really hope you don't think I'm doubting a bears strength, I certainly am not. I'm just doubting the claim that they could drag a ton carcass up a hill while weighing 85kg themselves, that is too far fetched for me.
Oh, okay. Sorry for the misunderstanding.
The 80-kg bear can still somehow vertically lift 2500 pounds.
But dragging it up a vertical mountainside while clearing it through pointy branches, trees, and uneven terrain for an extended period of time? Hell no.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
@
I severely doubt that a grizzly is stronger/more powerful than a polar bear/black bear/most bears at weight parity.
Although the brown bear has a larger chest, shorter limbs, thicker hindlimbs, and bigger shoulder area for pushing and short-ranged movements, a polar bear will have a larger forequarter circumference/body area ratio together with longer limbs, thus providing it more pulling strength (similar to big cats), long-ranged movements, and more strength related to arm movements in general.
A polar bear's long and thick neck is utilized more towards dragging prey, whilst that of most other bears is utilized for side-to-side shaking of whatever they have hunted/foraged.
As for paw swipe force? A 50/50 to me. Although, the brown bear has the shoulder and short-arm advantage, a polar bear has thicker arms (more fast-twitch fibers), thus providing for more faster (powerful) swipe, as well as denser arm bones to add to the impact.
Not necessarily stronger, but stronger in different ways.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-02-2016
I think brotherbear posted something about hibernating bears being able to keep their muscles from partial atrophy on this forum a while ago.
This is a long study about the topic:
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-03-2016
I believe that the shoulder hump of the grizzly makes him pound-for-pound the strongest of bears. This is not something I merely thought up myself, but have read from many of those who know the bears, from the old mountain men, the hunters, and those who study them in detail. That big chunk of muscles reinforces the bear's upper-body strength. It is an adaptation from roughly a million years of digging in ( sometimes ) near-concrete-hard ground ( sometimes ) riddled with stones and/or laced with tough roots. This shoulder hump gives the bear greater digging power and a more powerful paw-swipe.
I have started a topic on bear anatomy, but I personally at this time have no quality information to add there.
RE: Bear Strength - Polar - 06-03-2016
(06-03-2016, 01:43 AM)brotherbear Wrote: I believe that the shoulder hump of the grizzly makes him pound-for-pound the strongest of bears. This is not something I merely thought up myself, but have read from many of those who know the bears, from the old mountain men, the hunters, and those who study them in detail. That big chunk of muscles reinforces the bear's upper-body strength. It is an adaptation from roughly a million years of digging in ( sometimes ) near-concrete-hard ground ( sometimes ) riddled with stones and/or laced with tough roots. This shoulder hump gives the bear greater digging power and a more powerful paw-swipe.
I have started a topic on bear anatomy, but I personally at this time have no quality information to add there.
A fully-grown polar bear can have just as big of a shoulder hump as a fully-grown brown bear.
I think I have some/can search some pictures of such polar bears.
There is also a black bear population (forgot the area) where they also had massive shoulder humps. Could be that all ursids back then had considerably massive shoulder humps.
Shoulder hump vs thicker arm, thicker bones, and possibly faster arm strike: a mere 50/50 for me.
RE: Bear Strength - brotherbear - 06-03-2016
The BEAR ALMANAC by Gary Brown - Polar Bear ( Ursus maritimus ) The polar bear living in an arctic ( polar ) climate is the greatest wanderer of all bears and is considered by many as the largest. It is the most carnivorous of modern bears. Yellowish white in color, with a black nose, the polar bear has an elongated body with low, well-developed shoulders; a long, relatively thin but well-developed neck; highly developed hindquarters; and a small head. It has a straight profile, a Roman nose with membranes up to half the length of the toes, and long and thick claws. Four inches of blubber cover the rump and legs ( except the inside of the back legs ).
Brown Bear ( Ursus arctos ) The brown bear is the most diverse bear in size. Its color is variable, though generally brown, and an individual's is relatively uniform. It has a dished face ( dished-in profile ); short, round ears that are small compared to the skull; and long claws on the front paws. With its strong build, great strength, thick head, and large hump over the shoulder, it is the largest omnivore.
The remarkable and distinguished "hump" is actually a mass of muscle that, coupled with long claws, provides the brown bear with great digging ability.