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+----- Thread: Othawa Pride (/topic-othawa-pride)
RE: Othawa Pride - T_Ferguson - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 03:48 AM)Vengeous Wrote: So, not sure how many people here are on the Wild Lions of Africa FB group, but here's Joanne Stewart's latest update:
"I know a lot of people have been concerned about the missing Othawa lioness. I have seen a lot of speculation going on about this. About three weeks ago the girls were chased by other lions. As you know one has been seen a few times now and she’s safe. The other Othawa with the clipped ear is the one that hadn’t been seen. I was given information that she was seen on Friday morning in Singita on the border with Dulini and was seen again tonight around the same area. I believe this information to be true. Hopefully pictures will be posted soon and the girls will reunite"
When she mentions Dulini sharing a border with Singita, I assume she's referring to the Exeter Leadwood property adjacent to Singita (which was bought by Dulini). She claims this information came from trusted people, but let's wait and see.
I don't do Facebook sadly, which makes my life more difficult for these things. Is that Leadwood property north or south in Dulini? Either way, that's a VERY bad location to be a sub adult female lion alone.
RE: Othawa Pride - Vengeous - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 04:13 AM)T_Ferguson Wrote:North of the river I believe.(05-14-2024, 03:48 AM)Vengeous Wrote: So, not sure how many people here are on the Wild Lions of Africa FB group, but here's Joanne Stewart's latest update:
"I know a lot of people have been concerned about the missing Othawa lioness. I have seen a lot of speculation going on about this. About three weeks ago the girls were chased by other lions. As you know one has been seen a few times now and she’s safe. The other Othawa with the clipped ear is the one that hadn’t been seen. I was given information that she was seen on Friday morning in Singita on the border with Dulini and was seen again tonight around the same area. I believe this information to be true. Hopefully pictures will be posted soon and the girls will reunite"
When she mentions Dulini sharing a border with Singita, I assume she's referring to the Exeter Leadwood property adjacent to Singita (which was bought by Dulini). She claims this information came from trusted people, but let's wait and see.
I don't do Facebook sadly, which makes my life more difficult for these things. Is that Leadwood property north or south in Dulini? Either way, that's a VERY bad location to be a sub adult female lion alone.
RE: Othawa Pride - T I N O - 05-14-2024
Rangers are not hiding any kind of information to us to protect the Plains Camp males, after all they’re just lions, and they do what lions do and guests know it. Only people that don't understand the lion's behavior can get angry by that behavior. They’re animals, not persons
NOTE to all: Remember that non-stop discussion is out of the question as we pointed out in the past, especially when such kind of debate starts accusing other people(s). Not in this case, just a reminder
RE: Othawa Pride - Mapokser - 05-14-2024
@Vengeous I hope it's true and it is her, but if this comes from guides I'm skeptical of their ability to distinguish the 2 females. If some fans saw photos or videos then it's more likely to be true as depending on the fan they might be more reliable to identify the bigger Othawa.
@GhostCatP-22 I'm not turning this into an angry argument... Admittedly so I may be a little bias since Othawas are my favorite lions and I've been following them closely throughout all the tragedies of the last few years, and I'm not particularly fond of the PCM, especially now not long after they killed Chela, but I speculated things based on facts and didn't give false information, but was clear when I said it was my take/opinion/speculation.
I also didn't accuse anyone from lying, I said guides may be holding info on the lions who chased the Othawas so to "protect" their resident males' reputation, and said I don't believe they can so easily tell one Othawa from the other, so while they may believe they are seeing 2, it might be the same one ( the smaller one with "normal ears" ).
The apparent news of sightings of the missing sub are promising though so let's see.
RE: Othawa Pride - Mapokser - 05-14-2024
@T I N O guides have taken upon themselves to not share certain info before for several reasons.
Just weeks ago we had Willem Botha saying that they never released many things on the Mapogo because it was too disturbing. The case of Dreadlocks' death for instance was only revealed 5 years after his death, to give another example.
Not long ago there was also also a lot going on with Olobor's death, regarding a few guides and their view of the situation.
I've always been on the guides' side and a critic of conspiracies and stuff, they do a wonderful job and don't own us anything, they don't have to share if they don't want to.
But things aren't fully black and white, they have their reasons to not name the lions that chased the Othawas, they could have named them, and have named them multiple times in the past, but didn't now. Are they obligated to? Not at all, but I think it's fair to mention that they didn't told us, obviously because they had a reason not to.
Anyway I didn't thought this was turning into a heated discussion, so I apologize if it seemed this way and I'll drop the argument if the mods think this is out of hand.
RE: Othawa Pride - Mwk85 - 05-14-2024
I reached out to Savanna recently about any potential footage being available on the other lioness since she was reportedly seen on different occasions but I was informed none was available. Reason given was that "both sightings happened at night". Didn't want to press for more information as I'm sure they're already swamped by questions, so that's all I have at the moment.
RE: Othawa Pride - Duco Ndona - 05-14-2024
We only know for sure that they are separated right now. I doubt the guides themselves know what exactly happened.
The PCmales and Ximhungwe pride are the top suspects due to their past history. But thats about it.
But for all we know it may also have been the whole, Nym following Skorro to the pride scenario we have been worried about or simply a hunt gone bad, hyenas, sickness or one of the girls entering estrus.
Ultimately we have to wait and hope for the best.
RE: Othawa Pride - GhostCatP-22 - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 08:52 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We only know for sure that they are separated right now. I doubt the guides themselves know what exactly happened.
The PCmales and Ximhungwe pride are the top suspects due to their past history. But thats about it.
But for all we know it may also have been the whole, Nym following Skorro to the pride scenario we have been worried about or simply a hunt gone bad, hyenas, sickness or one of the girls entering estrus.
Ultimately we have to wait and hope for the best.
Isn’t there a large hyena population in sabi sands especially western sector? I think I read that in a past thread.
RE: Othawa Pride - T I N O - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 04:44 AM)Mapokser Wrote: @T I N O guides have taken upon themselves to not share certain info before for several reasons.Well, about Dreadlocks death that’s pretty true. His demise was a mystery for years, which made many guys to upon speculations that he was poached which resulted to be true years later.
Just weeks ago we had Willem Botha saying that they never released many things on the Mapogo because it was too disturbing. The case of Dreadlocks' death for instance was only revealed 5 years after his death, to give another example.
Not long ago there was also also a lot going on with Olobor's death, regarding a few guides and their view of the situation.
I've always been on the guides' side and a critic of conspiracies and stuff, they do a wonderful job and don't own us anything, they don't have to share if they don't want to.
But things aren't fully black and white, they have their reasons to not name the lions that chased the Othawas, they could have named them, and have named them multiple times in the past, but didn't now. Are they obligated to? Not at all, but I think it's fair to mention that they didn't told us, obviously because they had a reason not to.
Anyway I didn't thought this was turning into a heated discussion, so I apologize if it seemed this way and I'll drop the argument if the mods think this is out of hand.
RE: Othawa Pride - Mapokser - 05-14-2024
@Mwk85 more reason to be suspicious that it'd be easy to identify the second one, as it was in the night.
RE: Othawa Pride - Rabubi - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 09:20 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote:I believe so. Generally, spotted hyenas are no slouches whatsoever but the hyenas in western SS seem to be especially bold towards lions.(05-14-2024, 08:52 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We only know for sure that they are separated right now. I doubt the guides themselves know what exactly happened.
The PCmales and Ximhungwe pride are the top suspects due to their past history. But thats about it.
But for all we know it may also have been the whole, Nym following Skorro to the pride scenario we have been worried about or simply a hunt gone bad, hyenas, sickness or one of the girls entering estrus.
Ultimately we have to wait and hope for the best.
Isn’t there a large hyena population in sabi sands especially western sector? I think I read that in a past thread.
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 09:48 PM)Mapokser Wrote: @Mwk85 more reason to be suspicious that it'd be difficult to identify the second one, as it was in the night.
Until we know more, which right now we know very little, we all need to refrain from spreading conspiracy theories. That is not helpful at the moment. If we know specific factual information, then I ask that it be shared here, thanks!
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 09:20 PM)GhostCatP-22 Wrote:(05-14-2024, 08:52 PM)Duco Ndona Wrote: We only know for sure that they are separated right now. I doubt the guides themselves know what exactly happened.
The PCmales and Ximhungwe pride are the top suspects due to their past history. But thats about it.
But for all we know it may also have been the whole, Nym following Skorro to the pride scenario we have been worried about or simply a hunt gone bad, hyenas, sickness or one of the girls entering estrus.
Ultimately we have to wait and hope for the best.
Isn’t there a large hyena population in sabi sands especially western sector? I think I read that in a past thread.
When these girls were three, and Sassy was still with us, but she was not with the three girls, they had a run in with some hyenas, and the youngsters, less than 18 months old, stood their ground, growled at the hyenas, and tried to fend them off of a kill. I would assume that they have only gotten smarter in the years since, in how to deal with the hyenas, though at this point anything is possible, speculation is rampant, and we have very little in the way of facts.
RE: Othawa Pride - Mapokser - 05-14-2024
Yeah let's wait, I might be just way too worried and suspicious out of bias as I never had much hope for Othawas ( my favorites ) and now they're almost there, almost adults, so the thought of losing them is hard to cope with, though it's part of following the dynamics.
And obviously, regardless of personal feelings and human emotions, PCM, Ximhungwe or any other lions are just being lions, we can't blame them for doing what they do, regardless if we like it or not.
RE: Othawa Pride - BA0701 - 05-14-2024
(05-14-2024, 11:02 PM)Mapokser Wrote: Yeah let's wait, I might be just too way too worried and suspicious out of bias as I never had many hope for Othawas ( my favorites ) and now they're almost there, almost adults, so the thought of losing them is hard to cope with, though it's part of following the dynamics.
And obviously, regarsless o personal feelings and human emotions, PCM, Ximhungwe or any other lions are just being lions, we can't blame them for doing what they do, regardless if we like it or not.
I'm not questioning your motives, I understand them, we just don't want to play a role in perpetuating rumors, without any facts to back them up. Once we get some facts on what has transpired, we can discuss them. We can speculate generally, since that is what so much of following these creatures involves, we just need to be careful placing blame for circumstances we don't yet have information about. Thank you, for understanding, my friend!