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+----- Thread: Prides of the Masai Mara (/topic-prides-of-the-masai-mara)
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Mwk85 - 08-09-2023
Things aren't looking good for the Marsh Pride young male. 1/4 Bila Shaka males was seen being hostile towards him which isn't unexpected in a pride takeover. Hopefully he'll leave and try to find Halftail before events turn fatal for him.
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - BigLion39 - 08-10-2023
(08-09-2023, 12:53 AM)Mwk85 Wrote: Things aren't looking good for the Marsh Pride young male. 1/4 Bila Shaka males was seen being hostile towards him which isn't unexpected in a pride takeover. Hopefully he'll leave and try to find Halftail before events turn fatal for him.
And it sucks because If I am not mistaken he is last male of Logol/Halftail legacy since his 2 brothers disappeared/killed with Rembo. The 3 were such a promising coalition. IMHO, man was responsible for Rembo and the 2 Brothers disappearance and someone over there in the Mara definitely knows as the Marsh pride is arguable the most famous pride in the world.
My humble speculation on that.
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Cath2020 - 08-12-2023
He was being very submissive at least which might help save him, however, if there is more than one male, things could turn out differently. Seems that the Bila Shaka's are rarely all together patrolling and attempting to kill subs, so that could buy the young ones more time.
Lola's daughter was seen about 800 meters from the pride! I don't follow the lion dynamics of the Maasai Mara in general, but I do try to keep tabs on what's going on with the Marsh Pride occasionally.
She was seen injured and limping a bit, but was moving slowly towards pride members. She could have been attacked and mauled by the Bila Shakas, her own grandfathers. She was dubbed, 'Super Cub,' by Peter Rettig. That cub has lots of will to live and zest for life. Hope can can somehow hang on because she's still not even a year and a half! Tough times ahead as a result, unfortunately.
She disappeared on the 4th, so to be seen now means that she was too weak and lost to find any pride members for about 10 days! Must have been quite injured and now recovering slowly but surely...
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - BigLion39 - 08-18-2023
(08-12-2023, 06:53 PM)Cath2020 Wrote: She disappeared on the 4th, so to be seen now means that she was too weak and lost to find any pride members for about 10 days! Must have been quite injured and now recovering slowly but surely...
KWS and Sheldrick Vets treated her if I am not mistaken and she is doing better thank God!
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Mwk85 - 11-04-2023
Longneck, lioness from the Topi Pride has been killed by herders who illegally bring their cattle into the reserve at night to graze.
Credit: Peter Rettig
*This image is copyright of its original author
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - BigLion39 - 11-06-2023
Yeah, I have no words. I spoke to a citizen of Kenya a few days ago and to say the least it was shocking what he told me. Long story short there are deals and compensation that the tribesmen recieve when lions take their livestock. They have community meetings to hash this out between govt officials and Massai leaders. The guy told me that the Massai leaders basically agree to the terms and all that. He tells me The cattle shepherds don't obey and take it up themselves, retaliate, and kill the lions that take the cattle against the Massai leaders words. Big example is this; now Topi pride matriarch Longneck and a few months ago in Amboselli when they slaughtered 10 lions. He said in Amboselli during that horrible time, a group of armed bandit cattle herders raged off during the meeting and went out,, cornered the 10 lions, and slaughterd them. Its no different here in the Mara and in Serenghetti.
I think they need big consequences to them. Big consequences. Nothing will change without big consequences to these poaching bastards (excuse my french). I have other words for them not appropriate for this forum.
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Mabande - 12-09-2023
Hello, I am new to lion dynamics in Masai Mara and have a question: I read that the Moniko pride has several breakaways. Both the Sankai prides and Hammerkop prides seem to be split from the Moniko pride. Why did they split? Are all the original Sankai lionesses daughters of Lolparpit and Olbarnoti? Also when did they split?
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - BigLion39 - 12-12-2023
(12-09-2023, 01:00 PM)Mabande Wrote: Hello, I am new to lion dynamics in Masai Mara and have a question: I read that the Moniko pride has several breakaways. Both the Sankai prides and Hammerkop prides seem to be split from the Moniko pride. Why did they split? Are all the original Sankai lionesses daughters of Lolparpit and Olbarnoti? Also when did they split?
You've asked about 1 of the most confusing prides and breakaways around! Haha!!! I am definitely not the one who knows but I can tell you that Sanaki and Sanakai Breakaway Lionesses are from Mohican and Romeo2 but could be from other males. If I am not mistaken Porini lioneses are from L and O. Original Moniko Pride supposedly went extinct a few years ago but then I read this year they might have found lioness from the pride. Too confusing to me honestly. Theres like 2 Hammerkop prides which are Sankai, then there's Moniko-Sankai, Sankai.... Way too much conflicting info. Ill try to find out.
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Mabande - 12-12-2023
I tried to find some info myself and as I found in reports of Mara Predator Conservation Programme, all the 4 original Hammerkop lionesses are L and O daughters and sisters of Bila Shaka lions.
Also is the Porini pride another Moniko breakaway pride?
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Lipstick2 - 12-13-2023
Well yes, the original Moniko Pride was extinct by 2018/19 at the latest if i'm remember correctly. All 4 original old Moniko females - Nk'asiogi, Timanoi, Zurura and Olonyori - disappeared by then.
Here are pictures of them by Mara Predator Conservation Programme:
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
*This image is copyright of its original author
They were so old ladies (born around 2004) that were even the mating partners to the 2 old original Moniko pride males known as Mzee&Lolalai (before Lolparpit&Olbarnoti). They've sired together for example the 5 original Iseketa females as their daughters and the former Kichwa males were known as Short-tail and Fang as their sons before 2010.
Then L&O took over the pride from the 2 old males around 2010 and after that were the dominant males for many successful years. During the time they produced so many descendants including such famous coalitions like the 6 Bilashaka males from 2014. (i can see Koshoke in Olonyuri's face btw.)
So yes, the original Sankai females also were the daughters of L&O. For why they broke off from their core/main pride it is a good question but most likely there were some holding and dominating problems around the pride - after L&O had got more pressure from the rival males and they've started to leave the pride so the youngsters also start to hang off probably or were chased by the new males in advance.
Anyway, this is why the Original Moniko Pride has extinct not long after that, while the young females has formed a new pride.
There is also a Moniko-Hammerkop pride which is often also referred as Sankai Breakaway pride.
The Hammerkop pride is ruled by the 4 Lemek males currently (sons of Derre&Barrikoi) while the Sankai pride was ruled by the former 3 - then 2, then now 1 - Sankai pride males right up until now - However this last remaining Sankai pride male - after his brother was killed by the Sala's some months ago - was chased out by the 2 Fig Tree Boys Nyekundo&Osupaat, so most of the Sankai lionesses are hanging out with them recently as it was seen.
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Mabande - 12-13-2023
Thanks
A few more questions:
As you said the original Sankai lionesses are L and O daughters so when we're they born? Are they the previous litter to the one in which the Bila Shaka and Hammerkop lionesses were born?
Also @Lipstick2 do you know anything about Porini pride? Are they also L and O daughters?
I am just recently introduced to Masaai Mara lion dynamics and it seems around 60% of the Masai lions are direct descendants of at least one of these 7 legends: Notch, Lolparpit, Olbarnoti, Lipstick, Blackie, Olerai and Olekiti
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Lipstick2 - 12-14-2023
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: As you said the original Sankai lionesses are L and O daughters so when we're they born?I don't know that exactly but sometime in the first half of the 2010's.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: Are they the previous litter to the one in which the Bila Shaka and Hammerkop lionesses were born?The current Hammerkop pride which we're talking about - also known as Moniko-Hammerkop or Sankai Breakaway - are the breakaways of the original Sankai pride and not of the original Moniko pride directly. In the mid 2010's the Sankai pride was taken over by the 2 Croton Island Males Olerai&Oleikiti and their daughters are these current breakaway lionesses, because when Frank2 & Jesse2 & their 3rd brother took over Sankai pride they were hiding and broke away from them and then established themselves as a new group around 2019.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: do you know anything about Porini pride?I haven't heard much about them lately since Frank2 and Jesse2's death and after 2 of the Black Rock Boys Olobor&Oloshipa chased them for a long time along with the Fig Tree Pride (killed some of their cubs) probably none of the Porini cubs has survived.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: Are they also L and O daughters?At this point we can talk about two different Porini groups as far as i know: there were the original/core Porini lionesses whose origin is an obscure to me, and there is/was the Porini Breakaway group by 2 lionesses who were/are the daughters of Maridadi&Kaka.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: it seems around 60% of the Masai lions are direct descendants of at least one of these 7 legends: Notch, Lolparpit, Olbarnoti, Lipstick, Blackie, Olerai and OlekitiCould be possible, but it seems a bit high percentage to me.
Furthermore don't forget about Lolparpit&Olbarnoti's 3 possibly half-brothers Cheza,Sala&Junior from the original Ridge pride who were fathers of the 4 Musketeers. The original fathers of these 5 were the 2 Old Ridge Pride Males from early of the 2000's so they could hold a very high % of current Mara bloodlines.
Finally the legendary 4'km lineage by Blackie&Lipstick and their 2 brothers also had played a very significant role in Mara's lion population, but just keep thinking how their gorgeus father(s)' role might have had in the Triangle in the 2000's (if u search back in the Other Mara's male coalitions topic u can find my post of him).
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Redroadmale - 01-26-2024
Anyone knows what coalition control the black rock pride?
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - lionuk - 01-27-2024
(01-26-2024, 09:26 AM)Redroadmale Wrote: Anyone knows what coalition control the black rock pride?
Oloibor and Manywele
RE: Prides of the Masai Mara - Franco - 02-07-2024
(12-14-2023, 03:53 AM)Lipstick2 Wrote:(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: As you said the original Sankai lionesses are L and O daughters so when we're they born?I don't know that exactly but sometime in the first half of the 2010's.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: Are they the previous litter to the one in which the Bila Shaka and Hammerkop lionesses were born?The current Hammerkop pride which we're talking about - also known as Moniko-Hammerkop or Sankai Breakaway - are the breakaways of the original Sankai pride and not of the original Moniko pride directly. In the mid 2010's the Sankai pride was taken over by the 2 Croton Island Males Olerai&Oleikiti and their daughters are these current breakaway lionesses, because when Frank2 & Jesse2 & their 3rd brother took over Sankai pride they were hiding and broke away from them and then established themselves as a new group around 2019.
Please let me know if I understood this right while also adding a realization if I understood correctly.
Are you saying that the daughters of Olerai & Oleikiti escaped the Olope & Olbarikoi takeover? If so only the original Sankai lionesses were taken over by Olope and Olbarikoi and these lionesses are the daughters of Lolparpit and Olbarnoti correct? Which in turn would mean that the Sankai Males fathered by Olerai & Oleikiti are half brothers to The Sankai/Moniko males fathered by Olope & Olbarikoi on their mothers side?
Even more interesting and incredible is that if this is true, this not only means that the 3 sankai/moniko males have the legend Jesse the nomad outlaw
blood, but they have Lolparpits as welll, making Lolparpit and Olbarnoti their grandfather from their mothers side?
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: do you know anything about Porini pride?I haven't heard much about them lately since Frank2 and Jesse2's death and after 2 of the Black Rock Boys Olobor&Oloshipa chased them for a long time along with the Fig Tree Pride (killed some of their cubs) probably none of the Porini cubs has survived.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: Are they also L and O daughters?At this point we can talk about two different Porini groups as far as i know: there were the original/core Porini lionesses whose origin is an obscure to me, and there is/was the Porini Breakaway group by 2 lionesses who were/are the daughters of Maridadi&Kaka.
(12-13-2023, 08:56 PM)Mabande Wrote: it seems around 60% of the Masai lions are direct descendants of at least one of these 7 legends: Notch, Lolparpit, Olbarnoti, Lipstick, Blackie, Olerai and OlekitiCould be possible, but it seems a bit high percentage to me.
Furthermore don't forget about Lolparpit&Olbarnoti's 3 possibly half-brothers Cheza,Sala&Junior from the original Ridge pride who were fathers of the 4 Musketeers. The original fathers of these 5 were the 2 Old Ridge Pride Males from early of the 2000's so they could hold a very high % of current Mara bloodlines.
Finally the legendary 4'km lineage by Blackie&Lipstick and their 2 brothers also had played a very significant role in Mara's lion population, but just keep thinking how their gorgeus father(s)' role might have had in the Triangle in the 2000's (if u search back in the Other Mara's male coalitions topic u can find my post of him).